Linn Klimax DS. How good is it?

Thanks for your feedback. That is what I intend to do. But before I try to convince a nearby dealer to lend me one for a weekend or so, I want to get as much educated feedback as possible. If this is good I will get into that stage.

Problem I see with Linn and digital palyback (only from reading and listening to other users, so limited validity) is that they felt behind digital reproduction big time with the CD12, compared to similar priced devices. That was making them loose loyal long time clients. Hence the move to the streaming devices and the decision of discontinuing CDPs. Makes sense to me. Agressive move backed by some good marketing, claiming DSs are just the best digital sources regardless of price out there, period.

Now I would love to hear as many opinions and feedback as possible here.

Best
Eli

I love the Slim devices gears. I myself have a system of 6 running all over my house. Also listened to the transporter for a while. Although I do think it is a very good piece of hardware, it felt quite short of the performance of my Esoteric X01-D2. It's convenient and its cool, but I was looking for a streaming solution that could deliver superior performance than my current digital source.

It won't sound 8 times better, that's for sure. Exactly the same as the transporter does not sound 10 times better than the Classic or the Duet. That's not really the point of what I'm trying to learn. I would like to now how it compares to other digital sources at similar or superior price tags, and how would one describe the sounds it produces.

Also if someone has experience regarding integration and synergy of this Linn device with other non Linn system.

Riffer, yes that's what I read. Also I think there is a number of programs now that would let you control it form the iphone or ipod touch. By the way, it you own a transporter or other slim devices gear, and an iphone or ipod touch, check out the iPeng program to control it over wifi. It is really cool. Better than the controller, which is very good already, actually, at a fraction of the cost.

Sarcher, how would you define dynamics and bass extension and punch of your DS? Compared to other digital sources you have hear? It think the Linn is probably very detailed and probably warm too, but do you fell the sound has a tendency of being a bit short regarding life-like performance?

THanks
Eli

Perrew, indeed. Actually the sweet spot from slim devices logitech, IMPO, is by far, far, a Receiver with the Ipeng. Great sounds, excellent control, cool and convenient, for under 150 euros...!

TDA2200, thanks for extensive feedback. You know what? I do agree with the duet (actually the receiver is the music player). This not only sounds better than SB3, but also it is very close to the transporter in performance....if not superior. it is a hell of a player for the money. Probably one of the best cost/performance ratios I know out there in digital playback, period. A hell of a player. I did A/B comparations with several CDPs worth in the thousands... not that much behind, and in specific aspects of the music reproduction even better than some of the CDPs. Really, I do recommend it. For just 130 Euros, you need to hear to believe this piece.

Anyway, interesting all your feedback on the DS's. Good news it seems. Not sure what you want to say by liking better the Klimax only if you are a music lover vs a hifi person. Can you please elavorate this a bit?

Also I would like to know what other digital sources, CDPs in this case, are you familiar with and listened to before the DSs? How would they compare to the later.

Lastly, is there an specific music type where the Klimax exceeds over others (classical vs jazz, vocals, live performances...)

Thanks in advance
Eli

Ok, so I did finally go for an audition and placed a deposit at local dealer to get the Klimax home for a weekend tryout. Very nice guy and excellent service and advice.

Was the unit good? Yes very good, I think I can even say excellent. Did I go for it...? No. I did extensive listening sessions. THe unit was well burned in as per dealers saying. TO begin with, I think my Esoteric is better sounding. Very different sounds though. Linn is very very detailed, (as detailed but not more than the Esoteric), very very fast, precise, almost analytical. In all those fields I don't think one player exceeded the other. Maybe the Linn was a bit more analytical, in a good sense, but if so only marginally.

In terms of scene, also as good as Esoteric; excellent, although not better neither. Open wide, good 3D placement, separation and location... all great, very much as Esoteric.

Now where did it failed, in my opinion and in my system? In "weight", texture and bass extension and presence (although bass was precise and tight). Sound was just too thin and texture of instruments and vocals were just short of expectations, and not up to Esoteric performance. Dynamics were there, but the above made the listening experience less engaging.

Do not get me wrong. It was not by a huge margin, nor the Linn was bad at all. But it was surely audible. You could listen to a track on the Linn and say, excellent. Than you paly it right away on the Esoteric and you could hear the difference with not too much problems.

ALso did A/B blind test and the results were the same.

It was a bit of a disapointment, cos I really wanted this unit to be a killer given convenience of use, hi rez downliads and the like. Bit I did have to admit, at least in my case it made no sense to go for it. I would likely find myself using the Esoterc most of the time short afterwards.

maybe it has to do with system synergy, personal tastes or a mix of it. Who knows. Also maybe listenig was too short only 3 days, although I spend long hours each day, to the joy of my wife... Also the fact that I have Synergistic Research holograph D on Esoteric and the stock on Linn did not help, but that can not be fixed since the Linn won't accept any aftermarket PC....

Anyway just thought I could share my findings and experience with you if they are of help to any.Others may have different experiences or findings, but after all, that is what this is all about:synergy with rest of system, room et all, personal tastes... In my case, I can say this is not the finest source out there, as per Linns claims. Esoteric X01-D2 is better, and surely there a many others out there as well. But it is a very good source. Just do not feel good enough for that money moreoever considering is only "half" a solution (no transport mechanism, so for the money it should deliver more on the DAC than similar priced complete transport DAC players.

Will keep searching for a high end streaming solution that can beat my Esoteric, ideally on an ethernet interface.

Perrew, did some search on the APL you advised. Initially it looked good, with great reviews and the like. But then found a bunch of forums and people who say they send this aparently one man company, money and units and never got back neither one of them for years! Now not sure if that is the case or not, but there are many many many of this claims all over. I think I will not take the risk of shipping such an expensive unit, to a company with this reputation, and of course not a dime in advance.... Too much risk regardless of it being true or not. I guess your experience is different, and again I have no experience with this company at all, so can not say anything good or bad. I was just shocked of all hte sh*t I read out there in the web... Is all over the place., really.

Changster, I'm not an expert really, but I've done some reading. Seems Ethernet has some advantages.

First you can have your server far, far away from the DAC (like in another room even if you want). Distance does not affect the data sent, since it's own design is for such an specification. The transfer of data from the hard-drive over Ethernet using TCP-IP ensures the integrity of the data delivered to the DACs. it is easy to configure a totally silence system. All you need to place is the DAC at your rack.

According to Linn webpage, on the subject:

The clock used in the DACs provides the master timing reference to the entire digital path.
It is worth noting that this architecture where the data is ‘pulled’ from the network using the clock at the DAC is inherently better than systems where the data is transported by SPDIF or USB links, where the DAC has to ‘lock’ its clock to that at the sending end.

I've read you can achieve this with some short of USB but at a cost. You need your PC or apple near, yo need extra hardware on the computer, configuration an the like.

Also the cost of the cables are important. A Cat 5+ cable is all you need. Even if you want to go Cat 6, these are quite cheap.

Again the above is not from personal experience or particular knowledge, so if anyone knows better, let us know. Personally only have done streaming using ethernet. Now this is very very easy and convenient I can say, and sounds great. Just plug in the ethernet CAT 6 cable into the DAC, turn on your server (NAS or regular PC or MAC, over Linux, WHS or whatever), wherever this is located, and you are set to go.

What I do not understand is why there are only a very limited number of manufactures who do not include ethernet streaming on their devices. For what I know, Linn, Logitech with Transporter and the rest of family, Sonos and not too many more. For sure none of the popular or regarded a high end DAC manufacturers. They seem to prefer any other alternative, you name it.

I wonder if we will start to see these kind of solutions become more popular among these kind of brands in the near future.

Perrew, thanks for sharing your experience. I do think, if the unit from Alex is as good as some claim, looking also at the specs, the fact it can now do streaming wireless and the mods he seems to do, like 10 32 bits DAC per channel of very high quality, upgrades on outputs etc, I would love to have such an upgrade on my esoteric. But the fact you had to wait a full year (WOW) for this to get it done, does for sure turn me down. How could you wait a full year, with the money gone, and I assume your unit also gone and not gone nuts? The Esoteric is 16.000 euros, plus whatever you paid for the upgrade. That is a lot of money to have it on the hook for a whole year while reading all kind of things over the web. I guess it comes down to personal views and perceptions.

Perrew, as tempting as the product may sound and look, I think I will pass. I can find many people out there saying they sent units and cash and never got either back, after several years...! Others did get it back after a long wait, and others, like you had no problem. Some even suggest they were running a punzzy scheme... Who nows the truth of this, but for me it is just too much risk. If I lived in the west US coast (although seems they are now located in Bulgaria) I would maybe visit personally. But being far away, both from BUlgaria or LA dont feel like taking the risk. . It's a shame as it does sound good, but I've rather have a less good, but still excellent player with a 100% probability, that a XX% prob of getting even the best player. 1-XXX% chance of loosing it all....