Line Stage Preamps that blew you away $2500 Edition

@oddiofyl  that’s the reason I’m looking to move on from mine. I like what I have but I feel like it doesn’t elevate the system. 
 

been looking at used Herron, Hornshoppe, Supratek, Backert. I run subs so 2 sets of outs are a necessity unless there’s another way around that.

@jackd  tell me more about the Supratek?

@unsound  either or.

@milpai  I’ve seen a 1.1 and debated it. You’re right though, Rhumbas don’t show up often if ever.

@mitch2  thanks. To your ears does the Hattie achieve that “band/artist in your room” sense of presence? Do you feel the sound has adequate weight and dimension?

@unsound  I’ve seen the SF2 used recently. Was going to ask about that.

@mitch2  wow. So tell me how it sounds. Super interested.

@oddiofyl  100% agree and I feel like that’s where I’m at. I like my line stage but it’s the only piece that hasn’t “wow’d me” from its install. I feel like a great line stage for the money is where I can make that leap.

@charles7  I believe he is referring to this http://sanderssoundsystems.com/products/preamplifier

@avanti1960  I had been looking at the RP-1 but read the RP5 is better. The RH-5 is interesting but without a second set of variable outs I’m not sure how I’d run subs. 
Rogue is a brand I’m interested I for sure. Too bad Sutherland doesn’t make a line stage! 

Does Primare fit into this conversation? Just curious

Anyone know anything about Brown Audio Labs? Seem to be tube based and seems a great deal for the money.

Someone SHF mentioned them which I the first I’d heard of them.

https://www.brownaudiolabs.com

@dsper  I’ve been interested in the Don Sachs for a while. Nothing but great words spoken about it.

Thanks @donsachs  Merry Christmas!

@mrdecibel interesting. I don’t claim to be technically proficient but I’m curious as to what it was about the transformer coupled designs you didn’t like.

as for “do I want a passive” the answer is I dont know. I, personally don’t care about fidelity and neutrality as much as musicality and “it just sounds good to me”. My attraction to tubes is that I can color the sound to how I like it, but the b*tch about tubes is that they aren’t cheap and wear out.

I mentioned Hattor upstream as it had both passive and active stages. The active stages had low gain (I have way too much) and I thought that being able to remove the attenuators would be a good thing.

The last few days my system has sounded amazing. For whatever reason this morning there’s static in the left speaker. These tubes have maybe 20 hours in them. Awesome. I give up on tubes.

@mikem 

 Its all part of their mystique.. 

Yeah well about 40% of the total listening time I do in a year is done in the next 2 weeks and so now I risk have no music whatsoever. Seems like its not worth the BS, I don't know.

@tyray 

It’s hard to explain until you here it. It’s an after effect of the sublime, spooky quietness of The Truth preamp. Owners of The Truth preamp know what I’m talking about.

Yeah and that has me curious but it seems like people mention passives have a lock of soul and also bass and warmth. All 3 are things I really like. Driving, propulsive bass makes me happy. I frankly don't care about fidelity, I just want good sound. The word "spooky" comes up often with that particular unit and admittedly it has me curious. I have been also looking at the Hattor as it also have an active stage so I can have both.

@tyray 

I completely understand what you are talking about, but just to be clear The Truth is not a passive preamp, it is an active preamp with no gain. About 6 months ago I sold my (2) Power Sound Audio V1801’s subwoofers and ain’t nobody more of a bass head than me.

A couple days ago I picked up some cables to run the subs off the mains and its much more involving. So, in reality I don't need the 2nd outputs anymore. haha.

Oh well. I'd be happy if I could figure out why my current preamp eats tubes or if I am just the unluckiest person buying tubes these days.

Thanks

@tyray My subs are now pig tailed off the speaker terminals of my mains. So banana from amp to lower posts -> spade jumpers to upper posts -> these cables banana from upper posts to RCA in on the subs.

He said: "1500 hours sounds pretty normal for tube life. We supply the chinese tubes and they last 500 hours and the Mullard 4004 about 1500-2000 hours".

@rob2rc21  I have the Quicksilver now (non remote) and it blasts through tubes in 6 months, hence this thread. If I could find a solution I'd keep it. Otherwise its $100 in NOS tubes every 6 months (although the current ones are dumping after 30 hours).

@tyray  Its more or less how REL does it. I like the change. As for the Quicksilver I don't know where to go after. If I knew a solid state that sounded the same I'd have it already. My fear with passives is sounding thin, otherwise I have my eye on one that does both active and passive.

@oddiofyl  actually yes! I do have a set of Mullard 6201’s that have lasted. I replaced them with the 4024’s as I wanted a slightly warmer sound. Why would the 6201’s be so much more robust though? I’m genuinely curious.

@abd1 funny I,too was looking at the Kinki preamp. I’ve been super interested in the Holo Serene (used).

As for Don Sachs, I’m on the list but there’s no guarantee my number gets called. He’s semi retired and so he mentioned possibly next spring. Was pondering holding out until then to see if I get lucky or just research it to the point of madness and take a stab at something now.

@oddiofyl  yes well originally Don's preamp was the end game. So I feel like I'll wait and see if that happens, the question is what to do in the meantime. Gotta be better than waiting on Decware haha

@oddiofyl  I am also considering Supratek as it has adjustable gain and the Sachs has even more than my current (16db which is way too much).

@mrdecibel  SInce you mentioned it on the last page I have been playing with configs on their site. I like that they want input and out impedance (I realize I don't know some of those for my gear). I would absolutely consider that one, especially for the price and praise but as I said, I worry about what my system really sounds like LOL. I have been trying to locate my SYS and put it back in the mix to get an idea because as you said, being on 24/7 and not having mountains of gain is  a great thing. Part of me wants to chance it and do the 2 input with the Walker Mod and then see what happens but not sure. I have the money but I like having the money (haha). I'd love to borrow one for a week and try it out though.

@mrdecibel  No doubt the SYS isn't in that league, I feel like a passive is saying "this is your system without make up" and I'm not sure I want to know that yet lol. I was trying to find mine and plug it in and see what my pig really looks like with no make up lol.

@tweak1 @palasr Yes the Hattor is very interesting. Passive and gain stage., I am very seriously considering this as well as the Denafrips Athena and Holo Serene. The Athena really excites me after reading more into it. Its a buffer with unity gain. The bummer is I'm all single ended (although my DAC is a $100 Topping so getting the same one with XLR is not a huge deal as I don't listen hard to it, its for TV and Movies).

I am probably not going the tube route as I have too much gain so a buffer stage and/or unity gain seems the way to go.

@markusthenaimnut  at a reported 26db of gain thats a bad decision. I have way too much with a pre that outputs 18. I bet it sounds amazing and I did read extensively into it. Not going tube most likely but thanks.

@mikem  Thanks and thats interesting. I fear that passives will leave the cold.

@mikem  I don't disagree.

I don't care about fidelity or neutrality, I care about sounding "good" to my ears. The problem with any preamp. passives included is that its a stab in the dark. I can't seem to find my SYS (may have loaned it out and forgot about it) as I wanted to run it and see, overall, what things sound like. I can tell you that in my current tubed stage, the warmest tubes I've had (Mullard 4024's) were my favorite and even the 6201's (slightly less warm) were less engaging for me. So it seems to me that my system is neutral to cool excluding the line stage (although my amp is known to be on the warm side) and that the warmest its sounded was the happiest I was with it.

So at this point I am contemplating buy another SYS (hate to do that obviously) to get a feel for what the overall tonality is (though yes I know it isn't matched to my components or have transformers so will be dry and thin to a degree). I can say for certain that extreme low gain/unity gain/passive is where I'm headed as I have way too much again already. Outside of that I am falling down the rabbit hole with speed.

Sorry all, had to take a break as all the research was settingmy hair on fire. I read a review for the Denafrips Athena which compared it extremely favorably to the W4S stage 2. Seems that, according to 6 moons (who loves to word salad the sh*t out of everything), they are equals with the exception of their voicing and emphasis on ASD. It’s never explicitly stated but he seems to allude that the W4S emphasizes the attack of the sound where the Athena emphasizes the sustain so it’s attack is slightly rounded but with a fuller sound.

I have to admit that a fuller sound and unity gain/no gain is really peaking my interest.

the biggest knock, in my eyes, with the Sachs, Rogue, Supratek, etc is the amount of gain. My current has 18, my amp 30 and I’m driving 99db speakers (with 12db attenuators in line). Besides being hard in the tubes I feel like, and correct me if my observation is not as cut and dry as I perceive it, the gain exposes ANY noise a tube makes especially once a few hundred hours are on it. So it makes thing frustrating. When I flick it on I dread it popping on and there will be scratching/static/ etc.

Lately my current one has been flawless. And it sounds great. Admittedly the whole tube thing has just frustrated me.

I made the thread open ended so future people’s will find it and read the wealth of info here. It’s true the thread was to help me find MY new preamp but this way it will continue to benefit others for the foreseeable future.

that said I purchased a used preamp and while it’s been 3 hours now since I got it up and running I am really enjoying it. The sound is different than anything I’ve heard before so my ears are adjusting. The Denafrips Athena is something! Clocking at 35ish pounds it’s pretty…..over built. I read and reread the reviews at 6 Moons and Audio Beatnik repeatedly so felt I had a really good idea what to expect and I’d say their thoughts on the sound are spot on. That’s all I wanted to add but don’t let it stop anyone from adding their opinions.

@tyray yes my system has had way too much gain (99db speakers) so I didn’t need any more. The unity gain works great and is dead quiet. That’s a first for me. The 12db attenuators are out of the system. It goes louder than I can play it so I’m good with that. The sound is very much like 6 Moons described, it doesn’t emphasize the attack but rather the sustain which gives it a more natural, analog sound vs the more common attack focused sound. It takes getting used to for sure. It reminds me of when I moved on from my then current interconnects and went to Audio Envy Studio Prestige. My first thought was they were rolled off, but listening more reveals they aren’t , they just don’t accentuate them.

Still early days but it sounds the way I thought it would, which is full bodied, fast, detailed but with a more natural feel. It’s also smooth and to be honest I never wanted a smooth sound but I have to admit that the rest of the system is “in your face” so it works. Last night after my post I sat up for a few hours spinning some new discs (Johnny Marr’s The Messenger, Cool World OST, Dave Stewart & The Spiritual Cowboys, Pylon’s Gyrate, The Ocean Blue’s Cerulean and Iggy Pop’s Free) and it’s a sound I like. I can see the sound not being a favorite around here so I waited for a used one knowing it’s a polarizing piece.

it goes good with the Odyssey power amp and it’s muscular tone and I suspect it would also be good with more midrange centric amps as well.

For reference my system is as follows:

Schiit Modius (balanced)

technics SL1200GR (w/KAB fluid damper) + Nagaoka MP-150 w/200 stylus

Sutherland 20/20 MKI (single ended)

Denafrips Athena

Odyssey Khartago (w/many upgrades)

Klipsch Heresy 4’s

Rythmik L-12 Subs (2)

single ended cables are Audio Envy Studio Prestige

balanced cable is Amazon (temp until O’Nestians arrive)

Morrow SP-4 speaker cables (will be replaced with AE in a few months)