Not enough time to give the subject its due, but, a couple of thoughts:
There is a (mistaken) tendency on the part of many music lovers to be too quick to deem a particular work, performance, performer, or conductor the “best”, “greatest”, “most soulful”, etc. without keeping matters in perspective and context. Think about it, many of the great works being discussed are a direct product of societal/political forces at play at the time of the composition, or performance. That is what artists do. Their work is an expression/reflection of the time, with all of the societal/political forces at play at the time. So, to judge a work or performance through a more current lens only is a necessarily incomplete judgment and ultimately pointless. A performance that is “more romantic” is not necessarily a good thing. The works of Shostakovich, for instance, with all the turmoil in the world at that time are seldom “romantic”; nor should they be.
BTW, while “timing” is a very important element of “interpretation”, it is only one factor. Instrumental balance, tonal color, dynamic detail and contrast are every bit as, sometimes more, important choices that a great conductor coaxes from the orchestra to make a great performance.
Sorry to be so brief.
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In spite of the fact that Bob chose to not check his cynicism at the door and felt it was ok to ignore decorum, or simple pleasantry, I will try and be proactive and point out what he is missing. One never knows. This, of course, is assuming that he likes music at all.
For starters, Bob refers to all the “minutia” that we waste time discussing. Minutia?! Seriously?! Most of what we discuss here is only scratching the surface of all that music is and can be learned about it. So, Bob, join the party! What music do you listen to?
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Did you see the Blanchard operas at the Met?
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@audio-b-dog , for the record, my comments were not a reference to anything you wrote. I’m sure you are well versed in the meaning of the word.
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**** The concept of fascism is dated...And never used to speak about music ...and today politics is way over past distinction as fascist/anti-fascist,CommunisT/capitalist,left/right, these distinctions made less and less sense with the passing years... ****
Very insightful and so true! As true as is the word itself overused these days; often without understanding its true meaning.
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Re “getting it”:
No one is suggesting that one has to like music that one is trying to “get”. This music is an artist’s expression. It belongs to the artist. The listener is a “guest”. Liking it can be considered secondary. Again, humility. However, if a listener wants to truly understand the full range and scope of a creative artist’s musical vision and evolution, he would do well to at least take it in and perhaps simply tolerate it with a listening or two. Personally, I find great value in that. The trick is to not waste time with the imposters.
Not an imposter. Check out the lineup. Could so many greats be full of s#!t? Unlikely:
https://youtu.be/iPDzlSda8P8?si=As5mYdNgfXAcnSM9
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@audio-b-dog , I am mystified! I used your search criteria and the only hit (first hit) that has “Maria Callas” in the title, this one accompanied by a pic (painting?) of Callas is in fact, 5:18 mins long. However, the clip is not of Callas. The title says “Maria Callas Recital, Puccini, etc.”; apparently referring to the name of the recital, not the name of the actual singer singing the aria. Stefana Bonfadelli is the soprano (of sorts, 😱).
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Hey @stuartk , we did change the subject. Jump in! 😊
Cousin Brucie!! Boy, that takes me back.
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@audio-b-dog , re Trane/Pharoah:
**** Am I missing something? ****
No disrespect intended, but the answer is: obviously!
A while back there was an ongoing debate on the JFA thread between one of the then most prolific contributors and I about what the “goal” of a musician/artist should be. This contributor insisted that the goal should be to “please the audience”. I strongly disagreed. The goal of a true artist is to pursue his/her artistic vision. If that vision takes the artist to a place that is uncomfortable for (in this case) the listener, well….so be it. The listener should always approach the work of an artist, particularly that of an artist of the undeniable greatness of John Coltrane with a certain level of humility. Perhaps the most important thing that makes a musician truly great is their conviction to the idea that musical knowledge (and skill) is an endless pursuit. So, why should it be different for the listener? Some of the greatest Jazz artists feel an uncontrollable drive to not only constantly improve their craft, but to constantly push forward and break personal stylistic boundaries. It takes a lifetime of honing that craft and pushing those boundaries to pursue what might, ultimately, be an unreachable goal.
When one considers the immense amount of dedication and sheer amount of time that a creative artist of the stature of Trane spent striving for a certain personal artistic goal, it seems to me that to think that the listener can, relatively casually, “get it” is kind of presumptuous. We as listeners may not get it (yet), but should at least respect it and be comfortable with not getting it. A deeper dive into the music of the artist so as to better understand the artistic progression that took the artist to that uncomfortable (for the listener) place goes a long way toward “getting it”. Humility.
Obviously, not every Jazz artist feels the same level of need to push forward and break stylistic boundaries. They may be more comfortable staying in a certain stylistic zone and continue to hone their craft within that particular zone. This doesn’t in any way invalidate or diminish the relevance of their work, but then there are and haven’t been that many artists of the stature and importance of Coltrane.
Hope this helps and regards.
BTW, there’s an old truism among Jazz musicians that says: “You can’t play outside before you can play inside”. “Out” playing is unfortunately used by too many to try and hide the fact that their playing is just bs. Not always easy for the listener, but it’s usually pretty easy to tell the imposters from the real deal. Always look for examples of an “out” player playing a standard credibly. Many times, there aren’t any.
https://youtu.be/T06fMkPkFYw?si=EzgQxwb_67ptS_81
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Curious, could someone else try those links and report what they get? Thanks!
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Very strange. With either link I get the Latvian National Opera and the soprano is Dinara Alieva. Go figure!
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Still waiting for Callas….☺️
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Love Haydn oratorios including “The Creation”. I recently listened to a favorite, “Il Ritorno di Tobias”. I usually prefer to leave audiophilic stuff out of music discussions, but as an aside, if forced to choose, my Dorati/Royal Phil double LP is probably my best sounding large ensemble orchestral recording. Love that recording.
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Beautiful rendition by Te Kanawa of this beautiful Puccini aria. Thanks!
It is common for artists (not just singers) to show some degree, however small, of their ethnicity when performing, or creating.. This is akin to a trace of accent of one’s native tongue when speaking another language. Conversely, with singers there can be a higher degree of comfort when singing in their native tongue. There might also be certain stylistic influences that are unique to a particular culture’s music that are better expressed by a native. Either way, this doesn’t necessarily make for a better or worse performance since there are other musical factors involved, but singing in one’s native tongue the music of a composer of one’s own ethnicity can sometimes add a certain “something” to the performance.
Not better or worse than Te Kanawa’s wonderful rendition, but to me this sounds more……well, Italian.
https://youtu.be/zpPPEgx9NQA?si=L4jhp8IIroLSM3eF
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