length of interconnects for passive preamp

@williewonka 

For a passive stage - I would want to use the very best cable possible to maximize signal transfer.

Can you intimate what “The very best” translates to in terms of specs?

None of that makes any sense.
Maybe it might, but with a spec, the one can determine something.

• capacitance is given in Farads (milli, micro, nano or Pico farads)
• inductance in Henrys (Milli, Micro, nano, Pico)

What you give seems sort of like BS… in nice words.

And that link that you posted does not have any specs… so going with Mogami, Canare, etc. would let people base their purchase on some meaningful specs.

Shorter is also a good practice with a passive-Pre to get the capacitance and inductance numbers as low as possible.

Thanks @williewonka I’ll try to keep my tone civil.

Geometry:

• One of the 3 PS links mentions woven cables, which sound like what the Kimber 4TC and 8TC are.
• And you also mention the silver gold Mundorf.
• Is that a single solid core?
  • and… are you saying that the multi strand is something you shy away from?

Insulation

• I see PTFE and also bare wire.
• Are you using a different cotton over the bare wire?
• And then in your earlier talk about an air gap… Are you “twisting the pair”?
  • Wouldn’t that reduce the gap to zero where the +/- sit ‘side by side’?

The other thing that the 3 part PSaudio mentioned was time errors. Does reducing some of the cable issues even help in a speaker that is not phase or time coherent?

https://www.mundorf.com/audio/en/shop/Cables/MConnect_SGW/

OK Steve lets get back onto the topic of: “Length of interconnects for passive pre.”

1. I see no great point for multi stranded wire in the interconnect.
   1. But I suppose if there is some 20-28 gauge stranded wire then why/why not? (I have no opinion on geometry, just length and specs)
2. The output impedance of any passive pre is “gawd awful”
   1. So length should be minimised
   2. Capacitance should be minimised
   3. inductance should be minimised

I would not be considering using a passive pre, unless I was considering playing that system pretty damned loud.

And secondly if one wanted to use a powered sub woofer, like a vandersteen, then it would not work at all given the impedance changes with output knob level in a wild (but predictable) way.

And lastly; I would not consider it unless I had spoken to the amp people to get their opinion on the topic.

The only benefit I can see is if one had a super sensible speaker, and controlling thermal noise was the primary goal.

They look great on paper, up to a point… only in the simplest of cases.

@williewonka don’t do this:

• using any old piece of wire is defeating the purpose of having a passive pre in the first place

That is a straw man misquoting, as I said I had no opinion on geometry and size.
I also said I only care about “length and specs.”

1. I see no great point for multi stranded wire in the interconnect.
   1. But I suppose if there is some 20-28 gauge stranded wire then why/why not? (I have no opinion on geometry, just length and specs)

Whatever piece of wire the OP uses will result in the tonal quality changing with volume-knob level. It does not matter if it is copper, silver, steel or gold. And it does not matter if it is multi-stranded solid, or whatever.

The higher the capacitance and inductance, and the longer the wire… then the larger the tonal change will be as the volume knob goes to lower and lower volume levels.

Do we agree on the physics (electronic aspects) that the length, capacitance and inductance of the interconnect are important?

Or is your position that the specs do not matter in favour of the materials, constructions and geometry?

My passive sucked the life out of my system when I was using very inefficient speakers and monoblocks, which required  3 meter ICs.

Ideally we change only 1 thing at a time.

I recently switched to very sensitive speakers (horns) and a stereo amp  and the passive sounds great even with the same ICs.

I suspect that the input impedance of the power amps play a role, and the gain of the amplifiers also okay a role.

the reason for my q was I want to purchase shorter interconnects to get it to sound even better (and the fact that I do not require this length). I will purchase 1 meter or .5 meter ICs - question is what brand - to be honest I do not quite understand the specifics of some of the previous posts but want to express my thanks and appreciation for your contributions. 

I would purchase the cheapest Amazon cable, or what you already have in a Red/White/yellow set.
And use that as a baseline in an A/B test.

The Wonka mentioned these earlier 

Personally I would not be using anything that is more $ than that, and they are at my edge of what I can tolerate in terms of marketing foo.

It would be best if you could try them before committing.
And whether you hear a difference or not… it would be good see your feedback.

they are unshielded and were inexpensive - but were MUCH better than the other 2 - so I may purchase shorter ICs from him or send the 3 meter back and have him make 2 pair of shorter ICs.  

^That^ sounds like a wise plan. IMO.

So I guess we agree ! - to some extent 🖕

I guess we are getting the finger onto the pulse ^here^?

Back to your twisted wires with the oversized insulators and also the cotton.
There is a lot of talk focussing on the materials and the geometry. It is possible that those affect the electrical parameters directly, and that one could talk about the parameters that are desired rather than construction.

It makes sense when we talk about a cake or a bottle of wine to talk about whether it is chocolate or Pinot, and not talk about the chemicals. But electrical things have only three things (resistance, capacitance and inductance. They are not like flavours.