I hope a dealer is close enough that I can check them out. |
Thanks Cpk and Barone for your response. Cpk, your point about the company not matching their drivers caught my attention because of the companys following statement which can be found on their website. It is as follows. Quote "Only a handful of loudspeaker manufacturers take the time to carefully hand-match loudspeaker pairs. Each pair of LEGACY speakers goes through a lengthy, cumbersome process known as nulling. We will place a microphone equi-distant from each speaker, then feed identical pink noise to both speakers. One of the loudspeakers is intentionally connected out of phase. The goal here is to create the strongest cancellation possible. We then adjust the individual crossover components; turns are wound off inductors and resistors are trimmed. We will often improve the null by as much as 3 dB!" Unquote. Is this just a bunch of bull meant for the consumption of an ignorant comsumer? What was the reasoning behind your statement that they do not match drivers. Ive heard this mentioned before, so your not the only one with this concern.
Barone, thanks for your response also, I've read about so many people that love this speaker, including such industry experts like sterophile magazine. I wonder if the people not liking this speaker are haveing problems with room accustics that need to be resolved. When I built an addition on my house and moved my system into a room that was alot differant from the one before in terms of size and shape. The differance was like day and night. (alot worse unfortunatly) The bass response almost disappeared, what remained was boomy and unlistenable. I'm convinced that the accustics of a room can affect the actual sound of a speaker almost as much as the design of the speaker itself. It makes perfect sense if you think about it. |
Thanks for the additional input everyone. A good point about people may having an agenda Fplanner2000. When theirs more emotion that usful information in their comments, it may be an indication of some kind of an agenda, either for or against the product. I guess my next step is to audition a pair. Whatever speaker I wind up getting, one thing is certain. I do need some serious room treatment. Any help in that area would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps some literature that could quide me. I know some of this stuff is quite expensive. Whether its warrented or not I have know idea giving my limited knowledge of all of this. Unfortunatly my desire for good sound doesn't see eye to eye with my wallet. If theirs any snake oil out there, I cant afford to find out about it the hard way. |
Thanks for the Echo Buster info, will check them out. Anxious to check your review Douglas |
Douglas, I have just read your first review of the lagacy focous hd speakers. I sense that comparing these to the legacy 20 20 focus is like camparing apples and oranges. Is there that much of an improvment between the two? Have you ever auditioned the 20 20's I'm looking forward to the second part of your review. The first part seemed to address the build quality and design aspects. I assume the second part will let us know what your ears have to say about them. I hope my system is, for the most part, able to bring out the best in these speakers if I get them. It is quite modest. I'm using a Hafler 9300 trans nova power amp, adcom gcd 700 c-d player, strightwire laser 8 speaker wire, and a yamaha cx-630 preamp.( I have an Aragon 18k pre-amp with seperate power suppy and the penny and giles volume control upgrade) Are you familiar with any of this stuff? will they so these speakers any justice? |
The speakers I'm using are the Altec Lansing 401. They are about 20 years old. Listed for about $1000.00 a pair new. They are a 3-way floor standing speaker with a 12" acoustic suspension woofer with a woven carbonfiber cone. The mid and high frequency drivers are 2" and 1" dome radiators. They weigh about 60 lbs each. When I first bought these speakers all of my upstream equipment really was garbage, including very heavy 12 guage speaker wire that you bought off a roll. Listening to anything at a high volume level was nothing less than an all out attack on your ears. In their present configuration you can actually get involved and lost in the music for some time. But after a while you still find yourself saying "okay, thats about enough of this" I feel they are the weakest link in my system at this time. What I'm looking for in a speaker is one that will be a big step above what I have now, one that my system will be able to give justice to it's capability's, and one that is good enough so that future epuipment upgrades will benifit from their quality. I really appreciate your time and input on this. |
Doug...The reason for bringing up the break in period was because the dealership seemed to think the initial hundred hours made a big difference, and would probably benefit from even longer playing time. Perhaps he was over stateing it knowing I wasn't totally satisfied with the audition. |
Well Douglas, the first thing I'll probably wind up doing is auditioning a pair of these things. There's a dealer about an hours drive from me in NJ. Will probably wind up buying a pair. But all this is pending on what the second half of your review of them is like. If you dont like them I doubt I will even bother. If I do get them, I will certainly and anxiously tell all what I think of them. As for future upgrades, you'll have to be pretty patient before you hear about any of those. Being married with kids, one of whom just graduated from from The American Acadamy of Dramtic Arts and wants to be an actor, can take its toll on ones descretionary spending. Thats a pretty tough racket, he may need alot of help for a while. But who knows he may get lucky and strike it rich, than I can go out and buy the latest flagship speaker from Wilson Audio. In the mean time I'll continue buying most of my stuff second hand. Seems to me thats the way to go for me considering most electronics dont go bad or ware out like cars do. ( I think ) At least speaker cables and interconnects should'nt, If anyone knows any other good site's on line where you can find used, sorry, preowned audio gear, I would love to check it out. Thanks |
What are the Vandersteen's going for |
Ive gone to stereophile and read the review on the Vandersteens. They definatly think they are a great speaker at a good price. Will keep them on my short list if the Legacy's dont work out |
I should have mentioned the Vandersteen's in the review where the Quatros, not the 5's |
Douglas, I read the second half of your review of the focus HD. You are obviously quite impressed with it. I intended to audition a pair but when I called ahead of time they informed me that they had sold their display pair. Would be getting a new pair on friday. (2/8/08) Was wondering, do these speakers need to be broken in for any length of time before they reach their potential? Or do they sound reasonably well out of the box? |
Douglas...A thousand people could tell me they were impressed with these speakers. But not knowing who they where, it wouldn't mean a thing. You on the other hand have owned and listened to systems that I could probably only dream of having. You giving them a thumbs up is pretty encouraging. "A bass lovers dream" you said. I am definitly one of those. When I listen to some music, I can sense that it's intention's are to be so huge and powerfull, that if you could put it on a scale, it would weigh in as much as the worlds oceans or mountains. But with my system, it gets trimed down to something more on the order of a fish pond, or hillside at best.
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Douglas, and Community... It is true, he is not paying me to say these things. (Interesting idea though) I hope by those comments the community doesn't think that the only opinion that matters to me are those of Douglas schroeder. What I meant was that not knowing the backround of a person can make it hard to know what their version of good or great is. It may be that the best listening experience they've ever had was through a pair of Fisher floor standing speaker's, the ones with those big ol 15" woofers. Of course they would be impressed with the HD's, even if they weren't any good. (By audiophile standards) So their opinion would not be of much value to me. Of course, I would imagine that most people with a Fisher quality sound system dosen't wake up in the morning saying to themselves "You know, I really have to get around to auditioning those $7000 Legacy's some day". I doubt many of them would have an opinion to share in the first place. So by that logic, the community could argue that I never could have been referring to them, and therefore, must have been referring to the community when I made that comment. I assure you I wasn't, my mistake. The fact that you belong to this community in the first place tells me you have an interest and therefore a knowledge thats above the average person. So I would consider and value everyones opinion here. By the way, I have nothing against people with lousy sound systems. Maybe they cant afford it, or it just isn't their thing. Either one doesn't make them bad people. I can certainly relate to the "can't afford it" part. Considering my first speaker upgrade took place at around the age of nine, (That was a beauty) and now some forty years later I've moved all the way up to the Altec's. Wow! With that kind of progress I could have been in Congress. Of course I always wanted to upgrade quicker, just couldn't afford it.
I can definatly understand your frustration with the imigration issue. Now it looks as though there will be some kind of immunity for those that are here illegally. It is a complex issue, but if they do that, it would be like punishing those like yourselfs who have gone through the trouble and expense of doing it right, and rewarding those who didn't.
"Can a speaker create an emotionally equivalent feeling of experiencing something of tremendous beauty in the sonic realm?" (You ask) Absolutly. Of course it depends on what your feeding it. It's the music that really creates the magic. Most of the garbage being written today that I hear on the radio certainly wont get me to Lake Louise, no matter how good the system. And I'm telling you if that stuff were the only music available for me to listen to, I wouldn't spend so much as $50 on a set of speakers. But no problem, there's loads of music out there that can take you to Lake Louise and wherever else you want to go, you just need a system that will allow it to do so. The greatest music in the world isn't going to transport you very far if your hearing it through a 1960's vintage Global, model GR-711, transistor radio. Don't get me wrong, I love my Global model GR-711 transistor radio, with metal grill, revearse painted plastic, and emergancy civil defense marking's on the dial. But it isn't going to get the job done.
Before I was made aware of the Legacy speakers, I was considering buying a Valodyne Digital Drive DD-18 Subwoofer, to deal with the issues I'm having with my lack of Bass. It probably would have done that, but at a cost of around $5000, and I still would be stuck with the Altec's. How great would it be if the Legacys, for a bit more money, could solve not only my bass problem, but the rest of the spectrum as well. Mind you I'm still aware of the serious room problems I have, and the benefit that better components will give me. I hope to give the Legacy's a listen this week |
Just listened to the Legacy HD's. Used my own source material that I'm very familiar with. After 2 hours of listening, I wound up with mixed feelings about what I had heard. The bass for instance. During the opening passage of "Pictures at an Exhibition" there is some pretty hefty bass provided by the bass drums that the HD's handled extremely well. But when I put on Marrilion's "The Thieving Magpie" a c-d loaded with alot of deep bass, alot of it didn't seem to come through as well as it did on my existing system. (When I had a subwoofer) Did the HD's forget how to produce bass in between the "Pictures at an Exhibition" and the Marrilion c-d. Of course not. So what happened? Room acoustics? It could be they weren't set up the way they were meant to be. Not sure how fussy they are about that. The room was 12' wide and about 30' long. The speakers were about 2' off of each wall. The listener was seated about 10 in front of them. They were towed in so the inner side of each speaker was just visable. When I listened to the opening heart beat of Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" I turned it up a bit to see how they could handle it. There was so much in the room that was vibrating, including the drop cieling, it was hard to concentrate on the sound coming from the speakers. These things could definitely move air and shake the room. Why so much of the music I played did not come through with the audible deep bass I was expecting, I dont know. Another critizism I have is in the upper region where some of the music seemed to come through as being a little hard, or strident. One example was a rather loud choral segment on one of the test c-d's I brought with me. I played it at a rather loud level, but soon turned it back down because it was somewhat irritating. Was the room to lively? The walls were all dry wall with some treatments. When clapping you could hear a slight echo, but it decayed rather quickly. There was a large on the wall tv screen in between the speakers. May that have had an effect on them? The speakers were broken in for about 100 hours. Is this enough time? Is there a proper or prefered way to break them in? Is there a wrong way to break them in? All questions I dont know the answer to. I am not giving up on these yet. I did hear alot of breathtaking sound coming out of them. And I've heard nothing but high praise for them, from well respected people and magazines that have heard and reviewed much better equipment then I ever will. There is a Legacy dealer in Long Island that I will at least call, and perhaps go out there to listen to their setup. I should also mention that the associated equipment at this audition was good stuff, but not extremely high end by any means. I should have taken notes, but if I recall it consisted of a Pioneer Elite C-D player, B&K preamp, and a Legacy monoblock Amp. Not sure about the make of the interconnects or speaker wire, but they seemed to be of a high quality. Of course it that doesn't mean they all work together well. If anyone can shed some light on this, I am all ears. If it really is a room environment issue. I would do whatever it takes to make them work. I was hoping I could audition a pair at home with the option of returning them if not satisfied, but the dealer said that really wasn't an option since they are a made to order speaker. |
My room give or take is app. 18' deep x 24' wide. The cieling goes from 8' high at the front (speaker location) wall to about 12' high above the listener if he were sitting 12 from the front wall. I have plenty of room for speaker placement.
I wonder if the 100 hour break in period may be more like 50, or 40, or whatever because they weren't broken in properly. Perhaps the wrong material, or not played loud enough. Thanks |
Doug...curious as to what listening environment you had for the HD's. I noticed they are ported in the rear, and have read that they are designed to interact somewhat with the surrounding walls and such to achieve its goals. this it seems might make them particularly sensitive to room size and placement. Perhaps some rooms simply cannot accomodate them. I understand they should be 3' from back and side to any wall. This was not the case at the dealer where I listened to them. He said that he simply did not have the room to set them up that way. How sensitive do you suppose they are to its enviornment. What are your thoughts as to the break in period. (100 hours when I listened to them) |
Ok Doug, happy reviewing, thanks for your input here. I'll drop in at DAGOGO now and then to see what your up to. |
