Herman, you are quite correct in your observation. The mentioning of the Western Electric tube was kind of semi-fraudulent, as Lamm never used the 417s. Probably because Lamm believes that the WE name sound sexy for the audio propagandas, so he dropped this "flashy" audio title. With the same result Lamm could name Thomas Alva Edison as a co-created of his phono-preamp.
The Rcprince comment are not accurate: the LP2 never was produced with 417A, would it be early or late production. Probably he bought it used the previous owner placed the 417A tubes in the unit. BTW, the replacement the tubes from 5842 to the 417A is quite questionable procedure as it creates a lot of own issues. Generally, I feel, this phonostage does not worth to do any re-tubing or any further experiments as it is not really serious RIAA corrector. There was an article about it at
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=708.
You might find it worth to read. |
The correct article location is:
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=708 |
That is fine that you disagree. Audio does need some stratification in order the different phonocorrectors bring best in the different systems, for different people and even in different music. Certainly it could not be an argument if YOU THINK that the LP2 sounds wonderful or not. The issue was if the LP is an adequate quality phonocorrector, abstractedly speaking, without any reference of the specific limitation of yours or anyone elses playback. Unfortunately the LP2 on the scale of 10 being the best would be somewhere at 5 points in MM and somewhere around 3 points in MC mode. Happy you or not
it would be juts the stage of your satisfaction but not the objective performing characteristic of a given audio device.. |
Actually, Herman, I do not call you by any names by any means but I just REACT to the behavioral patterns you indicate in your posts. Northing else! I think that instead of observing my unquestionably condescending behavior you should look slightly more critically to your own verbal actions. From the place where I stay the people who preoccupied with building the base of own supporters on order to shape up own visions, the people, who reject whatever they did not know yet and the people who use hypocrisy as evidences do have very distinctive names. That was a fan thread and I hope that now the psychological profile of a typical Lamm LP2 owner well exposed itself. I have seen at least dozen folks who were feeling the same way as you do about this phonocorrector and I might report the you all gays have some similarities. No hard feelings.
Just an easy phonostage and the easy user
Enjoy you easy time in audio
. |
*** There was nothing to support his position that it was not accurate other than his perceptions. I think it is very accurate. Who is correct? He did not like the sound of it and went into great detail to make his point, but at the end of the day it was just an opinion. Why should I give any more weight to the guy you referenced than Olsher? I don't. Olsher loved it and so do I. The guy you referenced didn't. So what? I think I'll stick with my opinion and continue to enjoy what I consider to be a very nice phono stage.
Herman,
very interesting observation! The most exciting is the part where you contemplate to whom you should give more weight: to Romy or to Olsher? That was a titanic intellectual battle on your part: you picked the side but
you importantly lost the phonostage. I might open a secret to you: the LP2 was design specifically for the people who are accustomed to pick the sides in audio
Im not kidding, Herman.
I do not think that it would be relevant or necessary to teach you about the specific and unambiguous shortcomings that Lamm LP2 has. You said that you love it and this pretty much sets all bids off. It is similar to you are dating an ugly woman she is ugly
. but if you love then her ugliness do not bother you, quite in contrary you, under the influence of your love, find here beautiful. Im do feel comfortable with this arrangement but answering your question So what? I would say: Love her but do not drag her to the world competition of female beauty (let presume that they have any merit). The people who played at THAT level have seen more objectively attractive women and have more developed reference points of prettiness.
The said parts in this entire thing people in audio are not trained or tuned to deal with the subject of the equipments performance and they are unable to objectively assess the sonic results. The Audio is bult around the audio items made to be love and the people who looking for justification and conformations why they are in love with the audio items. Romy The Cat calls those people Audio Zombies
In any rate, this thread is not about the misery of LP2 but about the Lamms Linguistic trickery around the WE 417A. Since you so love your LP2 then Im sure you have found many alternative tuby solutions to your Lamms phonocorrector. Im glad you love your item and enjoy what your discernment makes enjoyable. |
I did not call you audio zombie I said that you behaved like on in your posts above. Regarding the rest
well, the reason why I referred you to the Romys observation is because it was my article, so I kind of very much agree with it. In the end, I am glad that you are in peace with your known reviewer, with your listened at length to many of the world's best phono stages, with yours many years of direct observation, and with your objective data. I wonder if you were able to hand the real data if I present it
. But I do not wonder anymore. Anyhow, Herman, I think it might be the end of the conversation between me and you regarding the Lamm LP2. I think we said much more then this phonocorrector deserves. |
Deceive you?!!! Are you out of you mind? How did I deceive you, or was trying to? Deceive YOU? Do you really feel that to deceive you is my objective and that might serve any value? God, apparently there are more egomaniac people then myself!!! How more forthcoming a person should be then to be just myself? Did you confuse me with Osama Bin Laden or with your local brothers with whom you would like to kiss and glorify each peas of hi-fi crap? Herman, you need to do really something more to earn my deceiving attention. You could bring any factors into your analysis you wish but so far it does not look that your analysis has any substance. The LP2? It was never the subject of my article this phonocorrector does not really deserve any serious writing or mine. The subject or that article was to demonstrate the reviewing idiocy that the reviewer full presented. The Lamm LP was juts a comfortable and lucky illustration that, as an RIAA corrector, is good ONLY for the illustration. I am sorry that the phonocorrector-illustration replaced for you a phonocorrector. Actually, why sorry, - it was bult for you. Enjoy the ride
|
*** You deceived us by pretending to be someone else, directing our attention to an article and not revealing that you had written it. This deception would lead us to be believe that the opinions stated were not only yours but were also held by others, thereby giving them credibility. This is no different than when a dealer posts a positive review of their own products without identifying themselves as a dealer.
Hm, I never thought in this way. I refer to the article because I though it would give you some education. You have to learn to deal with the subject and with points of the writing not with the extending the respect to the author of the writing. You said: his deception would lead us to be believe that the opinions stated were not only yours but were also held by others, thereby giving them credibility. It was exactly where you come very short, insultingly short, unforgivable short! Who cares how many others people hold my opinion and that would extend any credibility? Come on, are you still object you audio-Zombie inclinations or you wiling to sing me more songs about your personal listening experience? Anyhow, since you self-disqualified yourself I would like to point out (again) that Lamm LP2 was initially designed to address the very specific and very restricted level of audio consciousness
I am glad that you found the match
*** Glad to see you took yet another opportunity to bash a piece of equipment that other than your analysis has received glowing praise. Everyone that sits down for a listen in my system raves about how lifelike the vocals are, singer present in the room, etc., etc.
This juts portray your surrounding but it said nothing about the performance of the LP2. Furthermore, reading your singer present in the room it is self-evident that you, audio-wise, still swim in very shallow water. Stay with LP2, it is fine preamp for you. I was not trying to be smart-ass in that last sentence; I was very serious and very positive.
*** Your observation below is so far removed from my experience and that of everyone who has listened to my system that I wholeheartedly agree that we have nothing further to discuss concerning this phono stage. You wrote:Also, the LP2 do has a lot of problems with human voice and particularly with upper region. LP2 converts everything above ~4000-5000Hz into a nonspecific, glycerin dipped (thanks for 417A)
tenorsish vaseline
In your world it called urgency of human voice. In my world it means the urgency to writhe anything is a review
Well I very stay behind of what I said and if should you behaved I might explain what you might do to distinguish this quality of LP2. However, you said enough for me to make a conclusion that it might be waste of my time. Defiantly the ignorance is blessing
|
*** So now you have switched from being a condescending jerk to being a patronizing jerk?
Nope, I was not a patronizing jerk but I patronized a jerk.
*** You did indeed directly use the insults I cited. " Defiantly the ignorance is blessing" was not calling me ignorant? "
And what is wrong to be ignorant? Ignorance is the fact of unawareness and you certainly unaware about many aspects. If you feel insulted that you are ignorant them my presumption that you jerk was not so off the mark. Do you wont me to go on with it or you would calm down? We both have decided that there is not rationale for me to educate you how to recognize the real LP2 capacities. So what else you want to talk with me? To accuse me that Im a bad Cat? Ok, I agree, so what?
*** Do you really think I am so stupid that I dont realize you are insulting me? Your tact throughout this thread has been to attack and deride. The article you wrote about Olsher's review was unquestionably abusive and you evidently took great pleasure in mocking him. No matter how right you think you are it does not give you license to be less than civil.
Civility is a stature of perception and it is high colorize thing that fluctuate with a given agenda. If I turn myself around and begin to parse your wisdom that made you to mate your Avantgarde Dos with 300B then you would kiss me in my taily ass. In reality, I really do not care about you and frankly speaking you are insulting yourself much more than I would expected. Well, this is your prerogative: do whatever makes you happy
*** Do you treat people with such utter disdain when you deal with them face to face or just when hiding behind the wall of the internet? Are you so insecure that you can only feel good about yourself when you belittle others?
And what would be the different if it internet or face to face? You would be the same and you would be expressing the same boredom and you are doing now.
*** Although you would not know it by reading your posts, it really is possible to take an opposing view without ridiculing the other person. You are evidently an intelligent individual, but it is impossible to take anything you say seriously when the only way you are able to make a point is to scoff at the person you disagree with.
You are incorrect. I ridicule the ridiculeable and in this given case it is you. I never ridicule a person who says something. You do not say anything. All that I heard from you that you have a pack of your friends who come to your house and who told you that your LP2 sound is was a cool phonocorrector. Sorry, my friend, I am not the person who is impressed with the baseball inelegance and the bumper sticker-wisdom. It was the last time when I replied to your lightweightness.
Take care... |
*** I have not heard the LP2 but there has been so much praise by virtually everyone here who has either owned this or heard it that I would love to hear it vs. my Io
Hm
you will find that Io it compatible to LP2. From certain prospective the LP2 is more interesting because it has some X-factor (look my article about L2) and some other things but Io is less brick wall flat then LP2. The Io is very mud-spattered vs LP2 us too syntactic. Witches are better? Both are no there
*** Do you find it to have a lower noise floor than the Io?
Hm, I would not say so. The LP2 has 453 zillions dB less gain then Io and it looks like it quieter. Also, the LP2 is too sharp (musically speaking) that snips the noise and many that Patricia Barber so attractive for some people
In addition, the 417A/5842 tubes that used in LP2 are unfortunately VERY finny. They pick noise, they deviate gain, and they go into crazy sometimes. They have HUGE percentage (~80%) that might not be use in the LP2 input stage. The 417A/5842 is very unstable tube and there are many much better high mu tubes that might be bult a phonocorrector around, including the two stages 65dB gain instead of the 37dB gain that Lamm made in his LP2. What is the purpose to have a insufficient gain glycerin- like-sounding phonocorrector and to use it with transistor-table-radio-like-sounding transformer-condom? What to use it with, the $300 worth MM Grado?
I have to admit that I kind of slightly harsher on the Lamm LP2 because to me it was a disappointment phonocorrector. I even paid $250 in order Lamm to inspect it and to confirm that my unit was not broken. After a year of trying to push the demanded sound off my unit and after facing the SAME sound form at least 10 other units I declared the LP2 as juts an ordinary audiophile crap. I never extend more credibility to any other piece of audio that I had in my room and I never work harder trying to get out of LP2 are reasonable sound. Probably my frustration with this phonocorrector have licensed me to be slightly more critical to what the LP2 does. If some of the older guys remember the text of my add and my picture when I was dumping my LP2 on this site then you might decipher how I felt about this init. |
