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Koetsu vs Dynavector

I am looking at new (well new to me anyway) cartridges for my turntable. I have found a couple of interesting candidates but given that cartridges are one of the hardest things to purchase because of the problems of arranging home trials, I am interested in other peoples opinions. I am looking at the Koetsu Urushi's (either a Vermillion or a Black) or a Dynavector Te Kaitora Rua or XV1. I realize there is a bit of a price spread at normal retail but there are some demo issues that level the field a bit. My system is as follows Oracle Delphi MkIV with a highly modified Rega arm running into a modified Mod Squad Phono Drive. This all runs into a Sonic Euphoria Transformer based volume control. The amp is a custom tube amp based on the 6L6 tube (using NOS Tung Sol 5881 at the moment). This puts out twenty watts of PP power to a pair of Quad ESL 63. The cables are a mix of Homegrown Audio silver interconnects with Eichman silver RCA jacks and Analysis Audio Silver speaker cables.
My musical preferences lie in the smaller scale more introspective sphere on this system (I have a Altec Lansing based horn setup for rocking out). Anything from Frank and Ella to Johhny Cash to Bob Dylan to Dianna Krall. I also love the instruments that share the vocal sound. I gravitate to cello, saxophone and trombone over guitar and piano. I want to here the tone and texture of the voice as my first priority and timing a bit further down the line. My listening room is a bit on the large side (30' x 50' x 25') and has a very live acoustic. It has polished concrete floors and 115 year old plaster walls (I live in an 1893 Methodist church).
I welcome any opinions but I am mostly looking for people with actual hands on experience with either the Koetsus or the Dynavectors.

Thanks
Dan
djeickme75

Showing 6 responses by rauliruegas

rauliruegas
13,125 posts
 
Dear Djeickme75 : IMHO there are some subjects here that we have to take in count to make a cartridge choice ( btw, I agree with Halcro that the XV-1 and Urushis are different even between the Koetsus. )

While the Urushi Vermillion is a very low output at 0.2mv the Urushi Black is 0.4mv: big difference here. While the Koetsus are low compliance cartridges ( 5cu ) the XV-1 are a medium one ( 10 cu ) and with an output between the Koetsus ( 0.33mv. ).

All these cartridge facts/specs tell us that we have to take care to match either cartridge with the right tonearm and with the right top quality phono stage too, these two " considerations " are a must to achieve the real top quality performance on each cartridge.

You say that own a modified Rega tonearm and a modified Mod Squad phono stage that for me tell us almost nothing to give you a more precise advise about.

These cartridges are not a " cheap " ones ( over 4K ) and if your Rega/Mod Squad are not up to the task ( that maybe are not, I can't be sure. ) then IMHO you are only " loosing " your time and money on the subject and maybe you can't achieve what you are looking for.

Btw you can achieve what you want with either of those cartridges with the right equipment ( synergy ) and set up.

Dan, btw which cartridge do you own/use?

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
.
rauliruegas
13,125 posts
 
Dear Dan: Well there is other confuse information: I know that the Platinum series has 0.2mv but now on the Koetsu official site you and I can read: 0.3mv ?????, there is no echnical reference about.

Now, for what you posted on your tonearm and phono stage IMHO I don't think that those audio items can do real " justice " to either of those MC cartridges: IMHO you don't have the right analog rig ( those both items ) to match those cartridges but you can buy either of those MC cartridges if you think to up-grade/change your today tonearm and phono stage.

Now, the good news are that there are other very good options that can/could even your Koetsu/Dyna alternatives using your today tonearm/phono stage.

Options: Nagaoka MP-50, Grado Amber The Tribute, Reson Reca, Clearaudio Maestro/virtuoso, the new MM Ortofon line, B&O MMC 1 or 2, Soundsmith The Voice, etc, etc.

You can achieve your targets with these cartridges and with one additional advantage: low price against those MC cartridges that you are looking for.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
rauliruegas
13,125 posts
 
Dear Musicfile: Not the Bronze but the Black and not in my system and I have to say that is very good performer and the Bronze I understand is almost the same cartridge and I could say it is a good performer too.

I'm interested on your cartridge quality performance, if you can email me when already " settle-down ".

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
rauliruegas
13,125 posts
 
Dear Dan: Please don't laugh you posted in your thread: +++++ " I welcome any opinions ...." +++++, so try to honor your word.

Many years ago I have the opportunity to heard several times ( audio friend ) the Mod Squad De Luxe with medium output cartridges and was a good item.
You posted: +++++ " The Zu is a bit of a challenge for the phono stage but it seems to get by without to much trouble but I will admit that I don't have any room to spare on gain.... " +++++, well one of the Koetsu are lower on output than the ZU and in the other hand and with all respect IMHO both the Koetsus and XV-1 deserve a better " treatment " that the one that can give your phono stage.

Anyway, is your money and if buying a 4K low output MC cartridge to run on your today phono stage makes you happy then be happy, everyone deserve it.

Dan, you ask and my answer is an honest one trying to help you to achieve what you are looking for in the best way according my knowledge about.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

I'm not saying that your unit is " second class " as you point out: what I'm saying is that those " first class " cartridges deserve a better " treatment " .
rauliruegas
13,125 posts
 
Dear Djeickme: IMHO trying to discuss on an electronic audio item ( specially a phono stage ) that was designed more than 20 years ago is useless for say the least.

+++++ " "The main audible difference between the two phono preamplifiers was caused by noise". He admits that the Mod Squad is very slightly noisier with very low output MC cartridges... " ++++++

so the gain is not the only issue there are several along the noise.

Perhaps you think that that phono stage ( by the today phono stage standards ) is up to the task to really match the XV-1 or Urushi, fine with me.

+++++ " can only serve to mess up the info retrieved by the cartridge " +++++

here IMHO the tonearm and phono stage have a critical " job " because depend on which tonearm is the cartridge matched to the signal quality performance and depend too with which phono stage that cartridge signal must pass through. Remember that is in the phono stage where IMHO that cartridge signal can/could " suffer " a severe degradation due to it " heavy " process on the signal to achieve the right gain ( in many cases almost 10,000 times before could be amplified for the system’s amplifier. ) and to conform according the RIAA eq.

One target in an analog audio system is ( regarding the cartridge signal ) add the less and loosing the less too, trying to preserve the cartridge signal integrity.

Anyway is your " call " and certainly you will do what makes you happy!, good.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
rauliruegas
13,125 posts
 
Dear Djeickme75: +++++ " to engage in these audiophilia nervosa discussions. " +++++

that depend of what you are looking for, IMHO " these audiophilia nervosa ... " are almost always a learning ones for almost every one.

+++++ " At the end of the day all that matters is each person feeling good about their own choices. That can never happen in a forum like this unless you shape your opinions to fit the masses of the forum. " +++++

not necessary because the " target " is not to fit the masses opinion but to fit our own targets.
The other forum opinions help to learn how we can or can't achieve in a better/easy way what we are looking for. No one is angry because your opinion or other opinion is different and I can say that almost always the opinions are a honest ones.

IMHO I think that in this Analog Forum you and any one else has/have a tremendous advantage " hearing/knowing " different opinions from different people with different experience/know-how levels, IMHO this fact is priceless and we have to appreciate that we have it.

Dan, don't go I'm sure you are always welcome here!!!

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
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