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klipschorns, they kick ass for sure

hello folks.   for those out there that think the big klipschorn's are not good enough to be a high end quality speaker, guess what??   your wrong!!   I have been in audio for over 40 years. I have heard many speaker systems over the years. I have very good speakers now in my home. I have good equipment running them.  I picked up a pair of k-horns last week.  1986 model year.  replaced the crossovers with crites xovers.  one tweeter blown.  replaced both with ct120 tweeters from crites. hooked them up to my parasound  3500 amp ( yes, way overkill  )  but I wasent in the mood to move it.  speakers placed where they are supposed to be in the corners of the room.  well let me tell you all it took was 2 minutes to decide these things are the bomb.  I dident hear any of the stuff I been reading about over the last 30 years how these speakers are harsh, no good bass and everything else everybody says about them.  as far as im concerned they are clean, clear, crisp, and loud. did I say loud.  volume starts a 7 o'clock,  at 9 o'clock  your ears start to bleed.  I guess the 350 watts into a speaker that only needs 20 will do that.  and all the stuff I hear about  ss amps these speakers don't like.  only 30 watt tube amps will do or you will hear all kinds of noise.  well, all I can say is bull crap to that.  what I here is a speaker sounding better then just about anything else I ever heard.  I played rock,jazz,classical,  all passed with flying color's. all I can say is you guys out there that think they suck. have your ears cleaned out and go listen again.  yes, the 350 watt power house is going to go before I blow everything up. 
tomtab

Showing 5 responses by phusis

phusis's avatar
phusis
1,248 posts
 
A high light of the days when I attended the national Acoustical Society meetings was a debate between Edgar Villchur (sp?) and Paul Klipsch during which Klipsch said "I don't care if you push it with a broom handle, you still have to move the air." Of course, we know who won that debate from a sales standpoint. I think stereo ended the days of the great corner folded horns.

It's a testament to the engineering wonder and sonic impact of the Klipschorn that it's still made today, largely unmodified, 70(!) years after its initial launch - a feat I believe no other speaker model can rival. Mr. Villchur's acoustic suspension principle has had a lasting effect as well in many different incarnations, but its sales pitch of lower distortion at low frequencies has in effect been foreshadowed first and foremost by its reduction in physical size - an aspect that brings with it (in conjunction with much lower sensitivity) a set of new audible limitations.

Many audiophiles not in favor of hornspeakers seem hellbent on pointing out  their "colorations," all the while being oblivious to the shortcomings of direct radiating speakers that can be heard as an absence of core traits such as dynamics, scale, ease, speed and overall physical/emotional impact. One anomaly "popularly" comes in the form of an alteration/addition to a signal (horns), whereas the other goes as a negation (direct radiating speakers); what the latter lacks I feel typically weighs much more as a coloration than the former, so there we go.
phusis's avatar
phusis
1,248 posts
 
I consider myself a neutral observer in this matter. One of my best friends has K-horns, though I don't. It's been a long time since I needed their capacity for "loud", my house isn't a good fit for them, and, mainly, I happen to prefer other traits in speakers. However, for those who want the strong points of a horn and don't mind their drawbacks, they are a great choice.

mlsstl --

One of the misconceptions of horns seems to be focusing more exclusively on their abilities into high SPL's - perhaps your comparison to "muscle cars" above meant to say the same thing? Indeed muscle cars combined with poor suspensions and brakes makes them appear even more brute and simple, like big muscles and little to no brains and more like a Camarro than a Porsche 911 or some Ferrari (perhaps a poor example). Maybe I'm reading too much into your replies, but any claim of neutrality combined with remarks as these is kind of like having your cake and eat it too. Like saying "to each their own, but from an objective standpoint horns are something [loud] like this [and mostly that]." We're mainly talking the K-horns here, and they seem to be your primary focus, but selling them short on loudness is hardly the whole story. To my ears horns more often than not actually excel at lower volumes (and higher as well), coupled with a capacity to emulate the sound of live acoustic music - of which dynamics and effortless reproduction at higher volumes is very much part of. And yes, some of them are rather "colorful," but it goes without saying that non-horn speakers "retract" something from the audible experience in ways that turns it into "coloration" as well.
phusis's avatar
phusis
1,248 posts
 
phusis, you read way too much into my comments. 

I realize that K-horns have characteristics beyond volume and that many people love them. But that's the point - K-horns (and horns in general) have a set of unique qualities and they are a good match for those who value those points. I happen to prefer other speaker designs but have zero problem with the "each to their own" concept. 

Not sure what is so difficult about that point.

Nothing difficult about it, other than what I pointed out earlier. 

I'm glad I was wrong.
phusis's avatar
phusis
1,248 posts
 
Klipsch could be a whole lot better, a whole lot. To say that they are ’crisp’ is an understatement. Klipsch uses very mediocre drivers. Crisp is a good way to describe that tweeter.....Lol. I wonder if anyone who likes Klipsch has ever heard a great compression driver? Most likely not. This is not an insult, simply an invitation to remain open minded. Upgrading the components that create the sound, is the key to making them a truly good speaker. But, those that really love Klipsch think that is sacrilege.

Simon Mears does exactly that, turn the Belle Klipsch into a much better speaker:

http://simonmearsaudio.com/uccello-horn-loudspeakers.html

Everything about them has been bettered; the cabinets (both frame and finish), cross-overs, cables, binding posts, drivers and horns. Not least: the implementation of all parts, and the care that went into making these speakers. The driver of the bass horn (and the folded bass horn itself) is the one that most closely resembles its origin (i.e.: the pre '85 K33E square magnet unit).

Perhaps you could say Mr. Mears of the UK does with the Uccello’s from the Belle what Greg Roberts does with the Volti Audio Vittora’s in the US of the La Scala’s. Haven’t heard the latter, but I own the former, and they are truly wonderful speakers.
phusis's avatar
phusis
1,248 posts
 
..and having heard the 15" that goes into khorns,what is it another by product from Electro voice...come on now..

missioncoonery --

Don’t go throw out the baby with the bath water. Please elaborate on your "having heard the 15 inch" in question - I’d wager there are many other things than the bass driver itself you’ve heard, thereby blurring your ability to distinguish its actual imprinting in the proper implementation. The 15" EV unit is a fine driver, and one tailored to a specific use (i.e.: in folded horns). The current "ersatz" cast unit from Crites is said to improve on the original EV ditto, while maintaining the TS data crucial for its intended use. A Vitavox AK151/152 is no doubt a more appealing driver going by looks, magnet type and weight (at a vastly substantial price!), as is the like from GPA with their, say, 515 driver - all of which are meant for bass/lower mids (folded) horn use. But are they essentially better than their cheaper alternative? The Vítavox driver I would gather, yes, but to what degree? All of these drivers do not sport lavish specs with 4" voice coils, insane magnet sizes and 1000+ watts RMS - for a reason. In fact it would be counter productive.

I’d say your all-out riling against Klipsch here loses some sight of itself..
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