KEF, ProAc, Monitor Audio and others


I've been busy listening to speakers in the 10-15,000 price range and even convinced my wife to join me (not an easy job).  Recently, I've heard the Vandersteen
Treo CT, ProAc D48r,KEF Reference 3, Monitor Audio PL300ii (briefly), Vienna Acoustics Liszt and several others.  I appreciate all the suggestions on this board.  

Some observations: I liked the Vandersteen but would love to consider one of their higher end models.  However, as I posted before, the local dealer doesn't carry those models and the nearest dealer who does is several hundred miles away.  Also, the necessity of electricity for the higher models is problematic for me. I really like the soundstage, imaging and musicality of the KEF Reference 3.  Would like to hear the KEF Reference 5, even though it would stretch my price range, but can't find it at any local dealer.  Some say the 3 is actually better so they don't carry the 5. Didn't like the Liszt compared to the KEF. Plan to hear the Monitor Audio again since I was impressed during a brief listening. Also, I've been told that Revel-- and possibly others--will introduce new models in January at the CES.  Right now, the KEF 3 is at the top of my list and my wife reached the same conclusion.  May wait until January to see what's announced at the CES.  
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Showing 8 responses by bo1972

"The KEF’s are more precise with a more well defined sound stage then the Monitors, the Monitors are a bit softer sounding with the new AMT drivers, also the KEF’s are a more slender cabinet also with the KEF’s you have a bit of room control with the different ports.

This proofs that you don’t know all the properties of sound. I will lend a pair of Kef Ref 3 for a shootout against the Platinum II series. And I will video it with Sony professional. And I also will make an english version of it.

When you use the right amps, cables, sources, conditioners and cables it is very easy to outperform any Kef Reference and Blade speaker. I will proof it on facts. I dare each single person or company for a shootout with Kef.

We can create a stage depth of far over 5 metres with Monitor Audio Platinum. Beside this we can create a stunning level in diversity in height of all voices and instruments.

All the demoes (many) we auditioned with the Kef Reference and Blade proved that the stage height of voices and instruments were almost on the same height. The sage depth was always less than 1 metre. We can proof this by using many different songs. And we can proof it over and over again.

The great thing about audio is that the most convincing and realistic sound and stage will always win. Because the sound and stage what you can hear will always speak the truth!
When you would be aware of all the different properties sound is being formed at, you would have a totally different opinion about the speakers you would like and even would want to buy.

I have done thousands of test in almost 20 years. This is where I earn my money with. I do not see it as work or hobby. It goes so much further than that. Most products and even brands are not capable of creating all the different properties sound is being formed at.

The great thing about music and sound is that all the different properties of it can influence our emotion. And that is why people will always prefer that sound and stage what owns the most different properties.

When you want to reveal all the information of the recording you need an audio system what is able to reveal all the information of the recording.

But........most products and brands in audio are incomplete in properties and this is even based on facts. This means you cannot add what is missing. When a property or different properties are missing the sound and stage will always be incomplete.

When you listen to most systems the facts proof again that in almost all situations they are incomplete. Even when you listen to loudspeakers and brands in loudspeakers you will hear that most are incomplete.

I test each individual product first on DNA. Because I need to know which properties are there. When you create audio based on properties you come so much closer to how music sounds in real. Beside this it also proofs that the level in emotion and intensity is so much higher when a systems can reveal all the different properties of sound.

When you test both the Kef Referende and even Blade on stage depth, you will hear that the stage is rather flat and undeep. It even misses more properties on which sound is being formed at.

I did many shootouts between a 2D and a 3D system. All people prefered a 3D stage. This is very easy to explain. Our hearing can hear sound in a 3D spectrum. That is why it is insane that over 99% of all sold audio systems are still 2D.

In our world 2D is when a system or speaker can build up less than 1 metre of stage depth.

First you need to know all the properties of the speaker you are interested at. You need the right amps, sources, conditioners and cables to create all the different properties sound exist of.

But each single person on this planet will always choose that system what can reveal all the different properties of which sound and music are formed at. They always use the words that it is more intense, emotional and attractive to listen to. Most even call it addictive and you can see this back in the level in use of an audio system. Many say often; we can’t stop listening. This is being created by the fact that when music influences our emotion more, it creates also a different demand.

That is why we will give demoes in 2018 with real conservatorium students to explain how instruments and voices sounds in real. And what real 3D sound is and how it influecnes our emotion. We also want to show people how small and direct both voices and instruments sounds in dimension. We call it intimate focus of voices and instruments.

So we can proof that working by Tru-Fi is superior in realism and most of all that the emotion compared to any audio system what has been created by trial and error is so much more intense.
We sell Monitor Audio Platinum II as well. It is really funny to see how limited most people in audio are.

You need to understand first the full potential of a loudspeaker. You have to know all the properties before you can choose the right stuff and cables.

The facts proof over and over again that most Monitor Audio Platinum speakers are demoed with 2D audio. It is the same as when you put a Ford engine in a Ferrari. I will be a totally different experience.

People hear in real in a 3D spectrum. So it not even more than normal when an audiosystem delivers a 3D spectrum.

The AMT tweeter needs the right cables and equipment. Many pictures proof that people have no idea how to adapt a system to any loudspeaker.

For AMT tweeters you need a different approach as well. But when you use it the right way it is so much better than a ribbontweeter. But....you need to understand how they work the best way.
I am working in sound&vision almost 20 years. And I have done thousands of tests. In real you can hear in a 3D spectrum. This means you can hear sound in depth and even in height.

Most audio products onlu are able to create a lot less than 1 metre of stage depth. This means it will make the stage less deep and wide. It is as voices and instruments are crushed togheter.

The best audio products are able to create a stunning level in a 3D holographic stage. And this also comes a lot closer than how in real we experience music and sound.

I brought many people since 2009 from 2D to 3D sound. It had a hude influence on how often they use their systems. The most used words we hear is that people experience their systems as addictive.

And 3D system does a lot with your human emotion. Sound becomes a lot more intimate and intense when you audition it in a 3D spectrum. You are pulled into the music. It brings you closer to the music

Words are use a lot of our clienst who listen first to a 2D system are; it creates more distance between you and the music. And it is a lot less tangible and apparant.

All Kef demoes we auditioned in shops and shows all proved to create a 2D stage. Beside that many Blade and Reference demoes showed a too much distortion in the middel freq. It created a more harsh sound even at a modest volume level.

When you connect a 2D source or amp to a 3D loudspeaker the endresults still gives you a 2D stage.

When you audition a high level in 3D stage, all instrumentd and voices become so much more tabgible and stand more free in space. In real volices and instruments are very direct and apparant.

When I did shootouts bewteen 2D audio vs 3D audio all people choose for the 3D sound. That is why I stopped selling any kind of 2D audio in 2009. Even women get excited when you demo music in a 3D stage.

But most men come home with a 2D system where voices and instruments are not played tangible and apparant from eachother.

The emotion is inside the music. You only can reveal all the details and emotion when a loudspeaker can reveal all the information of the recording. Most products and brands miss essential parts on which sound is founded.

It depends which amp your dealer will bring you. Because when it is a 2D amp and you also use a 2D source you will listen to a dissabled audio system.

You need the right properties so you can reach all the different talents and properties the Monitor Audio possesses.
In Munic the Paradigm showed  a full flatt 2D stage.  Stage depth is a difficult part which should  be there to listen to a realistic stage.

You only can understand audio when you understand both sound and music. The sound you hear at home of your  own system is being created by all the different properties of each individual part in your system and the acoustics and all other parts who have a negative influence on the sound and stage.

When you cannot think in properties your system will be created bt trial and error. This is the same as russian roulette. There is no foundation on why you made the combination you choose. 

Audio by using the right properties is superior in endresult compared to any audio system created by trial and error. The facts proof over and over again that trial and error systems are incomplete.

Each single audio system whai is incomplete will create a much lower level in emotion and intensity. Because all the different properties of sound can influence our emotion.

Each system what can reveal more information and emotion will be chosen by each single person. Because this is how our emotion works.
Always take as much time as you need. This part of looking for new speakers can create a lot of fun and pleasure. Just enjoy it and will find the sound and stage you like.
Dave is talking from his world in audio. So his ideas are based on his insight and knowledge.

We have met many people at home who spend a lot of money on acoustic panels and they still had many issues. With our Statement Audio Pro-measurement the results are so much more effective.

You always will need amps, sources and speakers who can create a holographic 3D stage well. Most products do not own the right techniques and properties to create it.

And a person who want to sell Isoacoustics footers to create a 3D stage is insane. We are Stillpoints dealer and we love them. And they can make a 3D stage even better. But it will not create a 3D stage when the system has not the right properties.
A 3D stage is only one single part of sound. Sound consists of many other parts. There are enough people who also can create a 3D stage.

The difference is that we stopped selling and creating 2d sound. This is our personal choice. When you want to understand why the sound and stage of your system is what you hear.

There is only one option to understand it. This is that you understand exactly all the different properties of each individual part in your system, the acoustics and the other parts who influence the sound and stage negatively.

Because each different way in trial and error will not make you able to guide and control your system. This is needed to create the sound and stage you would like to own.