Just Curious - About using a AV Receiver as main unit

It doesn't clip. In fact it goes from -100 to +12 db and at 0db it is very loud! Seriously, if you don't have direct experience with the models being spoken about you really have no idea. Its driving my KEF R200s. Kef 1600 center, Kef surrounds and Martin Logan sub effortlessly as far as I can tell. It does get warm but it rocks on movies or music and I 've never heard clipping. When I first got my Kefs and a panasonic dvd multichannel I was playing Come Together in surround and the martin logan was sliding on the floor and you could hear it down the street. No clipping or distortion, just lennons voice clearer then I ever heard it coming from the center channel and amazing drums. That was playing it extremely loud at maybe +4. Aerosmiths SACD of Toys in the Attic breathes new life into the album. People would be blown away if they listened to dsd with good 5.1 speakers being fed 140 watts per channel. Elton John's tumbleweed connection is an absolute revelation compared to its stereo counterpart. One of the best albums I've ever heard.

 

I have an old Denon 4806 as the hub of my system and its incredibly versatile and sounds amazing to me whether I'm playing DSD through Denon link and doing room correction in the digital domain using Audessy or switching through numerous components hooked up for maximum quality playback (ex. Node 2i decoding mqa via its internal dac, Node 2i to external Doge 7 tube dac streaming hi res, Pioneer reference BD09fd playing hi res surround through its Wolfson dacs in dual mode and sending video (only) through HDMI, two channel DSD via Sony EX SACD player or the cd layer as transport to the tube dac, etc., etc. There are practically endless permutations you can explore and compare with a click of your AVR remote. These AVRs can shut off the circuits not being used and as far as I can tell are more versatile. sophistcated, and high quality then alot of stuff sold today and you can find lots of reviews to get the best for pennies on the dollar. The Denon and Pioneer reference quality mid to late 2000s AVR and Blue Rays had separate hdmis for video and sound AND external analog inputs! You are free to play any source hooked up any wau you could possibly need (unlike most of todays stuff with very limited connections). Sure, you can buy a multi thousand dollar prepro but a reference quality Pioneer or Marantze Blue ray might sound just as good for a fraction of the cost. My experience is limited but I seriously doubt I'd be blown away by separates as the original poster stated as powerful and sophisticated as these 3 to 4k Denon's were back in the mid to late 2000s. Of course, cheap AVRs are always crap but u can buy super high quality used for pennies on the dollar these days that wasn't designed for obsolecence like so many of today's products. Sound quality used to be a mainstream thing back in those days. You don't have to buy these botiquey esoteric brands and chotchski's costing thousands for every piece in the audio chain to get good sound. Buy quality used components and put the savings into better speakers. All that being said, I love my new tube dac and its not like anyone is really stuck with the dac the comes in their amplifier.

 
 
 
 

Also, for 4k these days you can stream in dolby vision and run optical to your old AVR in 2 channel, or to play 4k blue rays in surround buy a cheap 4k player and run hdmi to your old AVR and picture is still amazing but not 4k I guess. I'm more a sound person so I'm more impressed with the old players with high end dacs to play 5.1 blue ray audio than I am concerned about picture quality when I can alternatively stream and play 4k dolby vision. That is about the only constraint I can think of in using a mid 2000s high-end AVR (not having 4k + surround at the same time)]. If you looked at the features on one you might be surprised and how they upsample and do sophisticated processing and I'm not talking about cheesy DSP effects either. We are talking decoding dsd, bass management in the digital domain, 24 bit processing, and ability to handle a multitude of popular codecs. I'm sure dolby has some new thing but I haven't been particuarly limited on any media I"ve wanted to play to this date. These things are very deep monstrosities though weighing over 50lbs so that's another BIG constraint for most people. Lots of fantastic opinions and info in this thread. Thanks to the original poster for asking such a great question even if my opinion is in the minority.

https://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_4/denon-avr-4806-receiver-12-2005-part-5.html

This is the benchmark test from Stereophile showing the 4806 does everything well and puts out 181 per channel in 2 channel mode.

This is the model below the flagship the original poster referenced. with even more power and better dacs. A great benefit is there are complete multi hundred page forums and reviews dedicated to the performance and operation of these AVRs because they were so well regarded and popular. You can peruse this info to see if it meets your needs. 

The sheer amount of switching you can do is incredible. I can have the album of a track playing on one channel, cd on another, sacd on another, hi res streaming version on another, blue ray 5.1 on another and switch back and forth between all of these to compare.

As I mentioned before you are not limited to using the dacs in the AV which is stlll some of the best sound you'll probably hear anywhere when letting dsd pass undecoded for the AVR to decode or optionally let your player decode and play through the analog inputs. I'm not knocking separates but most 2 channel systems don't need more than 180 watts per channel. Having a high end AVR switcher in you system provides alot of flexibility and you can always add a tube preamp or outboard tube dac such as I did for two channel. I don't doubt if you spend enough money, separates don't sound superior but where exactly is that line and is it worth it? By definition I suppose an AVR is a compromise, but to me the higher end ones can seem like the best of both worlds.My guess is I'd need to go from mid fi to high end reference speakers to really need separates and I've seen plenty of lower priced high end speakers like Dyna audio etc. being powered by these large AVRs to great effect.

You guys love to exagerrate and speak in generalities. Cheap stereo integrated will not be better simply by virtue of that layout. The highest end AVRs back in their day were made to meet or exceed separates for home theatre and many thought them superior due to additional abilities that greatly affect sound like room correction and internal dsd decoding to reduce jitter. As a consequence of their high prices some also had very good preamplifier sections matching the best home theatre separates. Consequently many sounded really good in 2 channel mode. A relatively cheap stereo integrated is not going to have 180 watts per channel for one thing, and quality is commensurate with any components original when new price tag. Buying used you can often get much higher quality for the same cost of buying new but you have accept the risk. Just saying if you do your research and find a good example it can pay off. Yes, nobody wants them anymore but that is due more to size and complexity of use than sound quality. If your willing to take the time to set one up properly you may really appreciate the versatility. For example, extra channels can be reassigned to biamp speakers. I’m not sure my KEFS would be able to handle the extra power but some people say this can be a performance improvement and I have that option.

Ordered a fully balanced Yamaha se - 2200 integrated recently which should have an advantage over my old Denon AVR in terms of sound quality for music. I love researching audio equipment and this amp will allow me to hook up my tube dac using XLR to take advantage of all 8 tubes. Figured I'd take the advice I was given to see what's possible with a good 2 channel integrated because I do mostly listen to music via cd, SACD, blue ray, and hi res streaming. I'll report back with my impressions in a couple of weeks. I've heard KEF R 3s scale well to better quality comoonents so I'm hoping the same holds true for my R300s (similiar previous model)

The Yamaha as-2200 arrived yesterday. The first thing I noticed is it accentuated the top end and sounds more refined overall. Playing rock like Led Zeppelin I didn't think the difference was night and day but liked what I heard. Today I hooked up the tube dac via XLR, put on some Gino Vanelli (early jazzy stuff) and woah...this amps got rythm! For the ultimate test I put on the Body Heat album by Quincy Jones. The effect of going through XLR is dramatic. I'm in the middle of the soundstage with background singers and harmonica sounding like it is coming from behind me. I also hooked it up to pass through my home theatre and can't tell much difference (still sounds excellent!). My conclusion is adding a 2 channel amp to your existing AVR can be worth it but primarily if you can also upgrade your connection and other aspects to make the most out of the difference. Doesn't change my opinion of how great my Denon sounds though, especially decoding dsd but indeed it makes a difference for stereo when streaming. I probably need more time for the Yamaha's highs to settle down just a bit or try dsd to completely fall in love with it. Doubt I'd made the jump if I hadn't also been adding XLR and activating additional tubes in my dac. The only problem is this amp has no line level input for a sub. Going to try using RCA to the preout and then hopefully it will play when using the yamaha alone and with the denon. Not really missing the sub right now playing Carol King and Folgleberg's beautiful acoustic songs. This amp has plenty of punch!

Well the Yamaha is broken in now. I have to say, there is something special about running your speakers full range in stereo without a sub to see what they can do. I like percussion and in my bedroom the R300's really slam on drums. I'll be moving so the system will be going in a family room soon and I may have to go 2.1 but I hope not as I'm enjoying this option. Haven't really a b tested with the Denon but thats apples and oranges anyway considering I was using 2.1. Given the Denon was overated at 140w and the Yamaha is underated at 90 it doesn't seem to be a huge difference between the two, but it did allow me to run xlr from the dac and passthrough the Denon so its worth it for the options it opened up. The cool looking VU meters on the Yamaha really spice up the looks too!