Hi Rrog, indeed I have been more than delighted with the progressive sonic/musical advances of each Rowland amp I have owned this far... I only hope that the M925 -- which I should receive before long -- maintains the happy trend. |
Guido, Nice system and impressive specs on the M725. Everything from that company has been terrific. |
Hi Rrog, my system currently consists of Esoteric X-01, Rowland Criterion, Rowland M725, and Vienna Acoustics Die Muzik.... Guido |
What speakers are you using the M725 with? |
Hi Rrog, I am always interested in Rowland lore, and furthering my theoretical knowledge of those Rowland amps that I have not had the fortune of experiencing in my own system.
However, if you were specifically asking if I am considering the acquisition of M5 or M2 for my own use, my current plan is to replace my Rowland M725 monos with a pair of the new M925 monos. G. |
So, are you interested in either of these amplifiers or was this a test of my ability to discern the differences in stereo equipment? |
Well Rrog, you expressed your personal findings about two classic Rowland musical battlewagons, and I must thank you for sharing your experiences and opinions.
If you had had the opportunity of operating the two devices in identical contexts, I might have been able to venture some conjectures as to the origins of your findings.
Saluti, G. |
That's it? After all of that all you can say is thank you for your insight? |
Hi Rrog, thank you for your insight! Guido |
I am not a reviewer and I don't pretend to be, but I will try to explain my experience with these two amplifiers.
I compared the Model 2 and Model 5 Rowland amps with several speakers and the results were always the same. The Model 2 sounds more agile and quicker than the Model 5. The midrange is more detailed and more natural sounding. High frequencies cut through complicated high energy music with ease. In contrast the Model 5 is a little sluggish sounding by comparison. Although the Model 5 seemed to have more heft or weight at the bottom end bass was more audible at any volume setting with the Model 2. The Model 2's presentation was more to my liking with a larger more open soundstage and a relaxed sound that made you think it was a much bigger amp.
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Well yes, I would agree with you Rrog.... And that is why I am comfortable to some extent discussing sonic differences among M7, M201, M501, Continuum 500, M302, M312, M301, M625 (original iteration), and M725... Because I have head the opportunity of either using them in my own system, or doing some live comparisons of some kind in some other systems.
As I have absolutely no experience with M2 and M5, I was hoping you would be able to enlighten me on the differences between these two devices, and the reasons for your preference for M2 over M5.
Saluti, G. |
Are you going to duplicate my system? I think you should buy one and see if you like it. If you don't like it you can sell it and buy another one. That's what I do and I think that is the only way to find what you like. |
Yes Rrog, comparisons between devices are more reliable if independent variables are minimized. Hence my question about running M2 and M5 in the same systems. |
Guidocorona, Are you serious? |
........it just came down to, I could not afford the ''newer'' Jeff Rowland equipment. I lost interest after the I bought the 501's when they came out and was not happy at all with them. Classe had come out with some new products that sounded great and were within my budget. I have all Pursit Audio Design 20th Anniversary cables and PAD Limited Edition Power cords. |
Garebear, Thanks a lot for your useful experiences, as I understand the Classe gear was better than some JRDG gear in your system, right? Can you let me know some detail comparisons?
Btw, what was your match speaker cables for them?
Thanks again, |
Aspac - I had a Classe CA 2200 along with the Classe CA700 driving the Avalon Eclipse's for at least three years....the Classe CA 2200 was a very sweet sounding, but detailed amp and really worked well with the Avalon's. The Classe gear replaced ( all of the different ) Rowland gear I had during that time which included the Rowland Model 5, Model 2, 102 and the 501's. |
I think Ayre sources from Cardas. Then there was that whole Spectral / MIT / Avalon 2/3D period. |
USpac, for reasonably priced wire products, I have enjoyed very much the Furutech Evolution 2 series. See the review that I have written for Positive Feedback:
http://positive-feedback.com/Issue45/furutech.htm |
Back to my post, even I have just puchased Classe CA-2200 for my Avalon Eclipse, but still want to know if it was a good choice or not? (The amp is in shipping progress)
Anyone can advise me? Btw show me the name of best speaker cable under 1k for them,
Thanks all, |
Thank you Rrog, have you exercised M2 and M5 in the same system? And what did the two systems consist of?
G. |
Guidocorona, I owned the Model 2 and a close friend owned the Model 5. We did extensive comparing between the two amplifiers. |
Uspac, I checked the Rowland Model 2 manual: there is no indication that the amplifier can be readily bridged to mono.... No, there is no switch.
Instead, the manual of Model 5 explains clearly how to switch the M5 amp to mono, as I have posted in detail a few days ago in this thread.
Guido
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Any one here help me this question: Does the JRDG model 2 have a switch from stereo mode to mono mode? So it will double the power.
Thanks in advance |
Thank you RROG, I will no longer ask you what you like better about M2 over M5... Can you tell me if you owned either amps, and how long have you used them in your own system? |
All you can do at this point is buy both amplifiers and decide for yourself. That's what I do and that's what buying used equipment is all about. You can buy it and if you don't like it you can sell it without losing a ton of money.
I wish I could help you more, but I am not a reviewer and I don't pretend to be like many people on this forum. However, I know some reviewers who call me for advice about equipment. I don't go into detail with those guys either.
One thing I have noticed is when something sounds good everyone agrees it sounds good, but when the sound is not right opinions become devided. |
Hi Rrog, you have convinced me this far that you much prefer M2 over M5. Unfortunately, not knowing your sonic and musical preferences, nor what parameters are important for you, nor how much experience you have had with either amps, I remain totally confused on the audible differences between the two devices. G. |
I owned the Avalon Eclipse in the past and they do have something special about them. Properly set up and with the right equipment and source material, they were truly holographic. I actually sold them to my brother at a deep discount just to keep them in the family.
I cannot comment specifically with regard to the two amps mentioned, though older Rowland amps were always suggested to me by those I trusted as great matches with the Eclipse. The Classe CA-400 amp did an admirable job; the Levinson ML27.5...not so much. My favorite was a Manley NeoClassic 250 and used this amp for most part.
Good luck...the right amp can really make those Eclipses sing! |
Hi Guidocorona, The Model 2 does everything better than the Model 5. It is an outstanding amplifier. |
Hi Rrog, admittedly I have experienced neither M2 nor M5 directly... Please share your experience with both amps with us... Have you owned them both? What sonic/musical parameters of M2 you prefer over M5?
G. |
True, the Rowland Model 5 has more power than the Model 2, but they are not the same amplifiers. The Model 2 has superior sound. You might like having more power at first, however, that will wear off very quickly. The Model 2 will be enjoyable over the long term because there is something very special about it that the other amplifiers do not have. Bryston is not in the running. |
USpac, Rowland Model 5 is a much more powerful amp than Model 2, and can be bridged to mono operation if you like even more power. Here are some of the M5 technical specs clipped out from the manual:
Output power
150 watts RMS continuous, 8 ohms
300 watts RMS continuous, 4 ohms
475 watts RMS continuous, 2 ohms
Damping Factor
Greater than 175, 20 Hz to 20 kHz, 8 ohms
Output Current
40 amps peak, continuous
90 amps peak, 0.1 ohm, 20 msec, 1 kHz
Concerning bridging to mono ops, here is what the Model 5 manual states:
"Bridged-mono operation with a single-ended output preamplifier
The following is the procedure for each amplifier: Insert the interconnect from your
preamp into the right channel non-inverting input. There is a small switch, labeled
"BRIDGE," located between the right channel XLR input and the AC standby switch; flip
this switch up, into the "ON" position. Insert one of the XLR shorting plugs into the right
channel XLR input. Connect the "hot" conductor of your speaker cable to one of the right
channel outputs; connect the "ground" conductor of the cable to one of the left channel
outputs.
Bridged-mono operation with a balanced output preamplifier
The following is the procedure for each amplifier: Insert the output of your preamplifier
into the right channel differential XLR input. There is a small switch, labeled "BRIDGE,"
located between the right channel XLR input and the AC standby switch; flip this switch
up, into the "ON" position. Connect the "hot" conductor of your speaker cable to one of
the right channel outputs; connect the "ground" conductor of the cable to one of the left
channel outputs. (NOTE: Do not use the XLR shorting plugs with this application.)"
G. |
Vicdamone - you are correct on both points |
Bo1972, frankly this is 1st time I heard the Eclipse has 1st & 2nd version. I just purchased them from:
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-avalon-eclipse-los-angeles-p-up-sale-only-eclipse-classic-2013-03-23-speakers-90015
So what is the differences and what version my speakers is?
All: Model 2 (75wpc) & model 5 (150wpc), which one better for my speakers?
Thanks a lot. |
Garebear, I love my Eidolons but there is something the Eclipse does that is very special. Sealed cabinet two way? Charles Hanson right? |
Avalon speaker can give a wide and deep stage. So you need an amp what is capable of giving a 3 dimensional image. Bryston is a 2 dimensional brand. |
USPAC, the M2 manual asserts that the amp delivers 75 Watts over 8 Ohms and 150 Watts over 4 Ohms. Your speakers having an average of 6 Ohms would enjoy an average of max 110W from the amp. M2 appears to deliver a maximum continuous current of 20 Amperes with a peak at 35 Amperes.
If you were concerned about these ratings, you may want to look at a more powerful amplifier.
G. |
Sorry Rrog, I have only Mcintosh C42 in my current system. The 1st step in my plan is buying new pow amp for Eclipse, then the 2nd step will be new pre amp.
After that, Mc2205, C42 and MCD201 must go. |
ASPAC - IS USED A MODEL 5 AND THEN A MODEL 10. THE MODEL 2 DOES HAVE THE OVERALL CURRENT - BUT IT DOES HAVE ITS LIMITS
RROG - YOU ARE CORRECT THE ECLIPSE'S ARE 6 OHM AND NOT 4 OHM AS I HAD PREVIOUSLY INDICATED. THEY DO LIKE THE POWER BUT CAN BE DRIVEN BY THE 75 WATT ROWLAND MODEL 2 VERY NICELY |
Aspac, You ignored my question regarding what preamp you will be using. You should have included that information with your original post. IE if you are using a Classe preamp the responses to your post may be different.
Avalon Eclipse is not 8 ohms. It is 6 ohms. This has a lot to do with available power from the Rowland amp.
Classe DR amplifiers are much better than the later Classe amplifiers. |
Garebear, thanks a lot for your post, they're so useful. Which JRDG model did you use with Eclipse? I ask so because my budget not enough for bigger JRDG, while I'm wondering about 75wpc of Model 2.
Another thing, can I use 2 JRDG model 2 as monoblock? I may buy one more if I have a chance in future. |
There is a pair of bryston 7b st amps for sale here for $2,500; how would those sound paired to these speakers? I'm thinking they'd have good power, right? |
The User manual of the Rowland M2 amplifier in PDF format is still available online. It lists all tech specs towards the end of the document:
http://jeffrowlandgroup.com/kb/questions.php?questionid=495
Saluti, G. |
Do you use the first version of the Eclipse or the second improved version? |
What are you using for a preamp? |
Good point Vicdamone - it was pre-emptive on my part but the fact that the tweeter can not be replaced was the main reason I sold my Eclipse. Otherwise, a great speaker and still one of Avalon's best |
It seems I should go ahead with JRDG model 2, but still want to hear another suggestions |
This would be my choice for driving those Eclipes. I've heard this combination and its very nice. M200s pop up every couple of months. The last thing you want is to under power them and blow an irreplaceable tweeter.
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-mfa-m200-power-amps-tube-monoblock-excellent-working-condition-2013-01-10-amplifiers-92683-westminster-ca |
In my opinion you are not comparing apples to apples. The Rowland Model 2 out classes the Classe and it should be plenty of power for the 2 way Avalons. |
I would go for a Pass labs X-250. |
