Jazz for aficionados

Rok, the only kid I had at that time was me, and I sent him to the best lounges in Detroit, St. Louis, Chicago, and Atlanta.

I had a good job and didn't save a nickel, plus that, I wish I could do it all over again.

Thank you Frogman for clearing that up, in a way that only a musically educated person could.

To that I might add, Bobby Timmons "Moanin" communicated the title of the tune to those who were down on their luck, and all they could do was "Moan".

This is my favorite by "Zap Mama", and now we get to see them;


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pUk3O81W1U


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRp6sfYRXEA

Absolutely no one mentions the two "Moanin" things, other than to accept the fact that they are different.

Rok, "liberal, conservative" is a truly foolish dichotomy, that's because it puts working class people in a camp where they don't belong.

Let's try "good, bad"; "honest, dishonest"; "rich, poor (working class); those are better dichotomies.

I'm going to take that "purse snatcher" liberal, conservative where you want it to go. First, the guy was poor, dumb, from one parent family (no parental guidance); let's face it, this guy didn't ask to be born; he woke up one day and there he was, in the middle of the ghetto, and if snatching purses was what he had to do in order to survive; look out world.

My view looks at millions of people; people with good jobs don't snatch purses. People with good jobs are not homeless. I was in Detroit when people drove new cars, dressed elegantly, lived in very nice homes, and enjoyed the best entertainment.



While dumb people were arguing over irrelevant BS, rich people were shipping jobs offshore. That's when one day, the working class woke up high and dry; what you see is what you get; tent city LA, crime city everywhere.

Pjw, Frogman brought up a very contentious point in regard to "Moanin"; as far as I'm concerned there is only one true "Moanin", and that's Bobby Timmons "Moanin". My comment has to do with the title, not the music.

Ditto on what Frogman said about the music.


Jazzmeia Horn is truly fantastic; she captures the essence of the tunes she sings, and I will buy her music.

Rok, working class also refers to those who are unemployed and can't find a job; whether you like it or not, people all around this globe are going to do what they figure they have to do in order to survive; meaning, hookers got to hook, and purse snatchers got to snatch.

I see now, the conservative view is "If you can't find a job, just be a good little boy and lay down and starve". It ain't going to happen dude.

Rok, let me tell you what conservatives hate more than anything; that's when the person who moves into the new subdivision that offers homes with 3 bedrooms, 2 bath, play room. 2 car garage, swimming pool, plus subdivision security, has Black skin.

It's a funny thing Rok, I sold real estate, I know.

I doubt if you will find too many "purse snatchers" here in Tokyo for a multitude of reasons;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3LpzQJ31OQ&list=RDc3LpzQJ31OQ&start_radio=1&t=52


I talked to Frank Gant, Ahmad Jamal's drummer, in Chicago, who told me they had plane tickets for Tokyo; they had to leave the states in order to make a living. He was as easy to talk to as your next door neighbor.

This is a laid back trio and interview of one of the finest jazz pianist.

Rok, here we have a new jazz musician that I know hardly anything about, but I'll bet big money that he's going to be successful;


      https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/21/fashion/weddings/a-good-combo-for-this-jazz-musician.html



Here we have a blues musician that I know a lot about; I used to see him every weekend at a club in St Louis.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkzuJzZDFXs&list=PL-aVCoKV6XpXPP26nzUvd4RqO6qBvG5kB


I wonder what Albert would have done if he couldn't play that guitar?

Schubert although I don't have a degree in sociology, I began educating myself during Kennedy's term in office; he was solving these problems, not by giving disadvantaged people money, but by making sure they had access to jobs, and even on welfare he made young ladies go to school in order that they might become employed.

Since I was the same age as those ladies, I talked to them, and they went to real classes in preparation for secretarial work.

Here in St. Louis, beginning pimps, hustlers, and other criminals traded those corners in for Blue McDonnel Aircraft badges. Besides going to jail, crime is risky business in many other ways. There is nothing like having a decent job, getting a paycheck every Friday and not having to look over your shoulder.

Since this countries founding African Americans were discriminated against; Kennedy told defense contractors, I want 10% Black employment, or no contract; think about what that did to unemployment, as well as preventing new criminals.

That was way too much progress for the South, that's why he was assassinated. Since that time divide and conquer has been the rule of politicians. Southerners who should have been voting for working people, voted for rich people until we are where we are, and there is nothing anyone can do about, all the good paying jobs are elsewhere.

Sorry about your dilemma Mary-Jo; if I were physically and financially able, I would come and join you.

"MOX NIX",

and with that, I return this thread to it's original purpose.


"The Jazztet" was one tight nit group; Curtis Fuller - trombone, Benny Golson - tenor saxophone, Lee Morgan - trumpet, Wynton Kelly - piano, Paul Chambers - bass.


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py7URoogRj0

Frogman, I found your post very uplifting; it does my heart a world of good to hear that one of my favorite jazz musicians is doing well.

Yes, I'm very aware of what a great composer he is. I remember that LP very well; don't have it presently, but I remember it.

I hope I have your favorite vocal version of "I Remember Clifford"; she's beautiful, I can't think of a better version.

Schubert, that Byrd trumpet sounded heavenly, so did Frank Foster's tenor sax; that's the best version of that song I've heard.

From the very beginning, conversation on this thread has varied and I have no objection to that, but I know Frogman has wanted to limit the discussion to music.

In these times with so many bad things going on that affect young people in this country so adversely, I think we would be remiss in our responsibility to them, not to vary the topic occasionally. Maybe go down more than one track at the same time.



The only point I wanted to make in regard to JFK is the correlation between crime and unemployment. There are a multitude of problems linked to unemployment, any intelligent person can understand that.



Camden NJ The poorest city?
Camden, N.J., is the poorest city in the nation. According to figures from the U.S. Census Bureau, nearly 32,000 Camden residents live below the poverty line. For a family of four, the poverty line is an annual household income of about $22,000.Sep 21, 2012


All anyone has to do is follow the list of problems that exist in that city and they can plainly see the correlation between poverty and a multitude of problems.

When we have so many Camden New Jersey's in this country, the citizens of this country should be concerned.


I understand anyone's objection to varying the topic like this, so feel free to voice your opinion.

Frogman due to your unconcern for the problems that plague the lower middle class especially, which numbers in the many millions of people, I'm inclined to believe you live in what is equivalent to "The Gold Coast" in Chicago. Apparently there are many here on the "Gon" that qualify for the "Gold Coast", that's good, but if rich people like JFK didn't care for those who are less fortunate, this country would be in much worse shape than it is.

It's possible that living in such an environment blinds one to the horrors of poverty. Poverty is incredibly more distressing than it was when I was young. It meant living in a crappy house and not having the best clothes, it didn't mean you or your kid accidentally getting shot when you walked out your front door. The saddest part about this is the fact, I don't see any way out of such a neighborhood.

We always have a trillion dollars for war, but nothing for the poor. As everyone knows, I have cancer, which meant surgery, chemotherapy plus more doctors and exams than I can count. All of that means sky high medical bills, more than I can possibly pay. Please, I'm not asking for sympathy, or financial help, I just want you to know what happens when a person gets a catastrophic illness. Even if a middle class person had money in the bank, it all just flew out the medical window. It shouldn't be like this.



No, I haven't forgotten the original intent of the thread;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u23Etcb-L9M


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqn3PF_DcSg

 

The Song of Delilah;


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkFSM9Frx3w


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6JghaB-4-M


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIotBiSa1DE


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt_fmhtePoc

A strange and mystifying experience; I was at a New Years Eve party, and the fellow sitting across from me began a conversation. It was the kind of nothing conversation one would strike up with a stranger. I responded appropriately to whatever he was talking about, but I looked into his eyes and became frightened. I looked away and began a thought conversation with myself.

The party hasn't really started, I haven't been drinking, this guy is well dressed, he's about 25, I'm not gay, but I would say the guy was even good looking. Why do I get frightened every time I look into his eyes?

He had a soft smile that never changed, he was soft spoken, but he seemed to be somewhere else when he talked. Meanwhile I'm trying to deal with something that I had never experienced before; fear, every time I looked into a persons eyes. The party was just beginning and he didn't know anyone, while I knew everyone, so I made him acquainted with some of the other guests, and avoided looking into his eyes.

The only thing I discovered about that young man was the fact that he had just got back from Vietnam. We were bringing in the year 69.

In the 80's "The American Dream" was alive and well; I know, because I sold The American Dream; 3 bedroom, 2 bath, 2 car garage, a playroom, in addition to the living room of course; all in a nice subdivision where the kids could play and ride their bikes in safety.

"Baby Face Willette" was a jazz musician who lived for his music; he was also a friend of mine. I’m writing this post in honor of his memory, when he played the biggest stage in St. Louis; that’s center stage Fair St. Louis on July 4, 1969.

He got an incredible right up in news papers, but I can’t find anything to verify that fact. That was consistent with so much of "Face’s" life. I can’t even verify the incredible music he was playing that Summer; none of it was recorded. Fortunately there is a record in my memory to verify this incredible jazz musician and the music he was playing that Summer.



He was looking for a place to stay, and I told him I had a spare bedroom in my bachelor apartment and he moved in. When we greeted at breakfast, he did most of the talking while I listened. There were a lot of thoughts going through my mind while he talked; for example (How do you just wake up "cool", he took a shower and got dressed the same as me, but he’s dressed "cool"; how does he do that?. He even talks "cool"; is that another gift that jazz musicians have?

That day we went to scout places for future gigs. He introduced me as his manager, saying I was the silent type and didn’t talk much . Fortunately, he was very well known on the jazz circuits in St. Louis. He talked to the person in charge of hiring while I listened; nodding approval or frowning in disagreement based on his body language.

We didn’t have any trouble getting our first gig, now all we needed was the rest of the band. I was thinking "This is impossible"; we got the gig, and we’re supposed to be jammin on the stand in just a few days.

We went back to the apartment and he got on the phone and called the "Musicians Union". At any rate, on the day of the gig, one hour before show time, a drummer and a guitar player showed up. "Ain’t no way this can work", I thought.

Here I am, sitting right there, and listening to every word said, and sound they made with their instruments for an hour, and understanding nothing.

From the first notes, this musical trio had the crowd.  For six years, I had followed "Face", but this music was new, it was like "Bird" on organ, fast and articulate, without one slurred note. As I listened, I began to have visions of how my fortunes could change as his manager; just imagine notes coming from an organ as fast as notes coming from "Bird’s" sax, without one note slurred.

We did pretty good all Summer long, until "Face" got sick at the end of August; my dreams of riches, and his career was over because he could no longer make the gigs.


When we parted, neither one of us realized how tight a bond we had formed; jazz musicians evidently have a hard time dealing with their feelings, because that was the only time he fumbled. My dreams of riches vanished, and even more important, what would be my friends future?


There is no recorded music of his that resembles what he was playing that Summer, so just find whatever music you like the best by "Face".

Keegiam, your point is very well stated; the Republican Party played Southerners like a banjo, all they had to do was throw something into a bill about Black people and they got the poor Southerners vote, even when it was against their own interest.

Their racist stupidity affected all working class people adversely; the Democratic Party even shifted to the right in order to get their vote, plus the unions were weakened. Strong unions and a strong Democratic Party would have fought tooth and nail before allowing all those manufacturing jobs to leave this country. Those jobs meant people without a college education could earn a decent living.




I missed the bus that the VA provided to get from JB (VA facility in deep south county where rich people live) to the VA in the city. This meant I had to catch public transportation back to North County where I live, that’s a long way with many bus transfers to get home, did not have a clue how to do this.

After walking and finally reaching a bus stop, and catching a bus, I sat next to a young white gentleman and told him my dilemma. He was very helpful and told me that he would guide me as far as he was going. We had a long ride, and a long pleasant conversation. The reason I mention race, is because his story was the same as any young working class Black man who couldn’t afford to go to college.

In deep South County, they can’t get anybody to work fast food places because no rich parent would allow his kid to work at one even if the kid wanted to. This young man told how much travel time it took to get from where he lived in the city, to his job, and that at times he felt like all he did was ride the bus and work, but that he lived in a nice apartment (which took most of his check, no money to party) and he felt that it was worth it.

He also gave me detailed instructions on how to transfer to various buses that would get me home. His informative conversation in regard to the life of a young working class person made the long ride to my next transfer stop quite pleasant; but deep down, I felt pain because I knew a young intelligent man like him should have been in college, not working in a fast food joint on a nowhere job.

https://www.google.com/search?q=st.+louis+homicides&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS858US858&oq=st.+louis+homic&aqs=chrome.0.0l5j69i57.15871j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Rok, if you ever have any opinions against war, you had better keep them to yourself if you're at the VA. Doctors can make bad things happen to you, they follow orders; I don't know who gives the orders, ask the eye in the sky.

" I agree with most of your sociological statements. The politicians in control of this country pit individuals against each other with labels like liberal and conservative and the general population falls for it. meanwhile the rich and large corporations control this country Lock Stock & Barrel. The rich get richer and the poor and the middle class get drunk."

nsp, you understood exactly where I'm coming from. Barack Obama bailed out Wall street, gave billions to corporations, and Southerners called him a Socialist; that lets us know everything we want to know about Southerners.

The corporations are firmly in control of both parties, and the class struggle we are now engaged in will have to be waged without Southerners; just scratch them off.

The problems we have are so monumental, that I don't know how to proceed in order to make progress, but some things are for certain, we must face these problems and we must identify these problems; only then can we began to solve them.

Thank you Frogman.

BTW,  when that hand pops up on the chart, if you click it, that will expand the chart to give you a better view.

Jafant,I don't even watch myself for the United States Government, so why should I watch myself for Southerners? Although Mississippi is the poorest state in the union, and it's a known fact that poor people are quick to get needlessly violent, maybe I should heed your warning.

BTW, I told "Deep State" that everyday was a good day to die. They tried to accommodate me by causing my death by "natural causes"; no one would know, except the assassin doctor that injected the infection or whatever that caused my death.

Been there, done that, and I’m still alive. It’s only as a result of "Serendipity" that I’m alive.

Does anyone know what a one on one correlation is? I'll give you an example; when the sun comes up, we have daylight. When the sun goes down, we have darkness. If the sun never set, we would have perpetual daylight. If the sun never came up we would have perpetual darkness.

More one on one correlations, the higher the price of food and gas, the less money citizens have for other things; food and gas must be purchased even before the rent is paid, those two items are essential necessities.

When the prices of those two item went sky high, many people could only buy food and gas; that meant they had no money to spend at the shopping mall, that meant stores in the mall went out of business; charts will provide a one on one correlation to this fact.

When the price of food and gas was "artificially manipulated"; I pointed this out, that's when "Deep State" decided yours truly was a problem.


     

https://wealthisbeingtranfered.wordpress.com/2012/06/12/wealth-is-being-transferred-from-us-to-them/

Now could not be a better time to be a combination "audiophile jazz aficionado"; even this "Lockdown" thing is working perfectly, everything ugly is sealed out, and all the beautiful music is sealed in.

The music on my old records is sounding brand new as a result of upgrades on the analog rig; this enables me to travel back in time without delay, to a much better time.



"Speak Low" is one of my favorite songs, and thanks to my play list I can hear several different versions in series.

Speak low. When you speak, love
Our summer day
Withers away
Too soon, too soon
Speak low. When you speak, love
Our moment is swift
Like ships adrift
We're swept apart too soon
Speak low, darling, speak low
Love is a spark
Lost in the dark


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4-TDkdu5ds


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiIb0TZbLOg


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BW2ACd6w2U



Each version conveys different aspects of the same song.



Now for a different song "Close Your Eyes"


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnTdGw9jDVI


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NkT5GZpQYU



Happiness is an elusive element, I intend to get my share, and I hope you get yours.

Pathology: that's the study of disease; the science of the causes and effects of diseases.

In addition to prosecuting and punishing murders, they should be studied, the same as a disease. When there were only a few, the present system of dealing with them was fine, but now we have an epidemic of murders. A totally separate agency, in addition, to law enforcement should be set up to discover "WHY".

In a DEMOCRACY, every single citizen has a responsibility to oversee this form of government. The citizens in this country have shirked that responsibility.

As insane and out of control as things have gotten, many think it's too late, while others think, "It ain't my job"; but it is your job.

Presently, there is an epidemic of murder. There is also an epidemic of drug use, could they be linked? While I know those two items are connected in one way; that's the fight for who is going to sell drugs in a given area, that in no way explains all the other murders.


      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate


Politicians and corporations have colluded to make the wealth of this country theirs, they have even colluded to take money from us individually by manipulating the price of food, gasoline, and everything else. I gave concrete evidence of this in my last post. What are you going to allow them to take next before you get concerned?

Pryso, if that song is as "trite" as you perceive it, I'm positive so many great jazz artists wouldn't take the time to record it.


Your comment in regard to Albert King totally eluded me.

Nsp, after reading your thoughtful post, I feel compelled to respond.

If things were "Normal" in this country, I could stay on the subject of jazz, but everything is very abnormal in regard to the working class in this country, and anyone who can't see it has blinders on.

Back in the 80's, I donated my time as a technician to get a TV station for the homeless going. During that time I observed "who" was homeless. Homelessness is a lifestyle for "Winos"; naturally they were present; very very few, what I call "normal" people were homeless, and when they were, we helped them get jobs, and their own dwelling.

People with mental problems should be in institutions, not wandering the streets homeless.


In the 80's, I also sold "The American Dream"; that's a nice home in a nice suburb where the kids could feel free to play and ride their bikes without fear of a stray bullet.

A job at any of the auto manufacturing plants, or aircraft plant would qualify one for this dream. You have no idea how important that dream is. That dream has become obsolete for far too many people in this country.



I like the way the jazz conversations are going, but since my mind is going in other directions, there's not much I can add; but I do enjoy reading the posts, and possibly buying some of the music.

Schubert, people have fought more hopeless wars than this one.


"In a country where the Supreme Court ruled a corporation is a person with all the rights of any person , unique to the world , and their lobbyists write
most acts of Congress there will be no change ever ."

You said a mouthful Schubert.

Schubert, there is a possibility that it's too late already, and with that, I refer back to Jazz.

Schubert, you have encapsulated the biggest parts of the problem: A. this is a corporatocracy, B. As you put it "deep seated values"; as I interpret that; you might as well be talking to a block of concrete.

On the other side of the ledger, we have multitudes all over this country who are enduring the worst hardships in my lifetime, and I’m an old man. People are living in third world conditions, whole cities full of them; I feel their pain. In the richest most powerful country on the planet.

There is one group we’ve left out, and they’re the one’s who were living on "The Gold Coast" when all this misery started; they have actually moved on up to beyond my comprehension.

When primarily jazz musicians were heroin addicts, the only cure was prison, but now we have young people all over this country addicted and overdosing. Is prison the answer for them?



Lets talk about the people who don’t want to discuss these problems (to exclude everyone on this thread); the politicians want us to believe everything is just "hunky dory" since they’re doing just fine.

As a person who is aware of when and how the multitudes were fleeced, and being a witness to the incredible suffering that’s going on all across this country as a result of that fleecing, I am compelled to do my part in exposing all the factors responsible for this hell on earth that many are living.

In my opinion, as good as the late and great Pepper Adams was, he always sounded better with Donald Byrd, or Mingus.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIu87qCZnJ4


Although that might be an exception, the rest of his best is with Donald Byrd or Mingus;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jpFtZ9KmvI


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1JXuN13l6A


Mingus brought out the best in everybody.

Once again Schubert, I must comment on your brilliant post.


The psychological aspects of slavery and "Jim Crow" are alive and well, there is no past.

Fortunately, some of the best works by lesser known artists have been posted. I would like to keep that going by posting "Sonny Criss"


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crhYor3nbvo


"The Isle of Celia"; that's an island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean where I am stranded for life with the fascinating and beguiling "Celia".


     

Frogman, throughout this thread, there has been nothing more consistent than our differing opinions.

Schubert, I'm glad you added "Still breathing"; he certainly caught my ear.

While the best artists have been posted, their best works have not. This is just one person's opinion.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4mNF1G8g6A


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXZWbr2fFrU

I would like to point out an artist that I don't know from "Adam's house cat"; Dan Wilson on guitar. Everybody knows Joey DeFranco, but how many people know Dan Wilson?


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ3f1Y8Aw_U

Rok, have you ever heard of "The Phenomenology of Guist?" I sat at a table where two college professors were discussing it, and although I listened intently, I couldn't quite grasp what it was about. After much studying, and observing "Hegel's Concept of Geist", 20 years later, I finally understood it.

How remarkably simple it was after I understood it. In a nutshell, it states that each man's "reality" is determined by his "Phenomenology of Guist". That means that your reality is determined by what you, "Billy Bob and Bubba", discussed over a quart of moonshine in Mississippi.

And since they have ascertained it to be the truth, there can be no doubt about it.

Does anybody remember Gene Siskel and Roger Ebert? They were two of the best movie critics; while they differed a lot, when they were in agreement, it was time to buy some movie tickets.

"Being poor, lack of finances, does not make you a killer."

Rok, when I was a kid, that statement was true; being poor meant that you lived in a crappy house, and didn't have the best clothes; but on this year of 2019, poverty in the wrong place can be a death sentence.

If the Gods picked any number of hard core poverty stricken inner city Ghettos; including Frogman's New York City, poverty can be a death sentence; kill or be killed.

But just like in Chicago, those who live on the Gold Coast couldn't care less about those who live in less fortunate parts of the city.

Every man for himself and God for us all; but when ever you get through, every him or her is going to do whatever it takes to survive one more day.

nsp, I made a number of jazz posts and you didn't comment on any of them, why did you comment on this post that was meant for Rok?