nsp, it seems we are both curious about Alex's collection; he has records so unique that it seems only a native of the South Side of Chicago in the late 50's would own them. South Side Soul is just such a record, it captures the spirit and feel of neighborhoods in that part of Chicago so distinctly, that the music takes you back in time, and you can visualize being there, here is an example; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViAsMZhJX1E Ahmad Jamal was the house band on 64 and Cottage Grove where he recorded his famous album at the "Pershing Lounge", and I lived one block from there with my older cousin. One day I saw Dinah Washington coming out of the lounge and getting into her brand new continental with the spare on the trunk; it was that kind of place. South Siders who were there at that time have a day that they honor this musician every year. How did a record so unique come into Alex's possession? Track listing "South Side Soul" (Esmond Edwards) – 5:02 "47th and Calumet" (John Wright) – 3:57 "La Salle St After Hours" (Armond Jackson) – 5:21 "63rd and Cottage Grove" (Wright) – 4:06 "35th St Blues" (Wendell Roberts) – 7:00 "Sin Corner" (Jackson) – 5:30 "Amen Corner" (Roberts) – 5:30 |
pjw, and nsp, I have partially answered our question in regard to Alex's record collection; he acquired those records when they came out, but how he chose so many killers is a mystery to me. He owns another relatively unknown Chicago musicians record that I searched for, that's not on CD, but one very expensive record was available, which I declined to purchase.
If we have time, maybe we could search Alex's posts, and discuss what we found. I know he has posted other records I intended to buy but forgot about them.
Every version of "Poinciana" by Ahmad sounds fantastic, but for sentimental reasons, the first one stands the most replays. (a friend of mine's donkey laugh can be heard on that album)
|
For those who have been following my health; I was curled up in the fetal position in a hospital, comfortably waiting to die, when without word, they hauled me and my belongings to another hospital.
I was told the surgeon who was to operate was out of the country, but would talk to me in about a week when she returned. Well, all is well that ends well; so much for that.
|
I will comment on everyone's post today.
|
Pjw, only one; I was attending classes for the company I worked for in Chicago, (the classes were in Chicago) with other students from all over the country. That in itself was exciting. This was in 68, that's important. As I recall, one of the guys I hooked up with was from "Bedford-Stuyvesant", another from Cleveland, and a third from Pittsburgh. We were all jazz fans, and heard Miles, Nina Simone, and Herbie Mann were all going to be on for one night at this auditorium. We trusted Mr. New York to get the tickets, after all, he was the hippest. Was he a sight, in his sandals and Dashiki. (We wore suit and tie to class) The tickets as I remember were quite reasonable (that raised my suspicions). When we got to our seats, I have never been up so high inside of any building, I got airsick. I think Miles was the first on. Now here is where I have to go to great length to put this into perspective; Miles was with tenor saxophonist Wayne Shorter, pianist Chick Corea on electric piano, drummer Tony Williams, and bassist Ron Carter. This is the kind of music they were playing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3Xjm-C1VS8Miles came out on stage in a "Buckskin vest with long fringes"; I looked at Bed-Sty, who knew all things new and hip; he told me this was Miles new music, as well as new look. "I liked the old look and old music better", I responded. The music and Miles new look was a complete shock to me. Nina Simone and Herbie Mann were absolutely fantastic. There was a horrible storm raging outside, and many people who had seats didn't show, so we moved down 10 stories and sat in the good empty seats where we enjoyed Nina Simone who was followed by Herbie Mann. |
"Afro Blue"; here we see Alvin Jones in his favorite shirt; this was recorded in October of 1963; note Trane's progress on Soprano sax.
I saw Trane, McCoy Tyner, Alvin jones, and I'm not positively sure of who the bassist was, but we had a table close to the bandstand; It was in the early Winter of 63.
Every jazz musician in St. Louis was there, without their girlfriends; they didn't want any distractions. Jazz drummer Kenny Rice sat at our table. It was nice to have a professional jazz musician at your table; he politely answered our questions.
"My Favorite Things" was the tune everybody came to hear, and Trane performed his very extended live version; it was as I recall 28 minutes long; much longer than what's on record.
Man, I was feeling good and in a fantastic groove on this one. After 25 minutes, I was ready for it to end, but Trane kept on; he had lost McCoy Tyner and Elvin Jones. Tyner looked at Jones as if to say; "We'll hang together until the boss gets back".
Me and my date looked at Kenny Rice who was in heaven; this is what he came to hear; we were lost. Miles commented on these live extended trips to the outer galaxies that Trane made.
That was the most fantastic performance I have ever witnessed in my life, even if I was momentary lost.
|
Trivia that's troubling me; "I'm not sure of the color of Dinah Washington's "Continental Mark II" but I saw it parked in front of the famous "Pershing Lounge" surrounded by a crowd of people before she came out of the lounge and got into the car. No, it wasn't after a performance but in the middle of the day, maybe she was there on business, too early in the day for cocktails. This car was so striking at that time, that it drew a crowd of people; not everyone knew it was Dinah Washington's car. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKxVVEXtZkAAfter looking at these cars, I believe it was black with gold lettering on the trunk spare. |
nsp, thank you very much for that post, it affirms everything I said about the album "South Side Soul".
You could have taken photographs of those places mentioned on that album, or you could have filmed those places, but nothing captured the feeling and vibrancy of being alive at that time and experiencing the "aura" of those places like John Wright's music.
|
Acman's, "Ole Coltrane"; this was released in 1961; that's very important because Trane evolved at a very rapid pace.
This is arguably his best album. I call several of his albums the best, depending on my mood when I'm listening.
Musicians not normally in the Trane lineup on this album are: Freddie Hubbard on trumpet; and Eric Dolphy on flute. I make this comment because of the significant contributions they make on this album.
|
|
pjw, I came to like Miles new music just as much as you do, but you must realize this was in 68, and I was totally unprepared for this complete change. Compare the music of Miles and Trane to that music, to understand where I'm coming from, and Miles going from a suit to a fringed buckskin vest.
Think of someone turning up a bottle labeled wine that had whisky in it, or a bottle labeled whisky that had wine in it; the unexpected shock of it all made the performance null and void.
|
|
Yes, I did see Blakey; he was my idol since 55 when I first heard him. I saw him in 1970, he had on bib over-alls, and it was at a run down joint; that brought tears to my eyes. But maybe he wasn't doing bad as I had assumed, but just doing a favor for a friend. His performance was just as energetic and forceful as it was when I first heard him in the beginning on record. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di7ko6eST40 |
|
nsp, I do appreciate your prayers for my health, and I'm sure they'll help. I know that just communicating with like minded individuals certainly helps my frame of mind.
In regard to "South Side Soul", I was in my teens, and within walking distance of 63rd and Cottage Grove. This was in the Summer of 56, and Chicago had some of the most spectacular cool nights; you needed a sweater or sport coat in the evenings. My older cousin had a closet full of both.
At this time, you could walk Cottage Grove at night, and feel as safe as in your own yard; the sidewalk was bustling with people; well dressed people I might add.
In the evening, I would choose one of my cousins sharpest sport coats or sweaters, and go strolling on "the boulevard". There was a "Walgreens" with a long lunch counter on 63rd and Cottage, and lots of pretty girls my age would be sitting at the counter enjoying a coke or whatever, but mostly "window shopping". I liked to stroll down the aisle behind them to see how many eyes I caught; that was my evening thrill.
This was only a block away from the fabulous "Pershing Lounge" where star quality people were coming and going; that was the aura in that small part of the "South Side" at that time.
|
"I remember Miles, he was the little dark skin kid who was always trying to play the trumpet". That's what the lady who was the most grieved in the funereal limo blurted out.
This was in a funeral limo with people whose families went back to Miles old neighborhood as documented in chapter one of his autobiography. As well as I can remember dates, I can never remember dates of funerals, but I think Miles was still alive at that time. I'm not sure that's even relevant for this story; the real story took place a long time ago.
Back to the funeral limo, and how she came to blurt out that statement. We had been riding a long distance in silence, when someone struck up a conversation about Miles music to lighten things up. This conversation went on for a short while, and the most grieved person in the limo blurted out. "I remember Miles, he was the little dark skin kid who was always trying to play the trumpet", and the limo was dead silent again.
The conversation was about Miles music, not about Miles himself; she was the only person old enough to have known Miles as a child. The time she was referring to is when she lived in a really big house with her husband and his family, that included a music teacher and a musician. This house was located two blocks from Daut's drugstore, where Miles father had his Dental practice.
Any where there were musicians and or, music teachers; Miles could be found if it was close by; she remembered answering the door and letting Miles and his trumpet in to learn whatever they could learn.
|
This is the best time for jazz ever in my life, that's because of "you tube" and my PC. Almost any musician I can think of, I can pull him up on "you tube". "Donald Byrd" is my chosen musician tonight; him and Pepper Adams have made some beautiful music together, right now, I'm listening to "Out Of This World"; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmW_iRcs3D0"Out of This World" (Harold Arlen, Johnny Mercer) "Curro's" (Donald Byrd) "It's a Beautiful Evening" (Ray Rasch, Dotty Wayne) "Mr. Lucky Theme" (Henry Mancini) (theme of TV-series Mr. Lucky) "Bird House" (Donald Byrd) "Day Dreams" (Duke Ellington, John Latouche, Billy Strayhorn) Pepper Adams – baritone saxophone - ballad feature on Day Dreams Donald Byrd – trumpet Herbie Hancock – piano Laymon Jackson – bass Jimmy Cobb – drums "Curro's" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNk3qtzNM_s&list=RDxNk3qtzNM_s&start_radio=1This group is so together, Herbie Hancock was relatively new in 61 when it came out. |
|
|
Alex, since you're curious about time, I'm trying to put it into perspective.
Miles and his trumpet must have been in 39 when he was 13; which was before I was born in 41; as a matter of fact I'll be 78 in September.
That funeral must have been in 82, which means that Miles was still alive at that time since he died in 91. Of course the lady who let him into the house (the funeral was her husband) to learn whatever he could learn, is no longer with us.
Shopping at record stores is something I've missed for a long time. I shopped at what was without a doubt one of the best record stores in the country, and I had superb relations with the owner, whose tastes ran like yours; he was very vocal about what he liked and didn't like, although his record store had everything; especially "vintage vinyl". Unfortunately, I was always shopping for something new when he had a store full of collectors items; I regret that now.
I hope I've answered some of your questions.
|
Alex, it's good to hear from you. Although we have many of the same artists, you went deeper into each established artist while I was chasing something new. I wasted both time and money.
Now I'm going to get comfortable and check everybody's cuts, and talk to you later.
|
|
|
I especially liked Duke Pearson "After The Rain"; Sweet Honey Bee is on my shopping list.
|
|
|
|
Here is an artist who has continued to evolve; we discussed him from the time he was on the "South Side" till now. That was a long time ago; he's still playing some of the same jams, but they are so different. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cytUz9KkK9M |
One of the definitions of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results. I'll give you an example of how I did this for years.
Since I already had the best jazz artists in my collection, I began to look for new artists and new music; rarely was I successful. This became a habit; a bad habit I might add, plus, at that time you had to buy the record before you listened to it. To make a long story short, I've got a lot of records that need to go to "Goodwill".
Now that I can listen before I buy, and the names of the best jazz artists doesn't change overnight, I intend to have a 99% success rate.
I have no idea why some like this and others like that, but as Rhett Butler said to Scarlett O' Hara, "Frankly My Dear, I Don't Give a Damn". Now I go for the best (as evaluated by yours truly) and leave the rest.
It helps a lot to have other like minded people who have gone through the process of selecting what they consider the best jazz available; that enables me to add "winners" to my collection faster than I can scrape up the cash.
What's music to one person is noise to another person; that's just a fact of life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHnjxPZGEmM
Let us scrutinize that record;
Donald Byrd – trumpet
Julian Priester – trombone
Frank Foster – tenor and soprano saxophone
Jerry Dodgion (#1, 3) – flute
Lew Tabackin (#2, 4) – flute
Duke Pearson – electric piano
Jimmy Ponder – guitar
Roland Wilson – bass guitar
Joe Chambers (#2, 4), Leo Morris (#1, 3) – drums
Nat Bettis – percussion
John H. Robinson Jr. – percussion
Here again we have "Duke Pearson", plus other "A" rated musicians. I only want records that will stand repeated listens.
|
Let me explain why older jazz albums are better than new jazz albums. I heard this cut on the radio and bought the CD. I think this is a real nice cut; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSxcrufI6T0I didn't think the rest of the cuts were as nice. I found that to be a consistent pattern when buying "unknowns". Rok confirmed this. When you compare the musicians on older albums with those on newer albums, you will notice many well known musicians on the older albums, as opposed to musicians you never heard of on newer albums; that makes a big difference. While I'm always looking for something new, I don't have money to burn, therefore I'm much more selective; especially with the knowledge that I'll get more music with older albums than with the newer ones. |
Frogman, Duke Pearson with Flora Purim is really different; never heard that side of Duke before. I think I'll get both of those.
Thanks.
|
Zoot Sims was one mellow dude who blew a mellow horn. We haven't discussed him much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSMMKEjyLcEI saw musicians in LA that were as good as any we've discussed. The reason they're not famous is because they never left the West Coast; they didn't have to in order to make a living. Zoot is one of the best; I like this interview. |
Nsp and pjw, I listened to all of those Jackie Mac cuts and really enjoyed them. Jackie Mac and Miles were good long time friends, they both found their "individual" voices on their chosen instruments; they both can quite readily be identified; Jackie Mac at times sounds like he's crying through his horn when that's the effect he's trying to achieve.
A good jazz musician doesn't just play music, he tells a story through his instrument; that's why the best musicians aren't always the best "jazz" musicians.
Thanks for the cuts.
|
Glad to here from you too Schubert; we have some of the same problems, but we'll keep them a secret, no need to let everybody know everything.
|
|
|
I was listening to a female vocalist that sounded vaguely familiar, but I couldn't quite place her; it was Sheila Jordan. The reason I couldn't place her is because I saw her on TV recently. Now that doesn't sound like a good reason, but when I saw and heard her on TV, she was 90, and when she recorded the record I have she was 34; a much younger version of today's Sheila Jordan; she was one jazzy lady. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SJV_oGVvHQThese are the track listings on "A Portrait of Sheila"; all of them boss. "Falling in Love with Love" (Richard Rodgers, Lorenz Hart) – 2:31 "If You Could See Me Now" (Tadd Dameron, Carl Sigman) – 4:32 "Am I Blue" (Grant Clarke, Harry Akst) – 4:12 "Dat Dere" (Bobby Timmons) – 2:43 "When the World Was Young" (M. Philippe-Gérard, Johnny Mercer) – 4:43 "Let's Face the Music and Dance" (Irving Berlin) – 1:14 "Laugh, Clown, Laugh" (Sam M. Lewis, Joe Young, Ted Fiorito) – 3:11 "Who Can I Turn To?" (Wilder, Engvick) – 3:21 "Baltimore Oriole" (Hoagy Carmichael, Paul Francis Webster) – 2:34 "I'm a Fool to Want You" (Jack Wolf, Joel Herron, Frank Sinatra) – 4:55 "Hum Drum Blues" (Oscar Brown Jr.) – 2:15 "Willow Weep for Me" (Ann Ronell) – 3:28 |
My focus this morning is on "Yusef Lateef"; he played: Tenor saxophone, flute, oboe, bassoon, bamboo flute, shehnai, shofar, arghul, koto, piano, vocals. As you can see, he played a variety of instruments; born in 1920 and died 2013, he lived a long and very productive life; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAxdTSc_fts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ycYPKijiMo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ycYPKijiMo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ycYPKijiMo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZSIbGgmD-wThese are his cuts that have withstood repeated listens over the years by me. While the cuts I've chosen are exotic, he's all over the map; including classic jazz on tenor sax. Please comment on whether or not you like Yusef Lateef. |
|
I saw Pat Metheney live on a Riverboat, he was on fire. I like the way he re-invents himself; this was a classic example of that.
|
Bar Kokhba Sextet brings together six core members of the Masada family under the leadership of John Zorn. The music act is an improvisational group from New York's best downtown artists, including Cyro Baptista on percussion, Marc Ribot on guitar, Greg Cohen on bass, Joey Baron on drums and Mark Feldman / Erik Friedlander on strings. According to Tzadik, John Zorn's music label, the band's music is "Sephardic exotica for young moderns".
The Bar Kokhba album recorded between 1994 & 1996 together with the Masada musical project was the album that started John Zorn's 2nd evolution into Masada Book Two (II) or Book of Angels during the Winter of 2005 at Tonic (New York City) after performing a ravishing set of sessions of filmworks at the Anthology Film Archives in the same city during the Winter of 2004.
|
Pjw, you have very good taste; "Sister Mamie" is one of my all time favorites by Yusef Lateef.
|
John Coltrane; "Blue Trane" can be placed with the other greatest "classic" jazz albums. When you examine the cast, you can see why.
John Coltrane – tenor saxophone
Lee Morgan – trumpet
Curtis Fuller – trombone
Kenny Drew – piano
Paul Chambers – bass
Philly Joe Jones – drums
|
Rok, did you know that Quinichette is pronounced (“Quinishay”)?
|
It was on a real nice spring day and these heavy weight "aficionados" were having a discussion about jazz, and I wanted to get in on it. One of them was a famous St. Louis disc jockey by the name of Leo Chears. I was in my late teens at that time, and wanted to impress them with my knowledge of jazz. I began by talking about "Paul Quinichette" ; I went on and on, pronouncing his name each time like it's spelled. While I was talking, I noticed Leo had a smirk on his face. "You mean Paul Quinishay, don't you", and from that time on I never forget the correct pronunciation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKr1ndJ_yAg&list=OLAK5uy_mhCameuEheuVBFTSnMnRV81G47SxCHk4Y |
Acman, I spent a lot of time listening to John Zorn's music and considered it infinitely variable while revolving around music that would have been popular at the time of Christ in the Middle East; the music never got boring.
The highest honor that I can give any music is to say that I will buy it, and that's what I intend to do about John Zorn's music.
Although it's hard for me to classify this music as "jazz", that wont make me any difference, but it might to some. The bottom line is the fact that I think it's good music that will stand repeated listens.
|
Pjw, very good selection; I've been listening to it, and while it consists of some fantastic music, I would call it "jazz fusion".
Presently, I'm deep into defining music; the difference between jazz, fusion, and modern music. There is no "dictionary definition of jazz", but "jazz musicians" know the definition internally within themselves; the same can be said for fans; it's comparable to the transmission and reception of radio and television.
While I could listen to the music you submitted all night, it's not jazz. The fact that jazz has so many unique requirements, eliminates a lot of music; but that doesn't mean the other music is not as good, it's just not jazz in the strictest sense.
BTW, we don't bar any kind of music on this thread, but I guess you knew that.
In the 50's and 60's, the best jazz was determined by "The word on the street", not some writer or book. Those two decades were before the decline of our major cities, and whatever the consensus was on the street in those cities, was it; like "Who was the best musician on which instrument"? or whatever.
While I can't, nor will I try to define jazz in it's strictest sense; I know it when I hear it; however, it seems that the musicians that Alex locked in on made real jazz.
|
|
One thing is for certain, if you want to listen to live music, it won't be my favorites, which is another reason to listen to new artists.
|
As I explained before, my collection is not nearly as good as it should be; that's because I was always seeking whatever was the latest, instead of just looking for the best.
|
