"and she was friend, mentor, and teacher to Thelonious Monk, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Tadd Dameron, Bud Powell, and Dizzy Gillespie." All the musicians I idolized, she taught; can you imagine that.
In 1945, she composed the bebop hit "In the Land of Oo-Bla-Dee" for Gillespie. "During this period Monk and the kids would come to my apartment every morning around four or pick me up at the Café after I'd finished my last show, and we'd play and swap ideas until noon or later", Williams recalled in Melody Maker.
I have never read where Monk chased after anybody, but there he is with the kids every morning. She was super heavy; I can't believe how modern her music is.
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Mary Lou Williams; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Lou_WilliamsRok, I would like for you to focus on her early years; she taught herself to play piano, I don't know where we read this, but her mother would not allow professional lessons. There is a special reason that I mention this. We did not discover her until a couple of years ago, that was 2016. I didn't bother with her music because she predated "Bird"; therefore she could not be hip. I most certainly was not into the musicians of her generation. All the assumptions I made about Mary Lou Williams were wrong; no matter how late a mistake is corrected, it's better late than never. Now, I just can't get enough of her music; although I put her music down for awhile, I've picked it back up. Almost every artist I can think of is a little like some other artist, or uses a similar riff or something, but she's so unique as not to be like anyone, and the fact that her music is still "cool", is really amazing. I think the fact that her mother forbade anyone else to teach her music, established this individuality. Rok, why don't you peruse your collection, and post some favorites, and then I'll do likewise; besides, the jazz queen of Croatia wants to hear some of your music. |
Favorite Williams if it's convenient. |
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Rok, Trane is so soothing that I have been listening for some time now, and it's for sure that I will get that set.
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We discovered a gold mine of music, when we discovered Mary Lou Williams. Her music is not the same stuff warmed over, it's something brand new. We both know how old the blues is, but you ain't heard the blues until you hear hers; it causes me to spiral into the inner recesses of my mind, and let the lives of the people who created the blues flash before me.
She is the most individualistic musician I've heard since Mingus. That was in 59 when I first heard Mingus; you have to put things into their proper perspective; nobody had heard anything like Mingus, and we didn't know what to make of him, but I had to keep playing Mingus over, and over.
Now, every time I hear the same tune by Mary Lou, I hear something new; that's when you know you're listening to a gifted artist.
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All the music on that CD was written by "Mary Lou Williams", and that's my most significant point in regard to her music; she is the complete package, it also remains contemporary. This music is so refreshing; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yfqBhxqwZA |
Rok, I'll buy all the medallions you wore with the jackets. It's raining, dark and dreary where I am; a good day for reminiscing; without a doubt, the 70's was the best decade for me; nobody seemed to be uptight about anything, people were making a decent living. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvUQcnfwUUM |
Rok, I met Maynard Ferguson once; he was nailed and just goofing around at one of his friend's joint.
It was fun to see a big time musician just having a good time; his friend even got him to blow a few high notes just for laughs.
Rok, that was a simpler time; it's why both of us have been in the same frame of mind. I have both of those tunes; "Feeling Good" and "Rise" on my play list.
These are the best of times for the rich, and the worst of times for the working poor.
The rich have always had it good, but they had to endure poor people being able to enjoy life to some extent as well; now there are few smiles on very few faces; this pleases them, when there are no longer any smiles on any faces, they will be content.
Those two maynard ferguson albums are a must have for me.
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This number will conclude my trip down memory lane of hot fun in the summertime on the dance floor in the 70's. Anyone who can remember the name of the steps that were done to this tune, wins the grand nostalgia prize. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBG3qpYj5DU |
Rok, at the Lincoln Center, they delight in trying to fit square pegs in round holes.
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Rok, without naming the steps, you win the prize. |
You can come on, but please leave them Kenny G. LP's where they belong. |
I don't like controversy because it messes with the "groove". I know there are some people who don't know what that is (a groove), because every time things are flowing, and we got kind of a "groove" going on, they blow it.
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It is not written that we all like the same music all the time. There are a multiplicity of reasons why we like some music, and not other music; it might even have something to do with DNA, I've never studied it.
"I noticed your (meaning Rok) jazz queen of Croatia didn't comment on Mary Lou, but that wasn't surprising; taking all things into consideration she couldn't be expected to appreciate the blues."
Somehow, that got totally misinterpreted to mean this;
"Besides, I do not have to like all the music that you post, do I? Some of the postings are more and some are less my cup of tea. Only maybe if Alex posts a telephone book claiming that it is good jazz, I will probably like it or will catch myself thinkin’ do I like it, but that’s another thing. Don’t say this to Alex. However, I do appreciate all the contributors here. Do I really have to say it out loud to make it real?"
Please believe me, if I have ever uttered anything that mildly indicates anyone should like the music I like, please delete it as of this moment.
We all are "unique", and our tastes in music indicate that fact. On this thread, we post music that we like, in hopes that someone else will share our appreciation for that same music; however, "It ain't necessarily so".
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Mary Lou Williams music is magic to me, and I don't quite no why. Since I can't explain it, not even to myself, I just chalk it up to another one of the mysteries in my life.
How many times have I heard "The Man I Love"? More times and versions than I can count have I heard this tune. Why is Mary Lou's version the most special for me? I don't know.
I'm just happy that I discovered music by an artist that I had written off as not being "modern", because she was not of the generation of Bird, Miles, Monk, and etc.
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Sons of Kemet- "My Queen Is Harriet Tubman" is boss; I can't quite find a camp or category to put it in, and that's good, it means it's original.
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Kamasi Washington's music was like a breath of fresh mountain air; no pollution, just pure clean music.
I haven't heard music that I could get lost in, in a long time; this music takes me to places that I have never been but always wanted to go.
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I don't expect Mary Lou Williams music to affect everyone else, the same as it affects me.
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Rok, I've listened to all of Mary Lou's music that you have posted, and I found it to resonate with me in a fashion I don't quite understand; it's like a childhood memory that I can't quite recall, but it makes me feel good to try and think about it.
Even her versions of the most common tunes, like "My Blue Heaven", are so uniquely different, that they become brand new.
Mary Lou Williams has added much to my musical enjoyment.
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There never has been, nor will there ever be, anyone to compare to "Nina Simone"; she is in a category of "One". In the beginning, I heard her artistic merit, and her virtuoso on piano; in the end, she conquered with raw power; her voice grabbed, and held you in it's vice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow6fQbpUli4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PMriloy62oA song has a life of it's own, the same as any human being; that is, if you can hear into the song and really know what it's about; this song is about; "It ain't over until I say it's over, cause I put a spell on you" This is three different versions of the same song, and I can hear the essence of the song on all three different versions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1AE_bCoPSIIn that second version by Nina, the guy on guitar nails the spirit of the song. Since it's "Screaming Jay Hawkins" song, he can do whatever he wants to. |
"Dr John memorably described James Booker as "the best black, gay, one-eyed junkie piano genius New Orleans has ever produced."
Why did so many jazz genius's have to be junkies; it didn't help them to play better, no junkie would ever tell you that lie, but it's common knowledge according to the public.
Even if they were not musicians, they would have still been junkies, but that's another conversation.
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I'm going to compare Nina Simone to the most beautiful and best jazz diva's of our time, and I want you to give your opinion. I have a point to make, but not until after your evaluation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5Y11hwjMNs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPovfFpX56kI'm not going to make any comparison, I'll leave that to you. I just posted two versions of feeling good, for you to compare. Try to pick two versions of the same song; one by Nina, and the other by your favorite diva. I have a surprise valid point to be made after you have made comparisons and evaluations. Nina was going downhill toward the end, so picking something at a bad time is a clear foul and wont count. Lets give ourselves plenty of time for this; tomorrow afternoon sounds like a good time to conclude. |
Rok, you have provided enough for me to state my point.
Irvin Mayfield is the pianist for Dee Dee's version of that song.
Nina Simon is her own pianist.
Ella Fitzgerald's pianist was John Lewis, one of the very best. Nina Simone's pianist was
"Nina Simone". All the other "Diva's" had other pianists, while Nina Simone was her own pianist.
My point is, Eunice Waymon had no intention of becoming a singer; she was playing the piano at a lounge to earn money for piano lessons when they told her to sing.
Simone's music teacher helped establish a special fund to pay for her education.Subsequently, a local fund was set up to assist her continued education. With the help of this scholarship money she was able to attend Allen High School for Girls in Asheville, North Carolina.
After her graduation, Simone spent the summer of 1950 at the Juilliard School, as a student of Carl Friedberg, preparing for an audition at the Curtis Institute of Music in Philadelphia. Her application, however, was denied. As her family had relocated to Philadelphia in the expectation of her entry to Curtis, the blow to her aspirations was particularly heavy, and she suspected that her application had been denied because of racial prejudice. Discouraged, she took private piano lessons with Vladimir Sokoloff, a professor at Curtis, but never re-applied to the institution. She took a job as a photographer's assistant, but also found work as an accompanist at Arlene Smith's vocal studio and taught piano from her home in Philadelphia.
(Thank God her application was denied)
To fund her private lessons, Simone performed at the Midtown Bar & Grill on Pacific Avenue in Atlantic City, whose owner insisted that she sing as well as play the piano, which increased her income to $90 a week. In 1954, she adopted the stage name "Nina Simone". "Nina", derived from niña, was a nickname given to her by a boyfriend named Chico, and "Simone" was taken from the French actress Simone Signoret, whom she had seen in the 1952 movie Casque d'Or. Knowing her mother would not approve of playing the "Devil's Music", she used her new stage name to remain undetected. Simone's mixture of jazz, blues, and classical music in her performances at the bar earned her a small but loyal fan base.
All the other diva's had outside pianist, while Nina Simone was her own pianist, and according to my ears, she was one fantastic pianist; that's because before she sang that first song, all she ever did was "play piano"; all she ever wanted to be was a "Classical pianist".
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Now if you're saying that I said something that I said before, I can dig that.
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"She makes Miles, Trane, Monk etc... seem like fly by night flashes in the pan."
I've been listening to jazz for my entire life, and I will testify, "You got that right!"
I'm not sure I have that one; if not, it will be corrected.
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Ella and Nina on "Blue Skys", I claim foul, and I'll leave it at that.
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Rok, I don't think there is anything to elaborate; the post said it all, piano was her life, she didn't just play piano.
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We are all gaining so very much from this thread; that's because without new music, this hobby doesn't show me much.
We gain knowledge and new music from everyone who posts on this thread.
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Schubert, I'm glad that you share my love of Carmen. I have a number of pristine LP's by her that I enjoy immensely; that was when she was young and very beautiful, but as she aged, she gained weight and became less beautiful; what was she to do,drive a cab? (but I'm not as handsome as I once was) Never the less, we can still celebrate a young and beautiful Carmen McRae; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_R9AGDvXe4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYRrcCjLiGA |
Now I understand. Comparing Nina to other Diva's is so subjective; but if you insist, I will do my best?
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I get great satisfaction from sharing music that I love and appreciate with others who can appreciate it as much as I do.
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Dee Dee wins; she has gospel plus "Nawlins" in her music, no way you can go wrong with that; sounded like she had a personal acquaintance with the house. (authenticity). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT2AdOLemogDee Dee is incredible. |
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Acman, thank you for those wonderful Carmen McRae posts. I hope they were to Schubert's satisfaction, I know I enjoyed each one of them; keep the fantastic posts coming.
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Frogman, your credibility is "0" in a conversation of this nature.
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Rok, I checked on that "Curtis School of Music", and found that it's such a "hoity toity" place, that no one could "credibly" claim discrimination. That ends that for me.
I discovered a March 84 issue of "Stereo Review": check Rodrigues; picture this guy coming home with a box under his arm that says: "Digital Laser Beam Player", and his wife is at the door to greet him;
"...Now, don't tell me, Maurice, let me guess. With that quad thing, we sat in the middle of the room with speakers all over the place. Now, with this laser-beam gadget, we put on lead-lined aprons and listen to it while we hide behind the sofa...."
I had that "quad thing", and I thought it was hot stuff. These old magazines are fun; antiquated, but fun.
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Schubert, I have some of Carmen’s earliest LP’s, and regardless how young her voice was, it needed some polish; she had to learn a thing or two before she became the Carmen I adore.
"If memory serves me right(which it often does not)".
Carmen definitely had a learning curve, she wasn’t instant.
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When she applied for that school, it was in the 50's when discrimination was the law of the land in The United States of America; where were you?
I said it was such a "hoity toity" place that they could have found a dozen other reasons not to approve of her beside her color; that's what I meant in regard to a credible allegation of race discrimination.
In 2003, just days before her death, the Curtis Institute of Music bestowed on her an honorary degree.
Was that an apology?
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The credibility of what you hear in Nina Simone's piano playing is "0".
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Frogman, Eunice Kathleen Waymon was a "Classical Pianist". Do they have book stores, or one of those places where you check books out near you? Her application read "Eunice Kathleen Waymon"; not Nina Simone, when she applied to that school.
Go to a book store, or one of those places near you that loan books, and read about Eunice Waymon.
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