Both were excellent versions of "Nica's Dream"; the West Coast version kind of flowed and oozed, while the East Coast was "hard riding"; imagine an outlaw making his get away from the posse across the badlands, you could hear Horace Silver riding hard on those keys, while Carl Perkins was laid back and cool.
The East Coast was hot and explosive, full of emotion; Junior Cook, on tenor, and Blue Mitchell on trumpet were lightening quick, and jazzy to the extreme; which is what East Coast is all about, I started sweating just listening to it.
If you have a temperature, and want to cool off, you need West Coast, but if you want to get hot and excited, it's East Coast.
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In regard to Acmans language statement, it's more likely that musicians who speak the same language find one another; the "hard bop" improvisational jazz language is both fast and complex; musicians can not get acquainted on the bandstand, they must speak the same language. In the case of "Miles Davis", he chose musicians whose music would compliment his own; I didn't see any evidence of Miles rubbing off on the musicians who played with him. In the case of Max Roach and Clifford Brown, they were like twins, who could read each others minds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt_fmhtePoc |
Frogman, because you're a professional musician, you sometime don't see the forest for the trees; you get too hung up in the "nuts and bolts".
The "feel" of those two versions of "Nica's Dream" was different; one "felt" West Coast, and the other "felt" East Coast.
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"Modern jazz" is the musical expression of complex emotion, and some emotions are even two complex for words, that why we have music without words, which a lot of lame people can not dig; that's the way it is. "Round Midnight" is best without words, that's the way it was meant to be, and that's why Thelonious Monk plays it different, every time he plays it. As a matter of fact, lame people refer to jazz as "That music without words." This is one of the most beautiful versions of "Round Midnight" ever; it comes on like a cool Summer breeze, on a hot July night "Round Midnight", and instead of a midnight marauder on this night in the city, you could possibly run into the girl of your dreams, or in the case of Mary-jo, the guy of her dreams. This music is full of romance; some get it and some don't; that's always the way it is with jazz. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1Xozvcf0FA |
mary_jo, I sincerely adored everything about your post, except; that scratchy recording of Dark Eyes by Yoska Gabor and his Gypsy Orchestra.
While I liked the music, the audiophile in me detests scratchy records.
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"As you define "real", meaning emotionally from the heart, West Coast is less real, but that doesn't mean it's less jazzy."
You read too fast Frogman; the "you" in that sentence was referring to Rok, not me; he identifies some things different from me; I did not make that distinction.
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Frogman, I go by what I hear, not what musicians say; Bill Evans played a lot with Miles, I can't hear where Bill Evans began to sound like Miles.
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I have been very close to a few jazz persons. I refer to them as "persons" as opposed to musicians, because that’s a different relationship. While I idolized what they did on the bandstand, they were just friends of mine off the bandstand. I never understood how they did what they did, and they never discussed it.
From my observations, it took a lifetime for them to do what they did, and I don’t think they could explain it; it’s for sure I wouldn’t understand if they did; I understand very little about "improvisational jazz", but I like it.
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This was recorded at the Montreaux Jazz Festival in Switzerland in June 1969. Both the Eddie Harris Quartet, and the Les McCann Trio performed with great success at the Festival. Later in the week, Eddie and Les felt like playing together. Benny Bailey, the great American trumpet player, who was living in Europe, was also there; he was asked by Eddie and Les to join them; the rest is history. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCDMQqDUtv4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8YOLY4TatsLes McCann and Eddie Harris spoke the same language; both those tunes were hits on the jukeboxes and the radio, something rare for jazz tunes. 1969 was also the most fantastic Summer of my life; when I went to lawn parties, I always brought plenty of Cold Duck Wine, and I inquired when I arrived, "What time is it?" always, the hearty response was "Its Cold Duck Time!". Those were the days my friend, why did they have to end? |
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This is a cool tune by "Eddie Harris", he was a most creative person. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wLSlaP8MOQThis was recorded in 69, that was a far out year; it was the one some people lost track of, but you would have had to have been there and into things that caused one to lose track of time. It's a funny thing, but I'm not in this present time, it's just going on without me. |
"You can't teach an old dog new tricks"; I bet if an old dog really wanted to learn new tricks, he could, but most old dogs like me, just find new tricks unnecessary; especially when compared to all the old tricks. That was my introduction to the music I've been enjoying today; the music of "Sonny Stitt"; when Sonny Stitt met Charley Parker, Parker is alleged to have remarked, "Well, I'll be damned, you sound just like me", to which Stitt responded, "Well, I can't help the way I sound. It's the only way I know how to play." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgaTwCNizRc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC4P4B2kl4QEnjoy. |
Rok, I'm a lot like the weather, you never know what to expect; lately it's been a stroll down long past memory lane, who knows what tomorrow will bring?
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Pryso, you just added another must have album to my growing list; Pepper Adams plays Charles Mingus contains some of the best music I've heard this year, and it's old music that he reinvented.
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I thought I would share my memory of a train trip to Detroit, and some impressions of a great American city.
My father drove me to the station, and carried my bags to the train where he knew the conductor from back in their "hay days". This was the last train with a dining car to Detroit; we ate good food and drank good whiskey all the way there.
It was late April, little yellow flowers sprinkled wide expanses of green grass in the parks of St. Louis, while the ground began to turn white the closer we got to Detroit, and snow white upon our arrival to "Motown"
The year was 65, and my fiancee picked me up in a new Electra 225, (Duece and a Quarter). She was accompanied by a couple who were friends of hers. The four of us went to the 20 Grand, which was the fanciest club I had ever been to. It had valet parking plus coat and hat check girls. A young 22 year old Aretha Franklin was the feature attraction, if you think she sang as she aged, you should have heard her live then; unforgettable.
My fiancee lived in Pontiac Michigan, where Pontiac Motors was. We visited some of her friends there who lived in lovely homes with "play rooms" complete with well stocked bar.
Detroit and surrounding area was a place where working people were the most affluent in the country. (Automobile manufacturers paid the highest wages) They were the best dressed, drove more new cars than anywhere else, including LA; although you would have thought they had a two for one sale on Mercedes in LA.
One of the top "Motown" acts was appearing in Flint, so we decided to pack a stack of 45’s for entertainment and drive to Flint. (There was a 45 RPM record player in the huge glove compartment, it let out a pleasant echo sounding "ping" when you hit a bump, but on a stretch of flat highway, sounded as good as any high end TT)
I enjoyed the music so much on the trip to Flint and back, that I honestly don’t remember what Motown act we saw; good company, riding in a "glide mobile", with boss music, played on a high end 45 TT, made traveling to wherever you were going such a pleasant experience, that as soon as we got out of the car, I wanted to get back in; that lets you know how good auto audio could be in 65.
That’s when America was great.
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Acman, thank you for "Detroit"; it's a city where so many great jazz musicians came from, Gerald Wilson graduated from Cass Technical High School (one of his classmates was saxophonist Wardell Gray).
His composition was elegant and beautiful, like so many of the people in Detroit when I visited the city.
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The vast majority of African Americans were descendants of slaves who were not permitted to even learn how to read and write; the Japanese, the Chinese, the Jews, and most of the Europeans came to this country with education, and Entrepreneurial Skills; while African Americans only knew how to earn a living by the sweat of their brows. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyBZnLuNJ7kWhen this country pulled the plug for jobs in this country, African Americans were stranded wherever they were, and if Detroit was that place, that's the way it was. Thank God for America, it throws people in a hole in the ground, (over a period of 100 years), and tells them to pull them selves up by their boot straps. |
Rok, what does Venezuela have to do with jobs in Detroit? |
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Inna, you know we like the same music, even though it's not jazz. Her singing and music touched me; while I didn't understand a word she sang, her soulful expression communicated everything.
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pjw, I can not find my copy of "Blues Walk", one of my all time favorite tunes; that Herman Foster is one bad dude on piano, I don't think we've discussed him.
Lou Donaldson's music ranks up there with the very best in my book.
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pjw, I liked your story about Lou Donaldson, he was my first favorite jazz artist, and I have been following him every since; he also likes to play with some of my other favorite artists; like Baby Face Willette and Grant Green. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KGfRMmyPMAThis was my first exposure to his music. |
pjw, I can not find my copy of "Blues Walk", one of my all time favorite tunes; that Herman Foster is one bad dude on piano, I don't think we've discussed him.
Lou Donaldson's music ranks up there with the very best in my book.
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Well folks, as far as my cancer is concerned, I just saw the doctor yesterday, I didn't ask any questions, and he didn't give a lot of answers; but I'm feeling better every day.
Please, no sympathy, this is just an update.
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Who made you the decider in Chief of what is and what is not good jazz? 1969 was a very good year for me and Eddie Harris; I partied from dusk till dawn on his music; I got used to that while you were in Europe, and I always brought "Cold Duck" wine to the party. Cold Duck is the name of a sparkling wine made in the United States. The wine was invented by Harold Borgman, the owner of Pontchartrain Wine Cellars in Detroit, in 1937. The Cold Duck was made at the Ponchartrain Wine Cellars by simultaneously pouring Champagne and sparkling burgundy into a hollow stem wine glass. The recipe was based on a German legend involving Prince Clemens Wenceslaus of Saxony ordering the mixing of all the dregs of unfinished wine bottles with Champagne. The wine produced was given the name Kaltes Ende ("cold end" in German), until it was altered to the similar-sounding term Kalte Ente meaning "cold duck".[1] The exact recipe now varies, but the original combined one part of Mosel wine, one part Rhine wine with one part of Champagne, seasoned with lemons and balm mint. Some of my other favorites by Eddie Harris; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtahaV6DU4g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IyXo9jL7Vc&list=PLCX_SlmERpRMvUecsrv6ZqxFRarWJX1NfHe blew a beautiful horn. |
Pryso, we have so many gems in our collections that we forget to play some of them until reminded. That one sounds better with age.
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Frogman, in 59, the circle I traveled in barely considered KOB, an also ran.
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"Somethin Else" was definitely boss in 59, because it was popular before KOB had been released; it came out in 58, while KOB came out in 59; that's why KOB wasn't even considered until later.
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Frogman, the music had a Cannonball "feel" to it, not a Miles Davis feel; that's because Cannonball was the leader on that set, not Miles. While he had some dynamite solos, as a sideman, he was not the leader on that album. If he had been, it would have been an entirely different album.
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The "hippest" is never the most popular, which is why KOB is the most popular; it's just not as "jazzy" AKA hip as "Somethin Else". Only the true connoisseurs of jazz can make such distinctions. Miles did what sidemen do on records, he played great solos, but it was Cannonballs music. Compare "Love For Sale" on SE, and the same tune on Miles record. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tSYXpq2kW0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i6wNgg5kq4Miles's sounds like Miles, not Cannonball; it's much different, even when he's playing the solos on both tunes; that was Cannonball's music on Cannonball's album. |
The point was not who's playing the tune but the feel of the music, which was Cannonball's.
Blame "you tube" for posting that KOB cover, that was not my point; my point was Miles version of "Love For Sale" no matter what album, was so different from Cannonball's version.
It's the leader who determines the "feel" of the album and music, which is why one "Love For Sale" sounds so different from the other, even when the same person (Miles Dewey Davis) is playing both versions.
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Just as I detest vocalists who scat inappropriately in order to demonstrate their virtuosity, when the story line of the song absolutely does not call for it; I'm not in love with artists who interject their "stylistics" in a fashion beyond the story line of the song.
"Love For Sale" is a hauntingly beautiful song about a streetwalker who has love for sale, but she would rather have true love, which is not for sale.
Miles love for sale captures Miles, while Cannonball's version captures the haunting beauty of the song.
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Pryso, that CD (Pat Metheney) sounds as good as my best vinyl LP's.
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Frogman,
Somethin' Else is a jazz album by saxophonist Julian "Cannonball" Adderley, released on Blue Note Records in 1958. Also on the session is trumpeter Miles Davis in one of his handful of recording dates for Blue Note. |
Pryso, since you can't believe it was well received, I have to question your taste in jazz, it's apparent you were not there; maybe that was before you discovered jazz. SE was the very hottest album after it's release.
"Somethin Else";
Professional ratings
Review scores
Source Rating
Allmusic 5/5 stars
The Penguin Guide to Jazz 4/4 stars[3]
Somethin' Else is a jazz album by saxophonist Julian "Cannonball" Adderley, released on Blue Note Records in 1958. Also on the session is trumpeter Miles Davis in one of his handful of recording dates for Blue Note. Adderley was a member of Davis' group at the time this album was recorded. The Penguin Guide to Jazz selected this album as part of its suggested "Core Collection.
When an album gets that high of a rating by professionals, without a doubt, maybe you should listen to it again.
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Although Miles strays farther than the true intent of "Love For Sale" than Cannonball (no matter what album), he doesn't stray too far. The reason I mention that is because one of my pet peeves is when an artist gives the title of a standard, and you can't even recognize it.
If they wanted to play some outlandish unrecognizable tune, why didn't they just give it a new name.
Some of my favorite albums have not even been mentioned on this forum, and I don't mention them because they aren't even on "you tube".
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Rok, which circus are you referring to, be more specific. Are you referring to what happens when people are left without jobs, "means to earn a living"; then the same conditions exist in Chicago, St'. Louis, LA, and all of the other major cities.
Tell me what you are talking about, and I will comment on it.
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Alex, you made some very good points; yesterdays good jazz is forgotten, is one of them.
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Do the "Afro Peruvian" rhythms sound any different from the "Afro Brazilian" rhythms, or the "Afro-Cuban" rhythms, or the "Haitian Voodoo" rhythms?
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Here are the top 25 jazz albums of all time: .. The Best of the Hot 5 & Hot 7 Recordings - Louis Armstrong. ... Blue Train - John Coltrane. ... Getz/Gilberto - Stan Getz & Joao Gilberto. ... Mingus Ah Um - Charles Mingus. ... Concert By the Sea - Errol Garner. ... Bitches Brew - Miles Davis. .. Kind Of Blue - Miles Davis A Love Supreme - John Coltrane Time Out - Dave Brubeck Ellington At Newport - Duke Ellington Jazz At Massey Hall - The Quintet The Best of the Hot 5 & Hot 7 Recordings - Louis Armstrong Blue Train - John Coltrane Getz/Gilberto - Stan Getz & Joao Gilberto Mingus Ah Um - Charles Mingus Concert By the Sea - Errol Garner Bitches Brew - Miles Davis Saxophone Colossus - Sonny Rollins Moanin’ - Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers Clifford Brown and Max Roach At Carnegie Hall - Thelonious Monk with John Coltrane Soul Station - Hank Mobley Somethin’ Else - Cannonball Adderley Speak No Evil, Wayne Shorter Birth of the Cool - Miles Davis Maiden Voyage, Herbie Hancock A Boy Named Charlie Brown - Vince Guaraldi Trio Out to Lunch - Eric Dolphy The Blues and The Abtract Truth - Oliver Nelson Go - Dexter Gordon With Clifford Brown - Sarah Vaughan The details of these albums can be found here; https://www.thejazzresource.com/top_25_jazz_albums_page_2.html |
