Jazz for aficionados
When done with O's pix, here's a link to The Library of Congress collection of Gottlieb photos. Hover your cursor over one and a caption will appear. https://www.flickr.com/photos/library_of_congress/sets/72157624588645784/ |
@pryso I am sometimes too much the literalist. Missed the humor in your Bruce Katz West Coast speculation. On the other hand, given the feel of that track I posted last evening (What Might Have Been) I can see why you would have guessed that coast. It does have a sort of breezy, laid back feel to it. Overall and even with the inclusion of "Larry the Spinning Poodle" (not the most listener friendly track on the album), Transformation is very good, I think. Quite varied with some real depth. Not superficial, glossy pop jazz. The All Music Guide says Katz earned a Masters in Jazz from the New England Conservatory and is an associate professor at the Berklee College of Music. He’s earned and learned his chops if you read his credits. |
O - that's too funny. I spent a good little bit of time looking at that exact photo. Didn't even need to look it up to check what you meant. YUP his girlfriend is looking none too pleased whilst he is looking "smitten"! Great call. Have to say, Doris Day is quite the looker too. Only knew her from those movies with (Rock Hudson?). Never that taken with her in those. |
PS... O - In case you haven’t discovered this yet, if you click on a photo to make it larger, then hover your cursor over an individual, a little box will appear showing their name. Not in every case but often…esp. in group photos. One other thing worth commenting on: Everyone wearing jacket and tie...the guys, anyway. Night out and all that, I suppose. Still, whether or not you think manner of dress is symptomatic, you don’t have to convince me about the general coarsening over the last several (5?) decades leading to our present time. No use bemoaning the fact. Gotta play the hand that’s dealt ya’...Still, would love to have a time machine to go back and visit what were really the coming of age years for my parents. |
Hello pryso - I have not made it through Gottlieb’s LOC collection either! In fact, only part way into page 2 after quite a bit of time invested. It is fun though. Yes...saw the record shop photo with Jack Crystal. Another noteworthy photo is on p.2, 13th row down, left hand side. A very young Miles Davis is looking up at Howard McGhee who is playing trumpet. Someone named Brick Fleagle is on piano. Thanks to the LOC archivist for identifications. I’m not that much younger than yourself. Remember when jackets were required at dinner in the student dining hall. O - don’t know anything about Nica Rothschild. Seems like some interesting reading to catch up on. Looks like another photo where eyes are telling a story... https://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/apr/22/hannah-rothschild-nica-jazz-thelonious-monk-interview |
O - Going back a few days to your Garbarek/Coltrane soprano sax comments, here's yet another voice. Track 2 from the album of the same name. Not one of Corea's more popular recordings, apparently (out of print, I believe). Have been spending more and more time with it since stumbling upon it. The artwork might be off putting and convey the wrong impression about the music. It does not predict the excellence of compositions or performances. Very good sonics too. Hope others enjoy it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5FNzMICmsQ&ab_channel=ChickCoreaQuartet-Topic |
dl - Here’s a link to Spotify for the album (3 Guitars) that has JA’s Timeless. It’s the last track. https://open.spotify.com/album/6G0dy3oudvTAHgdmX4XNSl Hopefully Spotify’s SQ is adequate. (it's possible you will have to be logged in to Spotify for the link to work...not certain). |
dl - hahaha...I’ll wager how interesting you find the story behind my "handle" will be proportional to how UNinteresting your own life is. ;-) Suffice it to say, it does have personal significance on a number of levels. Add to that, it’s something I can remember reliably and spell correctly! (You are very welcome, by the way) Before I got the Aries Mini, I spent a TON of time tethered to a DAC via USB cable from my MacBook listening to music on Spotify. Their Browse/Discover recommendation function introduced me to a lot of new, off-the-beaten-path, music. I still use it from time to time, then see if I can find the album on Tidal for more "serious" listening. I wish Spotify would up their game SQ-wise. Tidal sounds better but Spotify has a big edge on size of the library; plus it is not so in-your-face with content I don’t care about. |
Again, you are welcome, dl. Hope you like Spotify. I take it you haven’t been a regular user. Well worth the $10 per month if only to avoid the commercials (the bain of the "free" version, as I recall). Plus with a subscription, Spotify Premium SQ does get noticeably better, if not yet on par w/Tidal. Another plus for Tidal is the "blurbs" accompanying many albums. I think a lot of these come from the All Music Guide. I enjoy them. As far as your employee’s "paranormal" experience, the handle has less to do with that sort of thing than you might expect. On the other hand, I’m no skeptic about Reality being greater than the universe experienced through our five senses. |
Hello there O - Some comments about your Metheny links... "Last Train Home" - I know this one well from the very good live album, "The Road to You". It's a beautiful song. Pat at his lyrical best. TRTY has a couple of tracks from Still Life (Talking) including Last Train. It also contains material from another studio album, Letter From Home - an excellent Pat Metheny Group album from around this same time. For a good part of the '80s, Metheny was incorporating South American percussion. On this album, Armando Marcal is listed as percussionist. Elsewhere it's Nana Vasconcelos. I think these sounds lend something pretty magical to the music. My introduction to PMG was walking into a record store when "Wichita Falls" first came out. I'd never heard anything like it before. THAT became my favorite Metheny album for a long time. Released on the excellent ECM label. Actually got to hear it live later that year or the next when the Metheny Group performed at the McCarter Theatre in Princeton NJ. Felt like I was walking on clouds when I left the show. Have to admit I do not know Offramp at all. I remember when I was just getting into Metheny after hearing Wichita Falls, it and American Garage were LPs I always wanted to get but never did, as it turns out. I like the two tracks you posted from Offramp; esp. those synths on "Are You Going With Me" and Nana's brief vocal contributions on "Au Lait". Guess I'll be listening to some more Pat Metheny soon. Haven't pulled out my old stuff of his from the '80s in quite a while. Probably waited long enough and should get Am. Garage and Offramp too. Letter from Home here, if you've not heard it before. A groove not too different from your Last Train Home link... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGGqEivPIKs&ab_channel=MrAkdnt Here's the final track from Metheny's 2nd album, "Watercolors". This one alone is worth the price of the album.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2iuL69IF78&ab_channel=ΚωσταςΠετρακος |
In light of the exchanges about Chris Potter. this review might be of interest. I suspect the performance was "kind of the first draft" for Dreamer is the Dream. http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/music/reich/ct-chris-potter-review-ent-0130-20160129-col... Right now, I’d be lying if I said I were a fan....but that’s not intended as any sort of criticism of CP. O - I’m probably fortunate to remember I attended that Metheny concert, (although enjoyment was not pharmacologically enhanced ). I don’t recall what he wore. It is funny that you remark on that black and white shirt, though. He’s wearing a T with black and white horizontal stripes in a photo in the booklet included with The Road To You CD. Musta been a favorite and/or no woman complaining, "You wear the same thing all the time....". |
Hmm...the fact I’m not (immediately) a fan of Mr. Potter should carry little weight and CERTAINLY not be occasion for hurt feelings! I assume merit and truly think Potter has something going on that I’m just not equipped to hear at the present time. Maybe tomorrow :-) The review was certainly very favorable to him. Yeah, I know what you mean about that old school jailbird look, O. The Riddler’s henchmen added a little color. Ain’t fashion a funny thing. Going back to the brief mention of ECM not too long ago (and by way of example of something I can "hear"). This LP was my first encounter with ECM, Ralph Towner, Jan Garbarek, Eberhard Weber & Jon Christiansen. Borrowed from the public library. God bless libraries. Still holds my interest today after quite a few decades.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oUHONVAarQ&ab_channel=lapp9999 PS - O, Liked the Grover Washington. Yes...maybe a little '80s-ish/Al Jarreau-like (wouldn't go so far as call it Kenny G ! :-). Great groove on that track you posted. |
Thanks O for taking the time to think about what my preferences might be! BUT it's like my daddy used to say to me, "I taught you everything I know, and you still don't know nuthin'". Just kidding. re me and New Age...that isn't what I would have picked, though I can see how the Towner/Solstice album might have got you thinking that way (along with a couple other things we've shared in past communications). New Age has two strikes against it for me just based on the stereotypical connotation of that category name. Of course, there are exceptions...Shadowfax has some good music. Penguin Cafe is another. I guess you could consider Ralph Towner and esp. Oregon New Age-ish...though again, I like post-Oregon Towner but not too much of Oregon. If you asked ME about my "jazz preferences" (along with some Be-bop and some Hard Bop), I'd give the edge to "Fusion" and certainly NOT everything there. As an example of what I do like, that Chick Corea "Time Warp" is EXCELLENT and you are missing out on some great music by dismissing because it is outside your normal groove....just saying. Another good one by Corea is his Elektric Band II "Paint The World". Alan Pasqua's "Antisocial Club" is more excellent music. I hope you and others will check these out. I could go on in a Fusion kind of way, but won't. Gotta run. Hope you have a great day. Ciao. |
O - I will go back and listen to all of that Shadowfax track you linked and then provide some comments. I was mainly focusing on the music category assignments you made. For me, I don't think of New Age as jazz. I guess there might be exceptions... By the way, I said I liked some Be-bop and Hard-bop along with Fusion. Probably less Be-bop and more Hard-bop and Post-bop (along with Fusion). I was doing some reading about what those category names mean. Reminded me about the latter parts of Eastwood's "Bird" where CP is sort of bewildered by the ascendency of R&B. As per Wikipedia, some music writers claim Hard-bop was the response by certain jazz musicians to this "trend". Very interesting. |
O - I listened to the Shadowfax track you liked (and linked), "A Thousand Tear Drops". Quintessential Shadowfax. Sweet melancholy. I enjoyed the way it built from the opening’s simple melodic statement (Lyricon over piano & guitar) to the more complex, layered interplay heard around two minutes in. A well crafted piece. It has a similar feel to something by Oregon, just replace the Lyricon with Oboe. This is something that, a long time ago, I might have been inclined to spend more time with. Not so much now. Tastes change. On the other hand, this might be something I come back to when the mood hits. Of greater current "interest" is something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV32wlkZe1g&ab_channel=ChickCoreaQuartet-Topic Or better yet, try this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TxJiuKqir4&ab_channel=GaryWillis-Topic Both are very short. |
Hey there, Frogman. Now that you are back (vacationing?) maybe I can get someone else to join in appreciating this lesser known Chick Corea recording. Chick Corea Quartet, actually. Recall, if you will, comments made a few months back about not enjoying soprano sax. This track with Bob Berg is making me reconsider (along with some performances elsewhere by Jan Garbarek). I gather the album is considered fusion but more than rock I hear strong classical influences. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5FNzMICmsQ You might also enjoy track 4 (tenor not soprano) that I posted yesterday or the day before. |
"Enjoying the piano work."...but of course, why wouldn’t one? Herbie Hancock. Link to Wikipedia entry about "The All-seeing Eye"... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_All_Seeing_Eye |
Frogman - found it on Tidal and have it playing now. Thanks for the recommendation. As far as its position in my little music universe, it is too early to say much more than it is interesting and it might be something to revisit. I admire the solos that I’m hearing from Freddie Hubbard. He is RIGHT THERE in the spirit of the thing. Like from Wayne Shorter’s brain to FH’s trumpet. I wonder how "scripted" these pieces were. As is true for many recordings, woulda loved to be a fly on the studio wall. Witness the interactions, instructions, do-overs, etc. Have to go look at credits. Enjoying the piano work. Also the drumming and flugelhorn! Thought your post about this very well written. "...there is much more to jazz than nice, groovy drum CHIN-ka-CHIN’s and beautiful, bluesy melodies inside cozy and familiar structures." There are moments in this that have a classical feel, I think. Drawing a blank on who I was reminded of...George Crumb came to mind. Hah...had to Google "Contemporaries of Stravinsky". I think it might be Schoenberg I was thinking about. Well, maybe atonal composers in general....Heck, let's add Penderecki too! Curious what the back story is on this composition. All Music Guide was not that informative. Need to check Wiki, I suppose. Thanks again. |
F - Who is soloing at around 3:30 on Genesis? and then (again?) at 0:30 in Chaos. As I listen to this again, there are sections that remind me of Varese. The connection to modern classical (well, modern as in 20th century) is definitely there. I would love to know what these guys were listening to at this time. What were the influences? by the way - on Tidal it is actually one of the MQA releases. |
@frogman - Put your cursor over the album image to watch the You Tube progress line using the link below for the track, "Genesis". Around the 3 min 30 sec mark (after the bass solo starting at 2:10/2:12), a sax solo starts. My ear might not be that great distinguishing tenor from alto, esp if tenor is being played in the upper register, but regardless, after a slow build, this solo unfolds its wings and really flies. The subsequent transition into Freddie’s solo is striking as it is so seamless. Sax morphing into trumpet...or is that flugelhorn? :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MYhg4aVOSY I’m aware of the Varese/Zappa connection. Don’t wanna set on fire the hair of any of the orthodox faithful here but got to think Frank and Wayne were listening to similar things around this time. Thanks to Alexatpos for those links. |
Another George Coleman track (composer and performer).... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ0bWDz4sig From Cedar Walton's Eastern Rebellion. Forget who on this thread suggested the album but THANKS again. |
Hello O. I could say, "I'm not surprised" by your recent comment about the Chris Potter "Dreamer is the Dream" album...but WON'T :-) There was some discussion about him back on page 206 Aug 26, 2017. I still don't "get" him in the sense of...What's the justification? What's he doing to advance the form? What's new and fresh here? (even if there's only a subjective answer to that last) With respect to that CP album, wouldn't someone else have done much this same stuff before him and maybe better? If not stylistically or technically better, then better simply because they were first? Rhetorical questions. Those same questions do come to mind w/respect to a lot of the classic or traditional jazz that gets posted here. Maybe the subtle, distinguishing virtues of each is only apparent to ears that have listened to thousands of hours of this sort of music. For me, at this stage in my "aficionado-ish-ness" instead of a few 1000 jazz albums, I'm thinking, I only "need" (a couple dozen?) that are best of the best or represent significant deflection points in the evolution of the form. The work and learning is by way of the time invested digging through the overburden looking for a few diamonds...or at least those things that sparkle for me. This thread has provided great opportunity for exposure to such. Thank you yet again for starting it, O. Can honestly say I'm listening to a lot more jazz (even if it ain't always what you would favor) than I have in many, many years. Owe much of that to the music ideas that have been provided here largely by you, Frogman, alexatpos, and acman. Thanks to you all. Most recently (thanks again to Frogman again for the introduction) these diamonds would be preferred over that particular Chris Potter recording... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wZHJXPoFpI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r8L-9ay7uE |
Thank you Frogman. I’m responding to your last comments first. "...to focus only on the deflection points would be a big mistake. There were far more individualistic players back then who are really worth exploring...." That is exactly what is so helpful about this thread: the vets providing the tyro (Scrabble word :-) with exposure to musicians who might not get much type-space in the "Big Book of Jazz" but, none the less, noteworthy. I’m certainly open to considering "a unique style" as justification for inclusion in a personal jazz library. On the topic of Chris Potter (and I mean NO offense to acman who apparently "gets" him and had mentioned buying everything CP does...) I was going to include lack of emotional content but left it out since I’ve really not listened to much of him. Still, lack of an emotional connection was definitely an initial response (or lack of one) that hasn’t changed with limited subsequent listening. I tend to assume merit so if acman likes him, I’m guessing there is something good going on there. Maybe technical virtuosity (I do hear and get that aspect of CP) is the main thing he brings. I need more, I guess. Looking forward to checking out... Mintzer Liebman Grossman Lovano (did not check him out using your earlier link) Did a real quick sampling of your Lovano and Griffin links. Yes on Griffn’s tone. On the Lovano, like the tune, love the pianist. Not sure about Lovano. It’s funny though, JG is the one I started exploring. Apologies if this one below has been done to death previously, but check out the line up. Is that crazy or what? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJq7rmiFJUQ THANKS |
@orpheus10 - Good to read you are still capable of the mountain hike, O. Keep it up! Did not know you listen from a playlist. Ain’t that cheating? :-) In A Silent Way - HUGE deflection point. Never read much about how it was produced though. Box sets often seem like a money grab but the one you mention might be worth the price since it allows comparison between the unedited recordings and what Macero did with them. That is something I’d like to hear. I don’t keep up with everything posted on this thread. I didn’t catch your previous posts about the Wolfgang Muthspiel Quintet but I will track that down and at least do a little sampling of it. Ambrose Akinmusire is familiar to me as he played with Alan Pasqua on The Antisocial Club, a great recording I’ve mentioned on a number of occasions but about which you have remained pointedly silent...or so I think. Anyway - do get stronger. @chazro Frogman doesn’t need me to reply for him but I will anyway. Pretty certain he wasn’t dissing any of the 3 players mentioned...especially not Michael Brecker. The F’man gotta lot of love for MB. I will definitely sample some of your Anat Cohen. A new name to me. Thanks. Thanks too to Alex for the the J Griffin Studio Jazz Party recommendation. A good evening to all. PS - love the ECM label but they really need to lighten up on publication rights. Very difficult to find anything from that label on Tidal or Spotify. Tracks are available on YouTube, however (e.g., Father & Sun). |
Miles’ influence reaching into some disparate places... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k96zk09uyjU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FISFwcOz41U |
Anyone know the kind of horn Hugh Masakela is holding? Very clearly seen at 6:25 and 8:22. A variant on trumpet? Thanks in advance. (Please pardon the interruption.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLdWKWu7HKw |
Since finding and subsequently greatly enjoying Daniel Herskedal’s "Slow Eastbound Train" which was greeted by some here with overwhelming enthusiasm, I thought to find what others might be doing "jazz-wise" with the tuba. Encountered, the Modern Jazz Tuba Project. A familiar piece to serve as a comfortable introduction for Jazz-a-Fish. geezers.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwYKOLKdlSg&list=PLn4NWX2UFwNwdJHVTjlzptxmA6CNDGjxF&index=2 Here’s the group (trumpet players need not apply): 3 tubas & 3 euphoniums (euphonia?) http://webpages.charter.net/mjtproject/ Thinking I’ve become a low brass fan. |
Interesting bit of history from the MJT Project website... "...the MJT Project builds upon over fifty years of tradition utilizing the euphonium and tuba as lead instruments in jazz. This tradition started in the late 1940s with "the birth of the cool" and the collaboration between Miles Davis and Bill Barber on a number of recordings arranged by Gil Evans, and was extended through the 1950s by Harvey Phillips (the Sauter-Finegan Orchestra, Gil Evans, etc.) and Don Butterfield (Clark Terry, Dizzy Gillespie, Charles Mingus and others). By the late 1950s, bands were actually fronted by tubists such as Ray Draper (with "sideman" John Coltrane!) and Red Callender. In the late 1960s tubist Howard Johnson began his work with the Gil Evans Orchestra and with blues artist Taj Mahal, which led to the formation of the first jazz tuba ensemble, "Gravity", in 1968. Famous jazz euphoniumist Rich Matteson, along with tubist Harvey Phillips, continued exploring ensemble possibilities through the formation of the internationally acclaimed "Matteson-Phillips TUBAJAZZ CONSORT" in the mid-1970s. The MJT Project is an outgrowth of these traditions. Utilizing the talents of three outstanding jazz euphoniumists--Billy Huber and Barry Green of Nashville and Marcus Dickman of Jacksonville, Florida--and balancing the low end with tubists Joe Murphy and Winston Morris of Tennessee and Richard Perry of Hattiesburg, Mississippi, the MJT Project explores the best in jazz tuba literature. The rhythm section personnel are all first-call Nashville-based musicians who have performed and recorded with just about everybody in the music business with Steve Willets and Kevin Madill on keys, Paul Binkley and Mel Deal on guitar, Jim Ferguson on bass and Bob Mater on drums." |
Hi O - glad to see you posting. Just wanted to comment about your statement: "Finding good "new music" is harder than finding gold, but since I've given myself this burden, I shall carry on." I agree 100%, even if we do have pretty different tastes (though sometimes what we like DOES overlap). Anyway, I've been thinking a lot about my personal search for music that will have me coming back due to composition, performance AND recording quality!. It's like the 800 pound gorilla in the room (or maybe the gorilla that's NOT in the room but should be). Point being there's a lot of discussing and obsessing about the best hardware for audio when the critical variable that can make a mega $ system sound like trash or a mid-fi system sound great is the recording itself! No revelations there I know but just doesn't seem to get enough attention. This thread has been great. Wish there were others like it...one for each music "genre". |
"New" in the context here, is understood as new to me or you as listeners. Date of composition or first publication/performance pretty much irrelevant. Found Ahmad Jamal’s "Marseille" on Tidal. The whole album. Not real sure what I think yet. Not a lot going on with that title track. A repeating piano figure over a sort of military drum tattoo. The percussion is maybe the most interesting thing about it. I’ll see how far into the album I get tonight. ...already liking Motherless Child more. They captured nice tone on his piano. Wonder what kind it is. |
Cedar Walton... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l6PRNNMQl_YwckjUnU9FkFv-BljT7Pq9Y @pjw81563 returning the favor, perhaps. Newer-ish. 2014 release of live recordings (Keystone Corner San Fran) made Dec'77/Jan'78. SQ is just okay but the playing is superb. Walton, Bob Berg, David Williams, Billy Higgins + Freddie Hubbard. Of course, might be new to just me. |
Pardon the (non) commercial interruption. A neighbor sent this link tonight. Thought it worth sharing though no doubt not new to any of you veteran jazz fans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7m5joZPP0U&sns=em |
"Ghosthouse comes up with "Da Bomb". You are very welcome, Orpheus and while duly gratifying, it's undeserved credit. You know what they say, "even a blind squirrel....". Was my neighbor who sent me the link. If you are inclined to purchase, then this version might be the one to get. Worth noting they catalog it under Elvin Jones name! https://www.amazon.com/Complete-1961-Village-Vanguard-Recordings/dp/B000003NA3/ref=pd_cp_15_3?_encod... w/respect to Ry Cooder. Not of a jazz idiom but never the less well known the Stones and Keith Richards in particular owe MUCH to Ry Cooder; arguably writing and recording the best music of their career(s) using things he taught and shared and for which he was, at the time, barely acknowledged or credited let alone compensated (or so I've read). Good New Yorker article here... https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/ry-cooders-elegant-indignation |
I turn my back for 5 minutes and you are right back at it. If somebody didn't know better, they'd think you aren't happy unless you are arguing about SOMETHING! Not sure where this link came from (mighta even been from this thread) so, at the risk of repeating, here is something wonderful and somewhat apropos your latest "discussion". http://www.karmatube.org/videos.php?id=1312 Best wishes to all for a healthy, happy and safe 2018. |
@ps Agree with you about Esbjorn Svensson. There might, however, be some consolation in the music of Magnus Ostrom... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SinHjKx4rh4 as well as that of Lars Danielsson. |
So pleased you liked it, O. A great track. Dunno if they had Southside Chicago in mind or not but that title and Auger's playing are what prompted me to post it. YES - Oblivion Express and going back a little further (I think I have the direction right) there was Julie Driscoll, Brian Auger & Trinity. The guy has been around and paid his dues. His playing on the various CAB albums is superb. |
