Jazz for aficionados

Here's a percussionist I like;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y4cc8lzPBI


Here's some fantastic Brazilian percussion;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDPuQWg_A8Q

Rok, that must be my favorite "doo wop", and I have a doo wop collection on reel to reel.

I'm not sure about the effect R&R had on "doo wop"; I think doo wop morphed into "Motown", like jazz morphed into "fusion".

Out of all the genres of music, "Rock" is least understood by me, because when you done heard one rocker screaming and wailing on a guitar, plus a drummer pounding my ear drums out, you done heard em all.

Mary_jo, I'm glad you presented your side of this discussion in music. I only see 2 that I'm familiar with; "While My Guitar Weeps" and "The End". That opening intro with the helicopter blades whirring tells me it's "Nam"; being a vet who's considered a Nam vet, but never went to Nam, I found "Apocalypse Now" quite fascinating, and the same for The Doors.

Here's some music for thought;


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCBS5EtszYI


I'll get back to you regarding your other submissions.

I never attempted to ascertain the different divisions in Rock, such as "Heavy Metal" or maybe "Rock a billy" or whatever; as a matter of fact, I have always liked Santana, but never considered him Rock.

Rok, you just messed up my thoughts; but in either case, as you know Rok, "Delta Blues" has never been my groove, but Ike Turner reminded me of one of my experiences.

I was walking past a club where Ike Turner played, and saw a pretty girl as I passed the window. She was sitting at a table with two other "grown women", and I could see she was a teenager dressed up to look older. I was 14, and determined to get a better look. This club was divided into two sections, and minors could come in the front part to buy potato chips or pop, but not the back part where the entertainment went on. All of a sudden I developed a taste for potato chips.

I went in and fortunately for me, the guy behind the bar was busy, that gave me the opportunity to walk down the bar to get a close look; she was one of the prettiest girls I had ever seen. The "Tina Turner" you have been accustomed to seeing is pretty, but she was even prettier when she was 16; I had sweet dreams that night.

While I enjoyed listening to your submissions Mary_jo,the only one I have is "The End", and that's for a rather strange reason.

When I was into fusion, I would have bought Jeff Beck's Pork Pie Hat, but not now. The records I bought then, I hardly play now; for example;


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Cwoz_JnyM


I was really into this at that time, but I was into a lot of different things at that time. Is that "Rock" or what?

Here's one by Santana I still like;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AELE1a-3Bxo


As a matter of fact, I'm a Santana fan; is he "Rock"?

Rok, this is "doo wop";


  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBT3oDMCWpI


This is Rock and Roll;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgdufzXvjqw


Somehow I can not accept that these two are of the same genre.

I don't know if it's apparent to everyone else, but when I listen to all this music, it's apparent to me, that I have been through many phases of music in life; when I was young and extremely active, I was more into music that reflected that; rock to some extent. Now that I'm more inactive, I want to be in a reflective groove;


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxz9eZ1Aons


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CutrIZzTJl0


It's fair to say that while I don't find some Rock unappealing, I wouldn't rush out and buy it.

Music with scenery;


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlPOldBxxVs

This is some of the most beautiful music ever written, it has resonated down through the ages.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23x59neYlJ8

While I have maintained "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", which is a subjective stance; there is some music that's objectively beautiful, and if the beholder disagrees with this music, he should have his eyes checked.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIJZSs2gxdo


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLsg_Lk819s

Frogman, I woke up this morning, and this is the music that resonated; do you have any comments?


              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ_cUm0sr6c&index=2&list=PLIeVTsm02i1B9_XeOyHqjspQifdWvSlz6

Diana Krall with a distinctive Spanish accent, interesting.


In 2009, Cesaria Evora was made a knightess of the French Legion of Honour by the French French Minister of Culture and Communications Christine Albanel, the first Cape Verdean who became one.

Horace Silver's Father is also from the Cape Verdean Islands; hence song for my Father has an island lilt; The Album I'm speaking of.


Since I have no idea where those islands are, I asked "Wikipedia"


      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Verde


I have her in compilations but not a complete album, that must be corrected.

There is a case for it, but somebody has to file a law suit.  Law suits have been filed and won; I just read about one recently where the wrongdoers paid out big, but it took years.

Santana's "Black Magic Woman" to go with black lights that made ladies stockings glow in the dark, and hot pink was my favorite color; those were the days.

"The Prisoner" by Art Pepper, was most certainly one of his best.

This is my first time hearing Erik Satie: Gnossienne; it sounds a little like "Marche Slave"


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwqdOhF6LhE


In regard to music "resonating", it depends on the time of day, the weather, the humidity plus more factors than I am aware of; what I'm saying is I can like something one day and not like it the next; the last two fall in that category.

Yes Frogman, right from the opening notes you can tell he is a true Spanish guitar master; I'll have to check out more of his works.

I had trouble finding Fats Navarro when I was looking, it seems you've struck gold.

Mingus wrote a lot about "Theodore Navarro" in his autobiography.

That music and "Fats" really capture the essence of that time; this music is like a time machine that takes you back to another day when "Bop" was cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIBZPGYO4IE

I'm almost afraid to mention Quincy Jones music because of the controversy, but his music is undeniably good, even if his mental state is questionable.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6A3qT8_vWg


This is one boss jam, and I don't think it's in my collection, but it will be.


Quincy has been a part of so much fantastic music; I prefer we focus on the music and leave the controversy for others. Do you have any of Quincy's music you would like to share?

By the way I'll search for the albums that are in my collection.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebvHk62DUtA

Pryso, I told you we had the same collection; I bought "My Fair Lady" in the Fall of 59.

You guys are really submitting some beautiful music; I gave it "the once over" to confirm that, but I'm going to settle back and savor every last note later on.



Rok, who can ever forget Sergio Mendes and Brazil 66; absolutely fantastic!




Acman, that Previn was most tasteful, one of my favorites;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwEuR2TtW5c



Rok, that Lester Young with the Oscar Peterson Trio, is one that I will have to get.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlfg06DOrXA

Pryso, I only remember early purchases because I was in the Air Force, and each new album was an event that we shared with other airmen; consequently, I remember the party surrounding the reviewing of the album. (any event was an excuse for a party). But more current albums, I only have a vague idea when I purchased them, the same as you.

Getz's "Focus" is his most interesting album;


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXxybiV4Pxs&list=PLfOleD7-7Oj90W890D0puroQgM7yTR-0P

“Suite For Flute and Jazz Piano” with the great flutist Jean Pierre Rampal. *****

That was the most forgettable music I ever heard; I have the CD, but I don't know where it is.

Some reviewer wrote that you had to work in order to hear the "new jazz". I could have responded, "I'm retired, and I would only work if I got paid, now if you are willing to mail me some new jazz along with a check for listening, I would gladly oblige".

This new music is like the present generation, "It's confused"; however, there are some outstanding talents, and Liz Wright is one of them.


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hxVXFNks40



          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqgocq64mwg

I'm concerned about homelessness today;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFcSVOU1CRM

I once worked (without pay) for the homeless in my city; that was in the 80's when the problem was no where near what it is today. The vast majority suffered from mental problems, or they were winos. Very few of what you would call average normal people were homeless.

One woman who had a degree that commanded a high salary wound up homeless as a result of health problems. There was no way she was ever going to get hired if she put on her application that she lived in a homeless shelter; we had to give her a new place to live.

We devised a plan (the head of this shelter was very influential); we gave this lady a phone number (thanks to the phone company) that would give her address as the ritzy suburbs. That number rang at the shelter; which means she also had an answering service.

Since she was healthy when we devised this plan, in no time at all she was back at work earning the high salary she was qualified for. Had we not devised that plan, the woman could still be homeless, and gone wacky in the head; the two go together.

When I think of Blue Mitchel, I think of Horace Silver; that might be the only Blue Mitchel, I have, but it's boss.

What you submitted sure sounds good, him and Junior Cook have been blowing together for so long they can read one another's musical mind.


Blue Mitchell - trumpet
Junior Cook - tenor saxophone
Chick Corea - piano
Gene Taylor - bass
Al Foster - drums


That's another album I'll have to put on my order list.

Celebrating "Oscar Pettiford" today. While Mingus is one of my "go to" musicians, for all of his many incredible compositions, when just singling out the bass, Oscar Pettiford is my favorite.

Unfortunately, you won't find as many Oscar Pettiford records as Mingus, but I savor what I have. There is nothing "objective" about my choice; Frogman, the professional musician would be the one to make an "objective" comparison in regard to the two bassists.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5EwGijmqKc


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6u8j1jnJso


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut6LinT-DJI


While Mingus resonates with me, Oscar Pettiford resonates deeper.



Born September 30, 1922 Okmulgee, Oklahoma, United States Died September 8, 1960 (aged 37)
Copenhagen, Denmark Genre Jazz, bebop, third stream, Instruments Double bass, cello.
Years active 1942–1960 Labels Debut, Bethlehem, ABC Records

Associated acts Thelonious Monk, Coleman Hawkins, Charlie Barnet, Earl Hines, Ben Webster, Dizzy Gillespie, Miles Davis, Duke Ellington, Milt Jackson, Sonny Rollins, Art Tatum, Johnny Hodges, and Kenny Dorham. He was one of the earliest musicians to work in the bebop idiom.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVYWHPLuNtk


Blue Brothers Oscar Pettiford


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7gKcfKdeQ4


Tricotism; Lucky Thompson, OP, and Skeeter Best.



   

Pryso, I was so busy living my own life, I didn't realize the change in name meant a change in music; however, that explains why I liked them much more under the old moniker "The Jazz Crusaders"


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4ekBaJNg5w


I don't know if you recall me mentioning that I saw Maynard Ferguson just out on the town having a good time; I said friends, but from looking at this, it was with some of the members of his band. This is what he looked like, and since he had on a suit coat, he looked even fitter;


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlfg06DOrXA


It seems that since I always saw him clowning around on the Johnny Carson show, I never took him as a really serious jazz musician, that clip proves I was wrong.


   

I don't mean to break up the current party; although I don't agree with most of what's been said in regard to various genres and jazz, I'm just one person with one opinion.

Making good jazz music is never easy; the practitioner must spend years mastering his instrument, the same as a concert pianist; but the biggest difference is that jazz comes from within, maybe that's why the concert pianist can never make good jazz.

The concert pianist has all this written music (external), while the jazz pianist has it all internal, and he has worked hard for years to be able to express what he feels.

An example of this is "Bobby Timmons"; no one can express so much with so few notes. While I have noted many references to outstanding musicians, and I can't disagree with that, the complexity of the music might indicate the mastery of the instrument, but we're talking about "jazz"; somehow this music has to reach people on a deeper level, it has to "resonate" some profound innermost feelings; those are the feeling the jazz musician has sought to express in a meaningful way for his entire life. When he is successful, there is resonance, and we are in harmony with his music.

Music is a very personal thing for each individual; for me, I no longer listen with an attempt to evaluate the music, I simply turn the music on, and if it finds me, (achieves resonance and harmony) the music is a keeper, if not, on to the next thing.

Bill Frizell, Thomas Morgan, "Subconscious Lee"; the music reached me, I didn't have to make any effort. I checked and was surprised it was done in 2016.


Subconscious-Lee is a jazz album by Lee Konitz although a few tracks were issued on 78rpm under Lennie Tristano's name. It was recorded in 1949 and 1950, and released on the Prestige label.

Now everything makes perfect sense; ever heard of "Jack Kerouac"? I don't know where Lee Konitz got his inspiration from, but it sounds awfully "Beat" to me, can you dig it?

Rok, you and Frogman are making interesting conversation, but you both are totally wrong.

Do you recall an interview with Herby Hancock, where he stated how he goofed (played wrong chord or notes) and Miles came right behind him and made it all perfect; Miles thought that was what Herby intended to play. Improvisation is spontaneous, there is nothing predetermined about it.

Evidently, what you and Frogman can not comprehend, you must find other reasons for it's existence; I have seen jazz musicians perform impossible feats night after night; they're jazz musicians, that's what they do.

No matter how many people the concert pianist reached, the music was right in front of him and it may have been hundreds of years old; "external", outside of one's body; "internal", from the soul, that inner spirit that makes us alive, and different from every other human being on the planet; that's where the jazz musician is coming from.

In regard to reaching people, I'm sure the concert pianist reaches his desired audience. I may not hear anything when I look at a Beethoven piano sonata, but a concert pianist most certainly would when he looked at it; but did he create it?

Building blocks, nuts and bolts; I assume you are referring to the stuff that makes music; if so, all musicians use the same nuts and bolts, they just arrange them differently.

That quote was right on time Acman.

While I'm not a musician, I can tell you what I've witnessed; big time jazz musicians came to St. Louis, some time alone, and collected what was called a "pick up band". How they selected these musicians, maybe Frogman knows, I don't; but what I have seen is the fact that they gathered as short a time as 1 hour before the performance, and discussed what was supposed to go down.

When show time came, they performed like they had been playing together forever; nothing but spontaneous "hard bop"; improvisation all night long. While the lead man carried the bulk of the load, each sideman had to carry his share as well. Every night, the crowd, one that was geared specifically to improvisational "hard bop" was mesmerized.

What I have described is akin to what Miles talks about that went on at "Mintons" in his autobiography. I said "akin" because this wasn't a jam session, they were supporting the lead man, and his music in a fashion that good sidemen are capable of.

The Cooker is an album by the jazz trumpeter Lee Morgan, released on the Blue Note label in 1958 as BLP 1578. It was recorded on September 29, 1957, and features a quintet with Morgan, Pepper Adams, Bobby Timmons, Paul Chambers and Philly Joe Jones.

This is the first album to feature his own compositions, and the first without any compositions by Benny Golson.

Some people say this is the best "Night In Tunisia" ever; who am I to argue, for sure it's a contender for the best "Hard Bop" ever. Talking about an "All Star" cast, here it is; I could listen to this every other day and point out something new.


        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cooker


This is sweet sweet music to my ears.

Rok, I like stories like that, it makes the music real. If you can think of any more, please share them.

"Wikipedia"

Theodore "Fats" Navarro (September 24, 1923 – July 6, 1950[1]) was an American jazz trumpet player. He was a pioneer of the bebop style of jazz improvisation in the 1940s. He had a strong stylistic influence on many other players, most notably Clifford Brown.


  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT9Zb9ykj68


Here he sounds a lot like "Clifford Brown", or if properly stated, Clifford Brown sounds like him.

Frogman, you sometime mix apples and oranges and I don't know what you call the finished product. That's what you're doing when you mix classical and jazz.


""Obviously no disrespect intended toward these amazing players; only meant to point out that a classical pianist who understands that language on a higher level than a jazz musician and who perfected that particular discipline can generally do a better of doing justice to the music and touching the listener on an emotional level; just as a jazz player can generally do a better job with a jazz tune than a classical musician can.""


This is what you stated, and it sounds like gospel truth to me. Classical pianists are accustomed to playing written music, and for jazz musicians, when the music is written, that's just the ball park they are supposed to play in.


" But the achievement of jazz musicians in the area of expression or ability to reach the soul of the listener is no greater than that of a great Classical musician and I don’t understand the need to knock one down in order to build up the other; at least that’s how it seems."


I absolutely can not comprehend that; but here again we're speaking of apples and oranges; when some guy played the same identical "Bach Concerto" as another guy the night before, and someone else the night before that, I don't see any latitude for improvisation; and in all cases the music is precisely written down, and must be precisely executed as noted.


I have seen jazz musicians come into a room with no "formal" education in music, but acquired his ability to play his instrument through a lifetime of desire and dedication, and set the crowd on fire.

Now when ever I mention a lack of formal education, you interpret that as though it somehow makes that musician superior to one who has formal training, but it's just a matter of fact nothing more; I'm sure musicians who lacked formal education would have gone to a conservatory if they could have.

I absolutely put this musician on a pedestal higher than the classical musician who went to "Juilliard". The improvising jazz musician begins his night with nothing but his instrument, and an audience who is going to give him the thumbs down if he doesn't produce big time. This musician has to come up with original "hard bop" that's going to be spontaneous and improvisational for the whole night to please his always tough audience.

The classical musician comes into the concert hall to play something he's played many times before, to an audience that knows exactly what to expect; how can he fail?

I'm glad I've got a number of Tito Puente CD's; I've been a fan of his since I can remember.

I am thinking only of very special jazz musicians, and I assume you are thinking of special concert pianists. The bottom line is I don't resonate with the concert pianists, and it's too late now. Although I feel I'm right because of the "internal" and "external" statement I made, but "it ain't necessarily so".

Rok, I knew Mississippi was backwards, but that's stretching it, even for Mississippi.

When I went down there in 67, I thought I was in "The Twilight Zone". I am not exaggerating, the closer I got to Hattiesburg, the farther back I went in time; the gas pumps were the kind in old movies, my toy filling stations as a child were more modern.

The first thing I did when arriving in town was to get the bugs off of the "Deuce". Someone at the car wash upon observing the Illinois plates, remarked "Yall must be from Chicago" "How did yall guess" I responded.

Needles to say, riding in a new "Duece" with Illinois plates, in Hattiesburg, in 67, earned me a warm welcome.

Rok, I'm sure you had a wonderful childhood in Mississippi; I recall visiting relatives in Wynona when I was only 5 years old. There was a sweet and very fragrant aroma about the place in the grasslands that I will never forget, although I don't know what it was.

I remember watermelons fresh out of the patch, churning butter, incredible food, and lizards; a snake here and there, but mostly lizards; everywhere I was taken, a lizard seemed to be scampering across the dusty road.

There was no electricity, and at night they told ghost stories. Fortunately, I always slept with someone, because I was scared to death after all of those ghost stories; I could see "haints" coming to get me.

There was nothing more fun than fishing and swimming in creeks, plus chasing rabbits with dogs. I can very well understand how you had a fantastic childhood in Mississippi.

Frogman;


"In the beginning we had the wrong trumpet players, we had those who were classically trained. We had to tell them not to play exactly what was on the score. They started looking at us-at Gil mostly-like we were crazy. They couldn't improvise their way out of a paper bag, so we had to change trumpet players. Like most other classical players, they play only what you put in front of them".

Miles had other disparaging things to see about classical music; he called it "Robot s--t".


These are some of the remarks he made when he was putting "Sketches of Spain" together. Those are Miles Davis's remarks, not mine.

I beg to differ slightly "Jerry Butler" was R&B, as are most of the tunes you have posted.


Nor can I imagine being a teenager without that song.

Frogman, it's on page 243; "Miles, The Autobiography".

I've got this DVD;


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VLKngHexeU


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08e9k-c91E8


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXpRxzmawjw


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fztz_Vr9uHk

Any body remember this one;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT_eOiTwtoQ


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5rvJKviwaE

According to Wikipedia;


Jerry Butler, Jr. (born December 8, 1939) is an American soul singer and songwriter. He is also noted as being the original lead singer of the R&B vocal group the Impressions, as well as a 1991 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductee.

Since there is no R&B hall of fame, one can only go to the Rock and Roll hall of fame; consequently the confusion; but being an "audiologist", I can discern by what it sounds like, that's what it is.

Rok, what did you do; pick the worst George Benson you could find, he will never forgive you.


I know this is overplayed, but at least it's getting back to the "good" George Benson.


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgl1hQmjITY

I vaguely remember getting distant stations at night that you couldn't pick up in the day; they played R&R, plus R&B.

Like you said Pryso, Dick Clark changed everything for teenagers; it came on about the same time most of us got home from school, and we couldn't wait to catch the latest steps.

It's funny how we all shared the same sentimental songs; "girls", at least the ones we had a crush on, seemed more complex than geometry, but we were determined to figure them out, which always seemed to involve heartbreak; that brought us to these sentimental songs.



                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngZh6ZSRoYg

Nina Simone was playing piano at a lounge to earn money to pay for tuition that would further her studies in classical piano when the owner demanded that she sing to accompany herself.

That was the beginning of history as we know it. I still enjoy her instrumentals without any singing; she plays a mean jazz piano.


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHeIASIwBp0


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynnb6ejdEz0


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeMfDflHM1E


         

Nothing good came out of slavery,  although I wish the civil war had never been fought, and that the Mason Dixon Line would be our southern border.

Blacks are leaving America;


  http://www.phillytrib.com/commentary/mitchell-the-list-of-blacks-leaving-u-s-mainland-grows/article_...


  https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/we-re-out-black-americans-leaving-country-trump-takes-office-n70...


  http://avidly.lareviewofbooks.org/2017/08/24/leaving-america-behind/



Once upon a time it was about racist in the country, now it's about a racist country from the "White House" on down.

As you stated Pryso, they still succeeded in making great music after dropping the "Jazz" from the name of the group; however, I have more recordings by the "Jazz Crusaders";


              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GdJtyvhI1E


              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0iqqcs80cA