Jazz for aficionados

@frogman

Yes. You are of course 100% correct. I should have said diatonic chord changes. I’m aware that one may take the tones of a single chord and utilize them as a scale from which to build other chords, that while remaining within a single harmony in theoretical terms, allow players to deploy more contrast, movement and tension/resolution compared to simply vamping away on a single root voicing. Then, there is also the possibility of superimposing other harmonies on top of the root harmony. I didn’t go into this stuff because I don’t assume that everyone here is a player and is therefore interested but I will make an effort to be more accurate in future!

Something mentioned by @simonmoon on @jafant’s ongoing "new in 2024" thread: "Perpetual Mutations" by Gavin Harrison and Antoine Farad. These players are new to me and I’m not sure how to label this genre but I’m guessing some of you might enjoy it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe2y_CtrFhg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGmQST2nMGA

@jafant 

We can both be thankful to @simonmoon , who consistently recommends music no one else ever mentions!

 . 

@curiousjim 

You might like this one, too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3OtGHbvI0s

@curiousjim 

Any of the records Roy Du Naan engineered for Contemporary. Many should be streamable. 

Here's a list: :

https://www.discogs.com/artist/407308-Roy-DuNann

@curiousjim 

You're welcome!

I always enjoy the sound of Du Naan's records.

I'd like to pick up a few more.

For a non Jazz recording, try "Come On Home" by Boz Scaggs.

@curiousjim 

Always happy to share what I've discovered. 

BTW -- which S. Fabers are you demoing??????

@curiousjim 

Great! I'll keep my fingers crossed!

@curiousjim 

You're welcome! 

@curiousjim

I originally bought it due to the Penguin Guide’s favorable rating. They are pretty persnickety.

I haven’t come across any other all-acoustic sessions where he was the leader but then I can't say I've really done an exhaustive search. Here are a few I know of where he appears as a sideman:

• "Eastern Rebellion 3"
• George Cables’ "Phantom of the City"
• Cedar Walton’s , "First Set", "Second Set", "Third Set"
• Marc Copeland’s "Stompin’ With Savoy"

There are probably others.

...And if you haven’t the original Eastern Rebellion with George Coleman, you owe it to yourself to check it out!

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=eastern+rebellion

I don’t know how complete this is but here is his wikipedia discography: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Berg

@curiousjim 

Can't say I'm surprised.

Glad the experiment vindicated your upgrade choices.

I've just skimmed through these -- at first listen, I like them a lot. Will explore in depth. Cool discovery!  

Revisiting Pharoah Sander's "Welcome to Love". If anything qualifies for the term "rapturous", this does. When I was young, I was drawn to atonality. This has changed significantly with age. I can't handle the abrasive Pharaoh at this point but the mellowed Pharaoh is wonderful. 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=pharoah+sander+welcome+to+love

@frogman 

Melancholy is the word that comes to mind when listening to Trane’s.

...which would seem to be more consistent with the lyrics: 

You don't know what love is
Until you've learned the meaning of the blues
Until you've loved a love you had to loose
You don't know what love is

You don't know how lips hurt
Until you've kissed and had to pay the cost
Until you've flipped you're heart and you have lost
You don't know what love is

Do you know how a lost heart fears
The thought of reminiscing
And how lips have taste of tears
Loose the taste for kissing

You don't know how hearts burn
For love that cannot live, yet never dies
Until you've faced each dawn with sleepless eyes
You don't know what love is

You don't know how hearts burn
For love that cannot live, yet never dies
Until you've faced each dawn with sleepless eyes
How could you know what love is, what love is

@curiousjim 

Which version?

Like @frogman I find Coltrane's version melancholy-sounding. 

@curiousjim 

Perhaps you're thinking of the link to "Welcome To Love" by Pharaoh Sanders?

On that album, Y.D.K.W.L.I. is the first tune.  

@curiousjim 

Is this your first exposure to the Quartet?

@curiousjim 

Well, aging sure isn't improving mine!     ;o)

@ghdprentice 

It could well be. I've found myself putting things that go into the fridge into the pantry and vice versa. Walking purposefully into a room only to realize one has forgotten the purpose is another example. I suppose all on can do is develop a sense of humor but it's disconcerting at times.  

Another great Dexter Gordon album:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dexter+gordon+GO

@acman3 

Thanks for the wonderful D. Gordon links!

When he starts playing, everything else fades away and there's just the music... 

@ghdprentice 

The fortunate thing about this memory problem is that it occurs because I am processing other thoughts… like the thesis of some philosophical lecture I just listened to, so it’s not simply an empty head… more like too cluttered.

 

Wish I could make the same assertion !   

@curiousjim 

I seem to recall you replaced the Hegel with something else. 

What are you using to power the S. Fabers??? 

@alexatpos 

Thanks for the background to an unusual song. Interesting story. 

@curiousjim 

Congratulations -- I hope they'll provide you with many years of musical bliss!

@curiousjim

the Hegel is a SS integrated and the PS Audio’s are tube input and SS output on all three pieces.

Yes; I know! That’s why I’m interested. ;o)

Are you aware the trio released a subsequent 2 CD set ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCl9DCT01mY&list=OLAK5uy_lxxgYeLrgCLxAlNJEf2qu03l-CNar81Zk&index=2

@curiousjim

I’ll be interested to hear what you decide. 

@frogman 

As I handed him a few dollars I said to him: “It sounds really good, man, but you know that spot in the tune where it goes down a……” He interrupted me and seeming a little annoyed said in a gravelly voice “I know, I know man, but I make more money that way!” Cracked me up.

So, in the context of the Sonny Rollins video, this guy knew how to inject entertainment into art at just the right place in the tune...

@jafant 

I was lucky to catch Potter live several times with Dave Holland's 5tet.

Monster player!

@acman3

Somehow I missed this. Thanks for alerting us to this amazing group! 

@jafant

Thanks for alerting us to W. Wolf!

Am enjoying him on youtube as I type. 

BTW, I decided to go with the Cardas Clear Reflection IC’s for my headphone set-up. Should arrive next week.

@acman3

"Sweet" indeed!

This one is going right to the top of my short list of CD’s to buy.

Thanks!

Here’s my attempt to repay the favor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZUF3U7bDSI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxEs-dcc8yk&list=RDhZUF3U7bDSI&index=3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELffl3TQZ5k&list=RDhZUF3U7bDSI&index=4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAlm6_oj6OE&list=RDhZUF3U7bDSI&index=5

Do you recognize the piano player?

Originally released on this recording:

https://www.discogs.com/master/709610-Sheila-Jordan-Lost-And-Found

@mahgister 

Great to have you back! 

@jafant 

My favorite T. Harrell record is Labyrinth.

What about you?

@jafant

RE: "hard-pressed", I realize I’m a bit odd in that regard! ;o)

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tom+harrell+labyrinth

RE: Harrell with Phil Woods, also check out "Integrity:The New Phil Woods Quintet Recorded Live": 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vXKTPhH9Kk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baxfCcewiSc

(In addition to the above, there are more tracks available on Youtube, although I don't know if, together, they comprise the entire album)

@jafant

I really enjoyed Tom’s "Labyrinth" disc. Anything with Kenny Werner, I am there!

Glad to hear you enjoyed it!

About ten years ago, my wife and I were lucky to catch Werner’s trio in a very intimate venue. Even better, we were able to remain for the 2nd set, as it had not been sold out.

Besides playing and teaching, Werner also wrote a very interesting book on the psychological issues confronting performing musicians.

I’ve never warmed to Sam Rivers, in any of the settings I’ve heard. I need a bit more consonance. Nothing wrong with George Colemans’s playing with Miles, from my perspective. "My Funny Valentine" remains one of my favorite Miles releases, several decades after I first heard it and Maiden Voyage is still one of my favorite Blue Notes.

Re: Shorter vs. Coleman, as a listener, for me, it comes down to the mood I’m in, on any given day or evening. I don’t want to listen to Shorter’s Blue Notes or the 2nd Great 5tet all the time, even though these recordings are among my all time favorites. If I couldn’t listen to Coleman, Jordan, Gordon, Lovano, Potter, or any other tenor player without thinking "Well, Miles would rather play with Wayne than this guy", that would not be a good thing. I want to be able to be fully present with whatever I’m listening to in the moment without interference from the left brain’s fondness for analysis, comparison and judgement. As much as I respect giants like Miles, Tony, Herbie and Ron, I don’t want to share my listening chair with them!

@frogman

"Porter" ? You mean, Potter?

@frogman 

Well OK. But having witnessed Potter 4 X with Dave Holland Quintet, I'm curious as to your reasoning. He can certainly handle very slippery timing and harmonically ambiguous settings. 

@frogman 

Thanks for your response. I'm always learning something new from your posts !

Perhaps my ear is simply not sufficiently acute to perceive the dominant  "Jazz/Rock sensibility" you pick up on in Potter's playing. Or perhaps this is simply a result of my not having heard him in enough settings to form a more rounded opinion. 

As far as abstraction is concerned, it was not atypical for the Dave Holland Quintet (live at least) to venture "outside". The music could get fairly Free during such interludes. You might have disagreed with me had you been sitting in the venue but at such times, but what was played did not in my ears/brain, evoke associations or parallels with/to Jazz/Rock's harmonic language. More like Freed-up New Orleans style simultaneous improv. 

I now see I misunderstood your original comment. I didn't consider whether Miles would've found Potter's playing in synch with his vision at the time Shorter was enlisted. I'm sure you're right that Miles was not looking for a Coltrane disciple at that point. 

Finally, regarding the link, Shai Maestro's playing sounds quite Pop-influenced to me. That's not something that, to my ear, figures strongly in Dave Holland's compositions, so I wouldn't expect Potter to respond the same way. Having said that, I'm not a professional musician. No doubt there is much that is obvious to you that I miss!  

@frogman 

Ah -- "hint of..." -- my mistake!  

Yes; I can definitely see how Lovano and Potter differ. 

This isn't the case regarding Potter and Brecker. I'm not disputing the parallels you draw, it's just that I haven't listened much to Brecker. I'm generally not a fan of whatever one calls electrified amalgamations of Jazz , Rock, Pop and Funk (as distinct from early "classic Fusion" ala Mahavishnu) and Brecker seems to have recorded an awful lot in that vein. I have heard a few examples of Brecker playing in straight ahead all-acoustic settings and while I admire his "iron" chops and  intelligence, I don't find him particularly emotionally engaging. I'm aware that Potter has released some more commercial-sounding recordings but I haven't heard them. The recordings I have heard by him have not left me feeling emotionally unengaged. For one thing, he displays a lyrical bent at times that seems very different from what I've heard so far from Brecker. 

 I know -- "Ignorance of the Jazz is no excuse" -- I shouldn't be so constrained by my tastes.  Although they sound like quite different players to these ears, I'll take your word for it regarding Brecker's influence on Potter.  

@frogman 

OK. You read my mind. 

I don't know if this will impel me to buy any of his recordings but I can't complain that he never plays lyrically.   ;o)

@coltrane1

... whatever turns you on. Jazz is a huge, multifaceted genre, so there is plenty to explore, choose from and enjoy!

@mahgister

Then our taste did not express a mere contingent free will as a choice but also reflect something about us even in our physiological reaction that constrain the choice...

I’m not sure I grasp what you mean, here.

You’re suggesting there’s an unconscious somatic shrinking away from or filtering elements out of that which we’re hearing at the same time we’re consciously embracing it. . . or ???

@mahgister

Also i listen more with my heart than with my brain.

I can relate!

When we interrogate ourselves about our taste we learn less about music than about ourselves for sure...

So true. What do you think "taste" is made up of, exactly?  What are the underlying factors that drive our preferences? 

@mahgister

Thanks for the further explanation, data and examples regarding a fascinating topic!  

@frogman 

Another version: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxEs-dcc8yk

To me, Tony Bennett's version sounds almost "operatic" by comparison. 

@frogman

IMO, the song does not work as well with “jazzy” inflections. Sheila Jordan’s version has an element of sultriness that I feel is completely inappropriate for the story behind the song. Moreover, the rendition sounds belabored. It’s hardest to sing (and play) really slow tempi. I do like Jordan, but not this song choice.

Different strokes. I happen to enjoy the "Jazzy" inflections. It would never occur to me to describe Jordan’s interpretation as "sultry". To my ears, there is certainly a bluesy, "earthy" quality to her interpretation but I specifically associate the term "sultry" with a quality of teasing sexuality (unless of course we are talking about hot, humid weather). If this seductive quality is present in Jordan's performance, I don't perceive it. 

Bennett's vocals display, to my ear, a sort of "larger than life" drama I associate with the stage-- be it opera or Broadway musicals--  that's simply not my cup of tea.  

@frogman

Didn’t realize I’d already posted -- I thought I was still in editing mode, but no matter.

I guess, what it boils down to is, I don’t find Bennett’s (as I perceive it) highly theatrical tone any more "childlike" than Jordan’s earthy tone. Perhaps if the Bennet arrangement were less grandiose, I might conclude otherwise. Needless to say, it's subjective. 

I agree with @mahgister when he says "We all for example recognize Frogman as a well informed person about music in general and jazz in particular" and appreciate your willingness to engage with us, here.