O - I liked best of all that 3rd video w/Dakota Staton scatting. If you want to put up a good example of West Coast jazz, I will check it out. I recall some discussion about that going back a good few months (or more). Did not follow it then.
Frogman - I misunderstood about Brecker's last recording.
Not sure Orsted Pedersen's playing - as good as it is - is going to change my b in l's mind about double bass solos. He doesn't have anything against them as part of a rhythm section...just doesn't appreciate paying to hear Jarrett or the like and then being subjected to an extended double bass solo. I think he doesn't view the instrument as a suitable vehicle for conveying melodic content. What they do try to convey, he ain't buyin'. :-) |
@acman3
Thanks. Doubt we’ll make a convert but that is some amazing work by McBride. As noted before, these guys have to have like martial arts quality fingers. Would not want to get poked in the eye by one of ’em.
That Henning/Pedersen Double bass Steeple Chase recording seems interesting. Don’t know Sam Jones. Without looking him up, guessing he’s playing the guitar. Anyway, thanks for posting.
Going back to that Chick Corea video "Steps". His runs are very impressive but I love the chords he bangs out. Don’t know Kenny Garrett at all but I was struck by that mellow tone he has. Sounds very oboe-like at the start of his soloing at around 7 minutes. That is one crazy over the top solo...especially how he ends it on those ascending intervals of sustained notes. That’s a good one, Acman. Great performance. There is JOY in that video. Roy Haynes - wow. Thanks.
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Orpheus - Okay...I expect you are talking about "Remembering Bud Powell"? That had the same personnel as in Acman's last video (well worth watching, I might add) + a few additions.
If you fell in love with songs as done by Artist A, I can appreciate there's going to be a higher threshold to cross in order for Artist B's version to be enjoyed or, even tougher, loved.
Regardless, don't miss Acman's video of "Steps". Pretty high energy.
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Thanks, O. I will listen to those. I already sampled the Getz Focus. My initial reaction to it was not that positive. Strings with jazz sax seems like oil and water to me. I didn't feel like one enhanced the other or that together they generated a whole that was greater than the sum of the parts. Not wanting to be harsh, but that was the initial reaction. I'll check out more of that recording (and the others) later. |
O - Comments about Focus. Listened to all the YouTube tracks.
I had written comments about each track while listening the first time. Got distracted; changed the web page and lost all of it.
Found the whole thing on Spotify. Tracks in proper order here. Playing it again as I write though not going to try and recreate comments for each track. The upshot however is:
I like Stan Getz’s tone (a lot). I know his name but never knowingly listened to him. From what I read, that mellow, smooth tone is something of a trademark of his. Even when he’s getting intense (e.g., around the 3 minute mark on "Pan") it doesn’t seem to get harsh. His playing very much fits the mood of Sauter’s compositions.
I like Eddie Sauter’s music and his arrangements. "I Remember When" is gorgeous. There are other moments of real beauty throughout. In fact, the more I listen the more I like. I’ve always been a sucker for strings.
Seemed to me the pairing of jazz sax over string orchestra worked best on pieces that leaned more towards a popular music/film score sound - (cases in point: "I Remember When" and "Her") vs those that seemed more classically inspired.
The idea of Getz playing (improvising?) over a string orchestra seems a nice experiment but I can’t help wondering how this would sound if the solo instrument were played in a straighter/classical style and was something other than sax...English horn? if that were possible to do (transpose?). OR if instead of orchestra, Getz were playing in a traditional jazz quartet (piano, bass, drums, Getz).
Have to say for all my initial reservations and negativity towards string orchestra backing jazz sax...this thing is seductive. I think it’s doing something to my brain.
Haven’t gotten to the other two West Coast jazz tracks but will, though probably not tonight.
Thanks for introducing me to this.
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Well, I was curious and couldn’t wait.
So I listened to both those other tracks...The 1958 Newport Performance by Jimmy Giuffre "The Train and The River" (with valve trombone and guitar). That’s another odd little track. Sounds very modern to me...like something Phillip Glass might have composed. Minimalism is the term, I think. Enjoyed it.
Also enjoyed the Gerry Mulligan, "I’m Gonna Go Fishin’ " I bet seeing that jazz band live would have been fun.
If this is West Coast jazz it definitely has a different feel than a lot of the stuff I’ve heard that seems more related to Miles and Coltrane. These examples of West Coast jazz are great music but seem to be missing something by comparison. Almost a little to sanitized; missing some grit...a little less heart or soul. Definitely doesn’t seem to have the drive of be bop, hard bop, post bop....whatever! You said it was mellow and I guess I can hear that.
There’s a place for all of it, I suppose and the West Coast sound does seem to provide a nice change of pace from the hard charging, non sop breathlessness of "???-bop jazz". Or so I think.
So what else you got, O? :-) And thanks yet again.
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Sorry, randy-11, can't help you with that one. |
Hey O - see my reply from 11:35 last evening re West Coast vs Bop. There’s a place for both and fortunately we don’t have to pick one style over the other. "East Coast" (I hadn’t been certain that was a meaningful category name, but since you use it....) definitely seems the grittier of the two. On any given day I might prefer Hard Bop to start, but listen long enough and West Coast, as I said last night, is a nice change of pace. But talking East Coast, I couldn’t find Pilgrimage as recommended by Frogman. Instead, started listening to Brecker’s Tales from the Hudson River. This is Track 5, African Skies. McCoy Tyner guesting. The entire album is pretty strong. I’ve listened to it all several times since finding it just the other day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCOAvvumyWg&ab_channel=JazzHawkFWIW - One thing I’m learning about my personal taste at this point in time: tend to prefer quartets and quintets to anything smaller. In fact, I can get more specific than that. Start with drums, bass, piano (trio's tolerable if there's a piano) and add one or more other soloists (e.g., woodwind and/or brass). |
@frogman
This is a hard listen for me. I am 20+ minutes into Pilgrimage and so far (especially w/respect to MBs soloing) it has seemed an undifferentiated mass of noodling. On the first 3 tracks, very little structure that I can grasp or melodic content (not that I'm looking for something to whistle in the shower). Okay have now gotten to Tumbleweed and there's a bit more that's accessible here. I read the All Music comments and the first few reviews on Amazon. A highly regarded album. I can "see" why you would group it with the likes of Three Quartets. But overall, kind of a slog for me (and there's still almost an hour left!). Might be a little beyond where I'm at "music appreciation-wise". I'll try to come back to it; sometimes the soul receiver ain't tuned in quite right. Might become a favorite listen as is sometimes the case with things that were not immediately appreciated. Thanks again. I remain interested in your recommendations. |
O - re the Brubeck Trio w/Desmond & Mulligan...
I had to rewrite what I started out with. Initially: if ALL West Coast Jazz were like THIS, just shoot me. No doubt, East Coast/bop would be greatly preferred. Geez, give these guys some amphetamine...and I ain’t talking about the tempo!
By the end, however: This is really, really good! Starts out slow and I don’t care much for Desmond’s alto sax tone (not a fan of soprano sax or clarinet, either). Got hooked by Bruckbeck’s solo starting at 6 minutes and especially with the chord progression/theme he plays around the 7 minute mark. Then right before 7:40 Brubeck and Desmond start playing a kind of counter melody duet (not sure the proper technical term). By 9:15 Mulligan has joined in and they are all playing counter melodies (?). It is sounding like a piece of baroque chamber music. Very, very fine. |
Frogman - I should have been clearer about "unable to find it". I meant on Tidal or Spotify so couldn't readily listen through the main system. Yes, I did see it on YouTube. Thank you. |
O - listened to "Somethin’ Else". Interesting feel to it. Overall, more laid back than expected. Seemed more akin to some of that West Coast Jazz you posted. A classic album I’m sure. Liked the arrangements and playing. I enjoy Miles’ muted trumpet sound. It almost sounds like he’s playing two notes at once when he first comes in on Autumn Leaves. Overall though, it isn’t something I feel compelled to own. Not enough there to hold my interest - for whatever reason. That isn’t by any means a comment about the quality of the music. Regret not to being able to respond to your suggestion with greater enthusiasm. Do appreciate your patience, interest and sharing.
Frogman - I probably could have been a little more diplomatic and less dismissive by choosing another word than "noodling". I absolutely DO appreciate some music requires more effort to enter. But for me, with that sort of music, it seems to leave a little seed behind that draws me back. No sense of that with the first 3 tracks on Pilgrimage. They just had me wondering "Why? What’s the point?" Maybe I was tired during that audition. Anyway, as mentioned, I’ll try going back. Tumbleweed did seem to be more accessible.
I’m playing that S/T Michael Brecker you posted a link to. "Choices" is up now...3/7 from The Cult of Michael Brecker playlist. This track I am liking. However the opening of Syzygy induced that same "What the heck?!" reaction as Pilgrimage. "Dude, I know you can play! Do you have to beat me over the head with it?" Less would be more, I think. My Bro in Law has talked about "musician’s music". In fact I remember him bringing over a Brecker Bros. LP way way long time ago. Think that’s the way he referred to that LP. Maybe that’s the case for Pilgrimage. I acknowledge Brecker’s technical excellence (even though I’m not adequately trained to fully understand it). Don’t always connect emotionally with what he is doing. On the other hand Tales from the Hudson works very well and this S/T debut has promise. Pretty certain I’ll revisit his debut sooner rather than later. Thanks to you too for the patience and sharing.
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Hey there O - Funny you should make that comment about Portuguese. Learned a little Spanish. Grew up around Italian. For various reasons been exposed in the last few years to (Brazilian) Portuguese from native speakers. I expect there's a difference from that spoken in Portugual proper, never the less, it has struck me as the most beautiful sounding language - and like you, I understand none of it. "...jazz in general is a language that doesn't speak to you." - broadly speaking, that might be the case, but I'll continue to look for the exceptions that do. Turning the tables a bit, what's your reaction to Brecker's African Skies? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCOAvvumyWg |
O - If you've not been in a while, a good time to go back! Your son might enjoy it too (and now, less likely to get lost, I'd expect). Would happily join if I lived closer. Visiting art museums is a favorite thing to do when traveling.
I see the St Louis Museum of Art has a very nice website. |
Hello again Orpheus - So the album is Mingus’ "Ah Um"? Andy Summers did an album of Mingus’ music called, "Peggy’s Blue Sky Light". Didn’t cover "Better Get Hit in Your Soul" but he did cover Goodby Pork Pie Hat and Boogie Stop Shuffle from Ah Um. In addition, Fables of Faubus appears as a bonus track on his Earth + Sky. Would have posted Summers’ version of Better Get Hit but couldn’t find one (nor of Fables) on You Tube. Instead, here is his version of Boogie Stop Shuffle. Actually the whole of Blue Skylight is at the 2nd link. Wonder what you will think of these more contemporary "takes". Still interested too in your thoughts on Brecker’s "African Skies", by the way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_dD9W7liwA&index=1&list=PLQ4IOTdzCC4cywUvFGbWDKBcWf8GLgndt&...https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQ4IOTdzCC4cywUvFGbWDKBcWf8GLgndtWhat's up with the alternate spellings for "Better Get It?" is it Git Hit?? |
O - I DID sample the Mingus Git It & Fables. That’s how I knew to reference the Andy Summers. But yes, in terms of "did it rock my world?" (to use that cliche)....No. Even so, I can hear how radical that Mingus LP must have been when it came out vs the other jazz jazz of the day; I do prefer Fables more than Git It in that respect. Reading about it, Ah Um is certainly held in high regard. According to Wikipedia, "Mingus Ah Um was one of fifty recordings chosen by the Library of Congress to be added to the National Recording Registry....". I’m guessing you and I are separated taste-wise by more of a cultural divide than I at first realized. That divide, as you have mentioned several times, reflects the times we grew up in. The jazz jazz you enjoy, I often find lacking in melodic or rhythmic interest; it just seems "light" to me - thinking about Somethin’ Else (or even, Git It) as examples. I know that’s "heresy"; and I am NOT talking "light" as in light jazz. BUT I still greatly appreciate learning about these historic jazz albums. It’s like visiting a great art museum for jazz. We all don’t respond in the same way to every style of art that’s on display. I might prefer Flemish painters and not like Expressionism at all. But you won’t hear me arguing Expressionist art shouldn’t be in the museum. I just won’t be in the gift shop later buying a print of one of those pieces. As far as the Brecker, Syzygy was Frogman’s recommendation and off Brecker’s self-titled debut album as leader. That’s a tough listen too...like what I heard on Pilgrimage’s first few tracks. African Skies is off his Tales from the Hudson. African Skies sounds like JAZZ JAZZ to me and I really like it. It’s got a strong melody that is worked in an interesting way, great rhythmic drive and excellent solos; a varied aural texture. Not boring at all. I still want to know what you think about it. Here’s a link again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvFVxU3j620&ab_channel=strumaus Brecker seems like a force of nature to me. He DOES remind me of Coltrane in that way. Listen to JC’s. soloing on One Down, One Up. A little overwhelming and almost too much to take in. I’m hardly any kind of expert on him but the Brecker I’ve enjoyed so far has been when he is grounded and balanced in a larger ensemble (like on that Tales from the Hudson recording). Gotta run. Ciao. |
Frogman - I might not like Syzygy any more after reading your explanation (the intro, anyway) but now at least I have a better sense of what’s going on there. Very helpful discussion. Opens a little window that might also illuminate pieces other than Syzygy. Thanks.
Yes, that intro...it surely do create tension! :-) |
I enjoy reading your reminiscences, Orpheus. Thanks. |
Enhoyed the McCoy Tyner interview very much, Frogman. Thanks. (BTW - What a gracious, well spoken individual he seems.)
A while ago I started Bill Cole’s book on Coltrane but got bogged down with some of the music transcriptions. Need to get back to reading that. |
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Frogman, Orpheus - Seems to me this might be another example of that objectivist/subjectivist music dynamic that generates much discussion on this thread...or at least that’s how I interpret it. You two are Yin & Yang, two sides of the same coin.
I’ve NO problem with Orpheus recollection of his and the audience’s reaction to that Coltrane performance OR Frogman’s comments about JC’s work in that period. F’s 7:03PM 6/7 post makes a lot of sense to me and seems to be consistent with and explain what Orpheus witnessed. Even though audiences might have known JC from his work with Miles, that didn’t necessarily prepare them for what he might get into on any given night once he started performing with his own band. McCoy Tyner in that interview talks about how he was always exploring and experimenting, preferring not to do the same thing twice. The audience that O was part of might well have witnessed something they weren’t totally ready for. Heck, maybe it wasn’t even one of John’s more successful explorations.
I certainly do not understand what is provoking any ill-humor.
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"...what Ghosthouse means is the reliance primarily on a personal observational and emotional reaction to music or event when making commentary vs making commentary that is rooted in a generally accepted factual reality: subjective/objective...yin/yang. Please correct me if I am misconstruing."
That is absolutely correct, Frogman and your further comments are exactly right too. I’m merely attempting to characterize the two "opposite" points of view that often result in much needlessly contentious discussion! I put "opposite" in quotes because they are not at all mutually exclusive. Fuller enjoyment of the music results when both are present. Given the subjectivist side is capably represented by Orpheus, you are often put in the role of providing the other perspective. I absolutely did not intend to imply your appreciation was defined solely by objectivist /intellectual analysis. That was an inference I did not foresee.
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Thanks for all those links, Frogman. Lots to consider. re Eric Dolphy and the bass clarinet. I wish I could appreciate him more. There is something there, no doubt, but he is beyond me at this point in time. You might recall, a while back, Rok posted a B&W video of the Chas. Mingus sextet doing take the A-Train live somewhere in Scandinavia. In addition to a great Jaki Byard solo on piano, ED solo'd at length on bass clarinet (you characterized it as "wonderfully eccentric", which it was). Mingus walked off stage in the middle of it...to use the restroom I suppose. That is a fascinating clip that bears repeated watching. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xObINuHiMGI |
Chick Corea must be a recidivist. This from 2013. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYF37fTtPWEWardrobe still could use a little tidying up but at least he's employing a "real" bass and bass player unlike the studio version of The Vigil that uses the "just so-so" (ha!) talents of the electric bass player, Hadrien Feraud. |
@dlcockrum - Was traveling and unable to reply promptly but a belated "THANKS" for the Bruce Katz "Transformation" recommendation. Found it on Tidal. I'm enjoying the music (melodious, accessible yet not superficial) and the sonics are great. Excellent recording all around. Returning the favor (perhaps)... you might enjoy "The New Standard" by Jamie Saft. Here are two sample tracks (7 & 8): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvi4iKz-AOI&ab_channel=JamieSaft-Topichttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFKzC8DrGGw&ab_channel=JamieSaft-TopicI do prefer the tonal balance of the Transformation recording vs The New Standard. Bass and drums in TNS sound a bit heavy handed to me. A curiosity...I was struck by a similarity in the opening (and repeated) organ riff used in Track 2 of Transformation and that used in Bubblehouse from Medeski Martin & Wood's "Shack-man". Had wondered who borrowed from whom, but given Transformation apparently dates from 1994 and Shack-man from 1996, I'm guessing John Medeski was the "borrower". Imitation: the sincerest form of flattery, I suppose. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGWjkIm7JaU&ab_channel=fujentiDepending on draw back power for re-listening, Transformation might have to be a purchase. Thanks again. |
I suspect there’ll be a price to pay for voicing that particular form of critique, Mr. F. ;-) though I find it way more palatable than some of the outrageous non-music-related social commentary I saw posted over the last couple of days! I tried Kamasi Washington’s "Epic" a while ago. It’s HUGE...17 tracks and less than 7 minutes shy of 3 hours long! I was attracted by the album art to begin with. I wanted to like him...looked to be someone with a fresh vision. Or maybe just a retro-vision I could relate to. I can’t begin a credible technical assessment of his music skills and can only say, he didn’t hold me. I soldiered on through probably the first 2 discs. Certainly didn’t make it all the way to the end. The virtue of self-editing came to mind and lack thereof in this instance. I wondered what the producer was thinking - but maybe the length is part of the marketing. I won’t presume to rip the guy but "Why" is something else that kept coming to mind as the track time mounted up. Never did go back to listen again. Maybe I should. The Pitchfork Review: something of a counter to Frogman’s comments (not that I’m taking sides...really not) providing a little bit different perspective http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/20557-the-epic/Revisiting...I forgot about the Star Trek Singers. |
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Hello Mr. F-
Thanks for comments on Takin’ Off and that Pitchfork review. On the former (and prior to reading your comments) I went over to the current "Best Debut Album" thread and added that one to it. The more I listened last night the more it impressed me. On the latter, your comments about the "KW - The Epic" review are appropriate. While it’s likely a number of different reviewers covered the recordings you list, the "cultural context" the KW/Epic reviewer works in has to be suspected of influencing their "appreciation" of it.
To O and all...
I check out some of the links and recordings recommended here - certainly not every one. Even so, the content is overwhelming. How do the regulars here...Orpheus, Alex, Frogman, Acman & Rok LISTEN! to all of that stuff? Very often, just one of those albums is like a full Thanksgiving dinner with all the trimmings. It takes a long time to "eat". I don’t have the capacity to digest things that fast...I’m still listening to stuff listed here from months ago and now will be chewing on Takin’ Off. I personally can’t keep up (not that it is a competition or race - I get that) but for me, if nobody recorded one new thing ever again, there’d be plenty for me to last another couple of lifetimes.
Just felt I had to share :-)
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Gents - Thanks for your thoughtful replies to, what in retrospect, might have been a bit of a silly comment. I think Acman’s "maybe I have heard the language, and it comes more natural..." definitely has something to do with it. Y’all have been at this a lot longer and way deeper. I’m hearing many things for the first time so the level of concentration invested is automatically going to be greater.
O - I appreciate what you are saying about your buying practices, especially given your "style" preferences. But, if I read you right, that HH Takin’ Off seems like something you would be well served by owning. Also, I have enough old vinyl that I do appreciate what an upgrade (even if just a new cart or an interconnect) does for the listening experience. I get satisfaction holding a good sounding recording that was made 40-50 years ago. It’s like some kind of archeological find but still functional.
I’m not saying there’s no good stuff worth buying given my preferences BUT there’s mountains of the trad jazz I’ve never even heard. Even if only one recording out of ten really grabs me, it is still a TON of music. Mind boggling, really.
Here's something I meant to ask about the HH...
Does anyone else think there's something similar between "Cantaloupe Island" and "Watermelon Man"?
I haven't played them back to back but, in memory, when I heard that Watermelon Man it did remind me of Cantaloupe Island...and I don't think it was just the fact there are melons in the titles! I'm curious what you aficionados might think.
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Something "newish" (2004)... Bill Connors, "Return". BC being the original Return to Forever guitarist (before Al Di Meola)...or so I read. This is jazz that works for me; hoping others like it too (please don't tell me it's "smooth jazz"!). Picked this track because of the recent bassist discussion and the great piano work featured (and throughout this recording). The entire album seems very strong. Haven't read up on the participants other than the promo stuff about it being Connors' project and a bit of his history with Corea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-0osZs3hmY&ab_channel=BillConnors-TopicFrogman - I envy your music education. Thanks for the melon analysis. |
Appreciate the comments about the Bill Connors. To that by the ever-gracious and incisive Inna "...it’s Manhattan restaurant music.", I’ll add "and very well served, not to mention delicious." O - Glad you noted the piano. On a number of tracks, I was struck by the quality of solos on that instrument (Bill O’Connell the pianist as credited in the All About Jazz writeup). https://www.allaboutjazz.com/return-bill-connors-tone-center-review-by-john-kelman.phpFrogman - In line with your comments, I thought Connors was very generous with the space allowed his sidemen. O - About the introductory bass figure that Horace Silver enjoyed using, it’s not exactly the same thing BUT I think I hear something of a similar tendency in his Song for My Father. This one is of interest to me because as I only recently discovered (probably the last human on earth to learn about it) Fagen and Becker "borrowed" Silver’s intro virtually intact for "Rikki Don’t Lose that Number" (single from their Pretzel Logic album). On the off chance I wasn’t last, you might be amused to hear their use of it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQjNHzaxfQc&ab_channel=SteelyDan-TopicWant to say, in partial agreement with Inna...I don’t completely "get" Joe Zawinul. I like the first 2 Weather Report albums and admire his work as a sideman (e.g., on In a Silent Way), But later Weather Report? the more I listen to those various albums the shallower they seem to get. The Zawinul Syndicate video...mad mad percussion and rhythm talents but Z riffing over some chord changes doesn’t seem that wonderful to me. Maybe I didn’t listen into it for long enough. Apologies to any that are great fans of JZ, I do not wish to offend and don’t expect my O-pinion does anything to diminish his standing (nor would I want it to). Just expressing my "bewilderment" (too strong a word, really). OK - that’s my sermon for this Sunday. |
Thanks, Alex. I will check that out (revisit, actually). Pretty certain someone had posted that LP a little while back. Don't get my wrong...I'm not bashing Joe Zawinul as a musician, more like questioning his direction and "taste/style" later in his career. |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9MswAKmwvw&ab_channel=AndySummers-TopicWell known, well-covered Mingus piece composed while in a less volatile, more reflective mood, I suppose. Hope you enjoy this version. I did read from one his band members (can't recall who) that he'd get PO'd at someone and in live performance and without notice, change up the key a song had to be played in. Select the new key specifically to force some difficult and stressful mad scramble transposing (on top of the improvisation)! |
Sorry O - I'd missed the documentary link you posted when I was writing that 1:30PM post. No problem. Sometimes it's good to hear things in a wildly different context. |
O- thanks for the Quinitorigo version of GPH. They are new to me. Interesting arrangement. Quirky. For the record, the lyric is by Joni Mitchell (tho’ I expect you knew that). Acman - as per usual posting something of notable quality. Like the atmospherics. Is that Robbie Robertson doing the spoken part? More by way of Mingus "tribute"... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjkyON-g3qI&list=PLQ4IOTdzCC4cywUvFGbWDKBcWf8GLgndt&index=8&...pryso - Nothing against JB. I’ve enjoyed that track many times. Check out the Summers' GPH posted earlier if you have not already...a little less conventional and a little less flash, maybe. |
Always a pleasure (and privilege) to make introductions.
O - Debbie Harry was lead singer in Blondie. You might know them (unavoidably!) or otherwise from a bunch of top 10s they had back in the bad old '80s days of Studio 54 and the like. Her singing with them didn't lead me to expect something like Weird Nightmare.
pryso - JB and Summers both have something to offer. Of the two, Beck might be more firmly anchored in the blues. Check out Beck's "Performing This Week...Live at Ronnie Scott's", if you haven't already. Andy was guitarist in The Police but as good as some of his licks were playing with them, I pretty much prefer the solo stuff he's released in the years since they disbanded. Much more varied and interesting, I think.
Peggy's Blue Sky Light is a Summers' album of Mingus covers that contains Weird Nightmare with the Debbie Harry vocal. |
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More bass clarinet... @orpheus10 , you might enjoy the introductory solo on this track...the entire track, for that matter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktyb56qyK7w@frogman , I did check out Bennie Maupin's Penumbra. I like the atmospheric sonics (good percussion). Recording quality is superb...I expect that's part and parcel of the Cryptogramophone label. Musically it's a challenging listen...kinda sparse and abstract. Maybe not always angular and jarring like Dolphy can be, though no one would accuse Level Three (track 3) of being a commercial sellout. :-) I do have a feeling I'll be revisiting. Maybe it will open up. |
Huh...album of the month. No wonder Amazon has been recommending it. Great album cover art but the title track is a tough opening act...leastways was for me. O - I can’t give you a rating this soon. Takes a few listens to this "style" to find out if it draws me in or not. But definitely, a tough listen to start. Track 2 not so challenging. Very talented musicians. Sonics playing it from Tidal are superb. Interesting song choices...some Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Hendrix, The Band. I’m guessing you are not agreeing with that 4.5 star rating unless they meant 4.5 stars out of 100 :-) By the way, dropped in to leave the link below. The more I listen to this album the greater my appreciation of it. A gem, I think. Bought it. Now this one, I’d give an 8 out of 10. Here’s another great track from it (hopefully a different one than that posted previously). Check it out. Help you get some of that Hudson discord out of your mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUx6L5YiBXA&ab_channel=BillConnors-Topic |
F-man, I agree with you yet again...at least your comments about the quality of the musicians who recorded Hudson and the (advisability?) of "assuming merit". I’ll likely go back and give that one another go. ON THE OTHER HAND...the influence of John Medeski lies heavily on this work. While I greatly admire his talents and have listened to a good few of his other recordings (in MMW) and own Shack Man and Combustication, more often than not, as I’ve tried to follow him in other albums of his/theirs I just don’t enjoy going where he takes the music. A bit of dissonance can be a useful thing...kinda like a strong spice in a recipe. But at some point, you just gotta call "ugly" for what it is. Well, I do, anyway. I always appreciate your analysis and the insights you provide. Your comments about Hudson no exception. Time is short (and getting shorter!), though. There’s many others I’d rather spend it with (e.g., Bill Connors...interesting career path)....though I do find myself going back from time to time and knocking on that Medeski door to see if anything has changed.
Hey O - So long as you are vertical, there’s always time to "get right". It’ll give you hope for the future.
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I second your Sol Do Meio Dia Egberto Gismonti recommendation, Orpheus. A great musician lineup too as you point out. In the unlikely event you are not familiar with them, check out his work with Haden and Garbarek...namely Magico & Folk Songs. Dancas das Cabecas is also worth your (anyone’s) time. |
Good call on the soprano sax there O. After reading your post about Sol Do Meio Dia, I dug it out and put it on the turntable (I think I prefer Side 2 as well. Side 1 seems a little disjointed). I hadn't even recognized that as being soprano sax! Have said before I (usually) don't like soprano sax but I sure do like Garbarek's sound with it. Very full and sweet. |
Thanks for the encouragement, Frogman. Auden writes about young aspiring poets finding "mentors". There have been some for music in this thread. I hope to ever be the student, until the day we are no longer "vertical and ventilating".
Tim Garland is also featured in the Chick Corea/The Vigil "Planet Chia" clip I posted previously. Soprano sax in that. What great tone. |
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Hey Frogman - re Andrew Hill and your comment: "There were times when first listening to him that I just didn’t 'get' him and felt his playing was downright weird and unpolished; and other times it was pure genius." You mean like here? Well, for the first part of your statement, anyway... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b19AC0JC_jk&ab_channel=AustinCaseyReally know nothing about Mr. Hill so can't speak to "genius" but a few tracks from this recording have me very curious about the whole. I'm guessing that is Eric coming in right around the 3 minute mark followed by Joe Henderson. THIS ain't boring! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwWO8UYjmfI&ab_channel=Alife |
Thom Jurek (copied from Tidal but probably coming from the All Music Guide) writing about Andrew Hill's "Point of Departure"... "Pianist and composer Andrew Hill is perhaps known more for this date than any other in his catalogue -- and with good reason. Hill's complex compositions straddled many lines in the early to mid-1960s and crossed over many. Point of Departure, with its all-star lineup (even then), took jazz and wrote a new book on it, excluding nothing. With Eric Dolphy and Joe Henderson on saxophones (Dolphy also played clarinet, bass clarinet, and flute), Richard Davis on bass, Tony Williams on drums, and Kenny Dorham on trumpet, this was a cast created for a jazz fire dance. From the opening moments of "Refuge," with its complex minor mode intro that moves headlong via Hill's large, open chords that flat sevenths, ninths, and even 11ths in their striding to move through the mode, into a wellspring of angular hard bop and minor-key blues. Hill's solo is first and it cooks along in the upper middle register, almost all right hand ministrations, creating with his left a virtual counterpoint for Davis and a skittering wash of notes for Williams. The horn solos in are all from the hard bop book, but Dolphy cuts his close to the bone with an edgy tone. "New Monastery," which some mistake for an avant-garde tune, is actually a rewrite of bop minimalism extended by a diminished minor mode and an intervallic sequence that, while clipped, moves very quickly. Dorham solos to connect the dots of the knotty frontline melody and, in his wake, leaves the space open for Dolphy, who blows edgy, blue, and true into the center, as Hill jumps to create a maelstrom by vamping with augmented and suspended chords. Hill chills it out with gorgeous legato phrasing and a left-hand ostinato that cuts through the murk in the harmony. When Henderson takes his break, he just glides into the chromatically elegant space created by Hill, and it's suddenly a new tune. This disc is full of moments like this. In Hill's compositional world, everything is up for grabs. It just has to be taken a piece at a time, and not by leaving your fingerprints all over everything. In "Dedication," where he takes the piano solo further out melodically than on the rest of the album combined, he does so gradually. You cannot remember his starting point, only that there has been a transformation. This is a stellar date, essential for any representative jazz collection, and a record that, in the 21st century, still points the way to the future for jazz." |
See F-man, it don't have to be all Bill Connors melodious and smooth for me. We likes a little "grit" now and again. BTW - I TOTALLY get what you are saying about that Andrew Hill performance. His stretching of meter is almost painful and borders on (me thinking) he forgot where he is going!
I got lucky and stumbled onto that PoD recording only because I saw it in the margins on YouTube and the cover image reminded me of that formation on Mars that looks like a human face. Listened to a bit of it and knew right away it was working for me. Stuff I read about it confirmed to me it is something special. Listened to the whole thing. Dolphy by himself or as leader is still a tough listen for me but in an "ensemble" like that...works great. Nice contrast to Joe Henderson's style. Bought the RVG remaster. $11 bucks Amazon prime. A bargain.
I also have to say I could HEAR exactly what you report about the East Coast vs West Coast jazz styles when I listened to some of the samples that O had posted a few weeks back. Not that I had the vocabulary to describe any of it. Those were the first times I knowingly listened to such. Think O had put up some Brubeck and definitely some (Gerry?) Mulligan. Honestly, I could hear that style difference compared to hard bop and had similar thoughts (about white cultural influence, cerebral, less gritty etc., etc., etc.) without even knowing any of the actual history. Ain't bragging...just think it is THAT obvious. Well, leastways in that stuff I heard. |
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@alexatpos
Thanks so much for the link to those photos. I really enjoyed them. Thinking Gottlieb's jazz photos must be published in a book (or two!) somewhere. Worth owning, I think. Something about black and white is, for me, way more better than color. Everyone of those told a story.
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