Jazz for aficionados

Thank you Frogman for adding equanimity to our recent posts. (mental calmness, composure, and evenness of temper, especially in a difficult situation.) "she accepted both the good and the bad with equanimity"

Alex, my review of the records you posted is coming; I just haven't had a chance to give them a critical listen. Although I'm usually familiar with the artists, those particular records are new to me, and occasionally, so is the artist.

Keep em coming

Rok, those tunes go together like beans and cornbread. (that's a southern reference in case you don't get it)

You're at the top of your game today, and when those tunes came out I was at the top of my game.

Keep em coming.

Rok, and Frogman, someone asked her "What is the sound of red?" and her answer was a Zen kind of answer; like, what is the sound of one hand clapping.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrWs--Ay62U

Lizz Wrights song "Stop", has attached itself to me;


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll_G4QFYVhA

I stated that I couldn't find any new music, but maybe I was wrong. Ahmad Jamal's music requires that you "listen", not just put the album on while you're thinking about something else, and "Marseille" is just such an album.

This is what "All About Jazz" had to say;

It's well-known that Miles Davis was a fan of Jamal's and admitted to being influenced by the pianist. Miles and Jamal became friends in the 1950s and Davis recorded Jamal's "Ahmad's Blues" on Workin' and "New Rhumba" on Miles Ahead. So on one level, it's not too surprising that on "Sometimes I Feel Like A Motherless Child" Jamal includes a funky quote from Davis's "Jean Pierre" from We Want Miles, released in 1982. But on another level the inclusion of this vamp, which bookends the track, demonstrates how versatile is Jamal's approach, and how a standard can be completely transformed so seamlessly, it has been released on CD and double vinyl.

I highly recommend this album.

Irony of ironies Mary_jo; I don't guess you knew that you posted one of Rok's most favorite tunes?  Compared to What.

I never said her rough life helped her. I posted how she was regarded at 14 by the establishment.

Miles sister lived in Chicago, and he visited her during the Christmas Holidays, while Ahmad was there at the Pershing lounge, plus Chicago was Ahmad's home base. I saw him in Chicago.

I don't think they ever played together, but I'm almost certain they met informally.

I saw Ahmad in Chicago in the late 80's, and his drummer Frank Gant told me they had tickets to Japan, and that they could not make a living without Japan, and Europe. At that time, I didn't know this was so.


"Marseille", the title track is afforded three different versions, the first being a mesmeric modally-inspired instrumental foray. The title is also a paean to a country that has enthusiastically supported Jamal throughout his long career culminating in the French government awarding him the prestigious Chevalier De L'Ordre Des Arts Et De Lettres in 2007. The album itself was recorded in Malakoff, a suburb on the outskirts of Paris.

Evidently he's still enjoying France and Europe.

St. Louis was an exciting city in the Summers of the 70's; there were a lot of outdoor cafes where tennis attire was quite acceptable, no need to dress for the night life; the outdoor audio was good too.

Here's music that captured the mood;


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS463tbX-HE&list=PLmurAzSrFpoKwRDk53eSsgNAN4ShWWhCW&index=3


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-ibK5L2a4I


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l60FfC9zdDI

Rok, we're both guilty in regard to how we accepted her voice; I pointed out to you the years to avoid because her voice had gone bad, and they had pretty pictures and CD to cover it up.

Here's something that sounds interesting: "Classic Savoy Be-Bop Sessions". Before I go through this, I need to know is anyone really interested in Be-Bop?

"Bird" seems to be the one who turns me on the most, and I've got him. They claim the sound improvements are enough to get this set.

Get back to me on this.

This COVID-19 is doing it's best to keep me in the present, but it will not succeed; all these people with masks looking like doctors and nurses who hastily left the operating room to go shopping; that's the new reality, but I can, and I will escape it.

Once I get back to my listening room, and fire up the rig, (my time machine) I can go anywhere I want to. At this time, I choose to hit the tennis courts in the 70's. While some young ladies choose formal tennis attire, bad girls prefer cut off blue jeans, and I've always liked denim.

The music that fits the spirit of these times is "Summer Madness", and I was on the hottest tennis courts in town; we even had night lights; no need to slowdown when the sun went down; sometime things heated up even more under those bright night lights.


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGDqUtVOWxg


         

Frogman, I would speculate that goes for everyone on this thread, but lately we seem to be able to get better recording quality.

The CD's of the 100 best recordings of the 50's sound better than some of my records; it's a mixed bag, but I would venture to say that we all side with you because it's better than no record at all.

No Rok, I didn't realize it cost $180. I bought records from Mosaic before they became so expensive. The problem with Mosaic is always the same; too much, first and second takes, plus stuff they could have left in the vault; but for the connoisseur, there can never be too much of his favorite artist.

Glad you brought that to my attention.

This morning's spotlight is on "Gene Harris"; best known as the original leader of "The 3 Sounds".

Wikipedia

Gene Harris (September 1, 1933 in Benton Harbor, Michigan – January 16, 2000 in Boise, Idaho) was an American jazz pianist known for his warm sound and blues and gospel infused style that is known as soul jazz. (Disregard "Soul jazz") We don't need no stinkin labels.

From 1956 to 1970, he played in The Three Sounds trio with bassist Andy Simpkins and drummer Bill Dowdy. During this time, The Three Sounds recorded regularly for Blue Note and Verve.

Once his touch was added to familiar tunes, that made them special.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0RCdSKogeI


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyNL4T7JBpg


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfNIVdnz1FQ


         

When I was buying "Mosaic", I had more expendable cash; it's an entirely different story now.

I know I promised a review of "Marseille" by Ahmad, but three versions of the same tune is a little bit much. I'm going back to what I stated previously, and stick to "Old" New music, if you can understand that.

Now it's time for me to give my take on what Alex submitted.

I've never heard of Don Sleet; he's a good musician, but the music was "Mundane" except for the bass on "Brooklyn Bridge"; the rest of the music was good, but not impresssive.

Alex, don't let this slow down your submissions.

Rok, I consider things of that nature to be very important, and as the OP I would also appreciate the specific reason for the deletion.

Acman, I have "flip-floped" on that record; which is a good record, but I object to 3 versions of the same thing, one of which is not music, but spoken French, which I don't understand.

There is so much "good" music on that record, which is hard to find, that I could "flip-flop" once again, and agree with you.

Mary-jo, that may be the case where you are, but it could be different somewhere else.

Some people live in places that were designed to transmit COVID-19; low income housing for example, and if you live in a penthouse in New York, there is a good chance you will come in close proximity to one of those persons.

Mary-jo, since you've joined our gathering, we have a lot more activity, and I like that.

Frogman, Nina Simone sings about some of the island deities; Dambalah is one of them. Those Gods from Africa survived in the Caribbean, but not in "America". (decline the controversy)


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pDwH-S0KoU


Sea Lion Woman -----  See Line Woman lacks logic for a title, so does C line Woman.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVEbzdN_7n0



The best of Billie Holiday settles all disputes, because that collection leaves the worst of Billie Holiday out.


                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRYFRvOUrvI&list=RDfRYFRvOUrvI&t=849

Not only is her voice superb, but so is the music; it captures the time of the music,  which is also reflected in Billie's dress; that was a time when big night clubs were flourishing.

Rok, you make some of the 'dog- gonest' statements; how can Wynton Marsalis have any thing to do with the future of jazz, when everything he does is in the past? Is the future of jazz in the past?

Explain where doom and gloom come in? I'm waiting.

Frogman, my sources of the religions from Africa were books that were hundreds of years old, written by "slave traders". They were intelligent, but not highly educated; words were spelled "phonetically"; for example, Ama De Bella became Mama De Bella, because that's what it sounded like to the slave trader who did business with King Ama De Bella in Nigeria.

The sources you pointed to, said slaves came from West Africa, when the reality is West Africans sold slaves; which is a fact they are now running from.

There was a movie "The Comedians" starring Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor that was based on a lot of facts about "Haitian Voodoo", which was filmed in "Dahomey", the home of Voodoo. Your sources give Nigeria as the home of Voodoo; although Nigeria was the Wall Street of the slave trade. They are all running from the facts now; so much so that a lot of books have disappeared.

My interest was not so much in the slave trade, but the different drum rhythms from Cuba, Haiti, different Caribbean Islands and Bahia.


                https://www.google.com/search?q=bahia&oq=bahia&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.10395j0j8&sourceid=...


African rhythms in Brazil come from Bahia.

Quite sometime ago, I would have been on the verge of losing my mind living under "lockdown", but it's not so bad now. That's because I close my eyes, listen to the music and take cosmic trips. BTW, I don't listen exclusively to jazz.

Pryso, that was one of Mingus's best. All of his albums were so original that you always thought, "There is no way that he's going to ever top that", but he still managed to come up with something better the next time.

Acman, if you're out there, could you post 3 of your favorite cuts from "Marseille", without including the title cut?

Like all the best jazz music, you are required to really listen.

In case you're wondering why I don't do this myself, I'm in bed under the weather.

Joe Henderson, Page One has been given very high reviews. After listening, I noted that all the artists contributed masterfully; including the one who is not listed.

What one considers the ultimate in music depends on more factors than even the person doing the consideration is aware of.

This is the music I consider to be the ultimate today;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YsC32xLnkY


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch6JoHv3AqU


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wifGc8dMz6Q

I am fascinated to the point of being obsessed by "drum rhythms". I have traced them from Africa to Brazil and the Caribbean. We can divide the Caribbean into Cuba, Haiti, The Dominican Republic, and all of the smaller islands in the Caribbean. The singular most unique thing about these African rhythms, is the fact that they got lost in the U. S. of A. I don't hear any African rhythms emanating from here, maybe someone else does, but I don't.

Of course we can incorporate anything we want to in jazz, but I'm speaking of what was originally in "modern jazz"; that's jazz from the 50's to the present; it was "influenced" by Charley "Bird" Parker, more than any other single individual. Of course there were others, and they will tell you the same thing; he was the "High Priest".

"Le Liasons Dangerous"     Recorded in 59.

Bass – Jimmy Merritt*
Bongos – John Rodriguez* (tracks: 2 to 10)
Congas – Tommy Lopez (tracks: 2 to 10), William Rodriguez* (tracks: 2 to 10)
Drums – Art Blakey
Piano – Bobby Timmons, Duke Jordan (tracks: 3)
Soprano Saxophone, Tenor Saxophone – Barney Wilen (tracks: 1, 3 to 9)
Trumpet – Lee Morgan


  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw_8i22pBcs&list=PLUJ7V33M1wR0kn82R1Xp6WwvZ47aK-2BP


This music is typical of "Hard Bop", if there is anything typical about any Hard-Bop. These artists are uniquely gifted; I'm saying that going to school and practicing won't get you there, either you got it or you don't.

This music began as "African American" music from our great cities, that aren't so great anymore. Whereas I can hear something "African" in the music from Cuba, Brazil, and the Islands, I don't hear that from American jazz. Why this is so, or not so, could be debated until the next millennium, but the reality would remain the same.

I hear Chicago, I hear New York, I hear Detroit, and the rest of our cities that were great places to live, love, and create; that's where this music began.


In addition, I'm going to add some of my favorites, and in this music I'm celebrating "Pepper Adams". Although he's not the leader, he's one of the other individuals who make this music great.


 
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_0wBTUvM6M


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__OSyznVDOY


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo0P2YugUnU


Enjoy this music.

I am fascinated to the point of being obsessed by "drum rhythms". I have traced them from Africa to Brazil and the Caribbean. We can divide the Caribbean into Cuba, Haiti, The Dominican Republic, and all of the smaller islands in the Caribbean. The singular most unique thing about these African rhythms, is the fact that they got lost in the U. S. of A. I don't hear any African rhythms emanating from here, maybe someone else does, but I don't.

Of course we can incorporate anything we want to in jazz, but I'm speaking of what was originally in "modern jazz"; that's jazz from the 50's to the present; it was "influenced" by Charley "Bird" Parker, more than any other single individual. Of course there were others, and they will tell you the same thing; he was the "High Priest".

"Le Liasons Dangerous"     Recorded in 59.

Bass – Jimmy Merritt*
Bongos – John Rodriguez* (tracks: 2 to 10)
Congas – Tommy Lopez (tracks: 2 to 10), William Rodriguez* (tracks: 2 to 10)
Drums – Art Blakey
Piano – Bobby Timmons, Duke Jordan (tracks: 3)
Soprano Saxophone, Tenor Saxophone – Barney Wilen (tracks: 1, 3 to 9)
Trumpet – Lee Morgan


  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw_8i22pBcs&list=PLUJ7V33M1wR0kn82R1Xp6WwvZ47aK-2BP


This music is typical of "Hard Bop", if there is anything typical about any Hard-Bop. These artists are uniquely gifted; I'm saying that going to school and practicing won't get you there, either you got it or you don't.

This music began as "African American" music from our great cities, that aren't so great anymore. Whereas I can hear something "African" in the music from Cuba, Brazil, and the Islands, I don't hear that from American jazz. Why this is so, or not so, could be debated until the next millennium, but the reality would remain the same.

I hear Chicago, I hear New York, I hear Detroit, and the rest of our cities that were great places to live, love, and create; that's where this music began.


In addition, I'm going to add some of my favorites, and in this music I'm celebrating "Pepper Adams". Although he's not the leader, he's one of the other individuals who make this music great.


 
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_0wBTUvM6M


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__OSyznVDOY


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo0P2YugUnU


Enjoy this music.

Another interesting instrument is the Barimbau;


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uuSaOZg8hI


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4miRO1NMaP4


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1beIgX7Vdg&list=RDP1beIgX7Vdg&start_radio=1

Tarzan! What do the drums say?

Tarzan! What do they say now?

They said, don't forget the Alka Seltzer.

Mary_jo, since you're new and learning about jazz, I'll quit the jokes.

In all my many years of life, no one has ever told me I was beautiful. When I look in the mirror, I realize it's rapidly fading; but on the other hand, if a man told me I was "beautiful", I would be most suspicious. "Get real", men are handsome and women are beautiful.

Rok, we've been down this avenue before, they complain about the sociologist and the historian, so we give them the floor; now where are they?

Mary-jo has no complaints, so we're going to carry on. I'm going to begin with one of my favorite damsels, Anna Maria Jopek.


              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iSiPjbS8_Q

I posted straight up "Hard Bop" jazz tunes yesterday, at 11:35 AM, and nobody commented, but they had something to say about "sociologists and historians", plus Schubert had a comment about New York in 1880 that I'm still trying to get a grip on. Now I remember, it was very violent; that was the relevance.

These are the 4 "Hard-Bop" tunes I posted yesterday, maybe somebody can comment on them today. Although Blakey recorded in 59, this is the first time I heard it, and I already bought it.


None of these are exotic with an African drum beat.

         

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw_8i22pBcs&list=PLUJ7V33M1wR0kn82R1Xp6WwvZ47aK-2BP


 
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_0wBTUvM6M


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__OSyznVDOY


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo0P2YugUnU


Enjoy this music.

Frogman, you can keep your food for thought; I was speaking of thje cuts I presented that were not commented on.

The last 3 cut had "Pepper Adams" in common. Those of us who heard the music heard Pepper Adams.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyOlc8BaR0A


This is Pepper Adams for sure.

Sloryder, judging from your post, I sincerely hope that you'll be with us, and post on a regular basis.

I have all of the artists, (except Allan Holdsworth) and most of the albums you posted in my collection.

I'm looking forward to your next post.

Frogman, you didn't even read the post, and you still haven't read it, or if you did, you didn't understand it.

The post was about how significant Pepper Adams contributions were, which is part of why Rok said they were better than the originals.

You still didn't hear what I was specifically speaking of.

Rok, I know Wynton is your main man, but Africa in "hard-bop" is truly rediculous. That's where the trolly jumped the tracks; he might as well said that African Americans are speaking in "Ojibway" or some tribal language without knowing it.

Because I can't hear African in the jazz drums doesn't mean it's not there. The drumer doesn't know he's putting out some African beats because they're in code.


Rok, this is Frogmans paragraph, could you translate it for me?

"First, the fact that any one listener cannot “hear” African rhythms as the listener knows and understands them in jazz does not mean that those rhythms are not there; or, at least, serve as the foundation for those jazz rhythms as they are understood. It is like insisting that European based chord progressions and harmony do not exist in the music because the listener cannot hear them as such."

Call this the 'hard-bop' African drum code.

While Paul Desmond's "Taste Of Honey" is so sublime that I must have it, I don't think it captures the intended spirit of the tune. I think the spirit of the tune should be seductive, like Woody Herman's; one can not stop with just one taste of that honey, it always calls for just one more taste of honey.

Rok, I want you to know that I agree with your post in it's entirety.

First and foremost, I knew personally, professional musicians who played "Hard-Bop", and they would have laughed at you, coming up with this African crap.  Like they were playing it but didn't even know it.  

Yes, he is the most important man in jazz, but since "Mr. Cholly" determines that...... but "Mr. Cholly" determines everything.

Alex, I've purchased some of the albums you posted, and nothing can affirm more of what one aficionado thinks about another aficionado's taste, than the purchase of an album he either recommends or posts.

Keep those posts coming.

Frogman, you're wrong right off the bat; first all, there is no one "African rhythm", there are more different African rhythms than you can shake a stick at, some of them are in Brazil, but no longer in Africa.

You have to know something about slavery in order to know about African drumming; that's because Africa is a continent, and not a country. Before slavery, there were villages and tribes, not countries. The drummers were primarily for the different dances they did in the villages after supper. If you recall "Roots", Kunta Kente spoke of the "village" he was from, not the country.


According to Roots, Kunta Kinte was born circa 1750 in the Mandinka village of Juffure, in the Gambia. One day in 1767, while Kunta was searching for wood to make a drum for his younger brother, four men chased him, surrounded him, and took him captive.
Kunta Kinte - Wikipedia


There is dance that goes with the drumming from that village; it is still done today.


There were countless villages that left Africa on that long boat ride to "The Americas". Some villages were transported to "The Americas", and what ever existed in them, no longer resides in Africa; but can be found in "Bahia" in Brazil.


"Capoeira" rhythms in Brazil are most fascinating; check out "Zum Zum Zum";


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkZPiZ59lME


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H0D8VaIli0


Frogman, you present the most erroneous stuff in such a positive fashion that I almost believe it.

After your response, we should get back to what this thread was intended to be about; which means that I'll only respond if it's something a "jazz aficionado" can use.

Frogman, although we have our disagreements, that doesn't diminish how important you are to this thread, and I never forget it.

Mary_jo, this thread was began for people like yourself, who are trying to build their jazz collections. We have a new "aficionado" who has just posted some of the most important artists and albums in jazz. If you go to "you tube" and check some of those, you will discover what artist you favor the most, or which album you like the best, and we can advise you on what to purchase.


Looking to hear from you.

It was 1968, that was the year the Sun died;


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpR8UrMQvnU


I was dining at a cafe all alone, and Shirley Bassey sang;


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JSi3i_1lZQ


but it was too late, she was already gone; that didn't stop me from wishing she would sing to me that song.


   

Pryso, I'm glad you backtracked, my mistake that Pepper Adams was not on the "Moanin" cut, I thought he was.

That post was meant to illustrate what a fantastic sideman he was. He was with Mingus, on one, Donald Bird, on another, plus Lee Morgan on a third; the cat could jam. Rok thought that was the best "Night In Tunisia" he had ever heard. Depending on the time of day, the humidity and the temperature, I agree with him. My opinion of who is best on what, changes like that; it's because I listen to so many cats who can really jam. Just think of all the fantastic versions of that jam you have listened to and enjoyed.

I could go on about Pepper Adams, but I think I made my point.

While I would still choose Pepper Adams by a horse hair, Ronnie Cuber was excellent; a close second to Pepper Adams. A lot depends on the first version of a tune the individual has listened to.




That Gerry Mulligan was a fantastic example of "West Coast Jazz"; it's almost like he defines the genre, the mood; LA on a misty night. "Pacific Jazz Records"; when I read that label, I know I can sit back relax, and listen to some fine examples of "West Coast Jazz".

Gerry Mulligan - Reunion With Chet Baker is a slightly different version of West Coast Jazz, that is also exemplified by Jimmy Giuffre; here's Jimmy.


              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCVg1UOADO8&list=RDOCVg1UOADO8

I hope I've commented sufficiently on all your posts.