Jazz for aficionados

Two minutes ago anything other than jazz music was off subject when me and Rok were having a discussion, now anything goes.

Rok, I think you should see Michael Moore's movie where he tells how good he lived as a child on the salary his father earned working in a factory.

Do you remember when the manipulated price of gasoline was $4.00 a gallon; what do you think that did to the lower middle class, and who do you think raked off the "manipulated profits" in the commodity markets; have you ever heard of Mann Financial, can you say "Oligarch".

Who rakes in the manipulated prices of prescription drugs, that people on a fixed income have to pay. That welfare crap is just something to make poor southerners feel wealthy and superior.

Frogman, I just found a new copy of "Desmond Blue", including cover, in my collection, and I thought I only had an old copy; the Saints are looking down and smiling on me today. Not only that, but I'm in the process of down loading vinyl. You gave me good luck.


Enjoy the music.

Rok, I don't begrudge the good life you have lived thanks to "Sam", and the good life you're living now. You didn't even have to make a dental appointment, you were called when it was time.

All those years, as well as these years prevented you from seeing how reality is manipulated, and I understand that. Once upon a time, I believed most of the things you still believe. I bet you even remember "Blackhawk" comic books. Many things you say I use to believe, and wish they were still true; especially "Justice and The American Way", but it's no longer true, and it's a falsehood that's not easily discovered.

Rok, personally I don't play that "Liberal", "Conservative" game; is the guy honest or dishonest. If the conservatives are my supposed enemies, I would much prefer an honest conservative to a dishonest Liberal; that name tag game is foolish.

Those men worked in factories in order to send their kids to college, so that they would not have to work in factories;Time magazine named Moore one of the world's 100 most influential people.

Sounds like Mike's old man knew what he was doing.

The people who ripped off this entire country didn't even smell the gas that went into their fleets of automobiles; they used servants for that, and even had a special one for the "Rolls".

They were the people who paid for the government you think you elected. Those people told the politicians (they paid for) to tell the CFTC to look the other way while this country got "fleeced", and you kept a sharp eye on "Welfare cheats".

Rok, lets say the guy in Texas sells his gas to the Mercantile Exchange for $1.50 a gallon. The gas stations then buy this gas and charge $2.00 which is the cost of handling and profit; but the gas I'm talking about changed hands a time or two, between the front door and the back door, and left Mercantile costing $3.50. a gallon, and everybody paid $4.00 a gallon; what happened to the $1.50 that gas went up in price between the front door and the back door?

The same thing happened to all the commodities that went through those exchanges during that period of time; that includes everything we purchase to live. It cost the average family $200. dollars more a month to live; that included you. $200. dollars a month is a lot, or nothing a month depending on your income, but almost everybody paid it because nobody can live without food and gas.

When you multiply $200. dollars a month times every family in this country during that period of time, it comes to quite a bundle. Now you can see how "oligarchs" live so well, but you kept your eye on them "welfare cheats"; that should have saved a bundle when you reported them.  

Now I'm back to the music, and I promise that I'll review all music that has been submitted, which is quite a backlog.

In this months issue of "Stereophile";


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFDFwgo0__Q&list=PL0q2VleZJVEmivAkLxBNwNAb0IfDU6vE7


I haven't listened to it yet; we can review it together and make a comment after.


     

"The Penguin Guide To Jazz" numbers "Destiny's Dance" among the core collection which jazz fans should possess; and I thought I had them all. Better late than never.

Chico Freeman - tenor saxophone, bass clarinet

Wynton Marsalis - trumpet (tracks 1, 3, 4 & 6)

Bobby Hutcherson - vibraphone

Dennis Moorman - piano (tracks 1, 4 & 6)

Cecil McBee - bass

Ronnie Burrage - drums

Paulinho Da Costa - percussion (track 4


These are the tracks;
"Destiny's Dance" - 4:11
"Same Shame" - 5:37
"Crossing the Sudan" - 5:46
"Wilpan's Walk" - 9:18
"Embracing Oneness" - 6:59
"C & M"


Although this was recorded in 1981, it could have been recorded yesterday. The reason I'm posting it again is to point out how outstanding an album it is.

"Wilpan's Walk" is too tough, Bobby Hutcherson kills the vibes, and that guy on trumpet is not at all shabby, he's blowing his tail off on this one. When you are listening and looking at who is blowing at the same time, that gives added depth to the music. Dennis Moorman on piano is new to me. Paulinho Da Costa on percussion is all over the place in my collection, but Ronnie Burrage on drums is unfamiliar.


  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRih07ksHDE




Here is another one of Chico Freeman's tunes that gets repeated play in my collection. I'm still going through posts for outstanding music to make sure I don't overlook yours


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buFUP2LvK2s


Enjoy the music.

Last but not least, (actually it may or may not be least, I never heard of the guy, "Harish Raghavan"; "Calls For Action";)


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyrQZZg2S94


This concludes jazz in Stereophile.

This by Charles Lloyd "8 Kindred Spirits" also appears in this months magazine;


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqqnOjzv-zA

Rok, welcome to "corporatocracy"; there is no right or left, only greed and money.

Frogman, I am positive you could put that in the "Guinness World Book of Records"; the only "jazz musician" who has ever been involved in probably 30 plus performances of Bolero over the years.

I don't believe Wynton Marsalis could even come close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24XaKqEeGk4

That was spring of 77; Albert must have had some big paydays, somebody see what he was doing at that time.

The place was crowded and I didn't talk to him.

Rok, if you're a "jazz aficionado", as we are, how could he appeal to you if you never saw him entertain live. I most certainly was not impressed by the tickets; after all Sammy does not play the drums, he does not blow tenor, nor does he blow trumpet; he sings in a fashion that doesn't quite reach me, the only thing I have is him as "Sporting Life" in Porgy.

When my wife told me she had tickets for us to see Gladys Knight, without the Pips, I was not the least bit impressed that time either, because I had not seen her rated in the Downbeat Polls as doing anything in jazz. It was only when I saw the magic she possessed as an entertainer, was I impressed. It's not by accident those people are big stars.

Rok, they don't earn big bucks because of the way they look; they got "magic", and unless you see them, (or saw them) in the case of Sammy, you would not believe what I just stated; therefore I understand. But if you had seen him perform live, and said he didn't appeal to you, I would say you need a check up.


Enjoy the music.

   
I saw this on "you tube" and it brought me back to the time I saw "Sammy".

I had never been a fan of "Sammy", like being a fan of "Bird", or Miles, or any of the other jazz musicians. My fiance bought some tickets, and told me we were going to see "Sammy Davis Jr." "He ain't Trane, but I've never seen him before", were my thoughts.


There are no words that can describe "Sammy Davis Jr."; he had a packed auditorium of people spellbound from the time he came on stage until the end. He put on a performance like I've never seen before nor since; after that, I understood why so many people go "Ga Ga" over "Sammy Davis Jr."

     
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkDu2onYeyk


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkDu2onYeyk







Enjoy the music.

welcome back;


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3BzAKHCEvo

I saw this on "you tube" and it brought me back to the time I saw "Sammy".

I had never been a fan of "Sammy", like being a fan of "Bird", or Miles, or any of the other jazz musicians. My fiance bought some tickets, and told me we were going to see "Sammy Davis Jr." "He ain't Trane, but I've never seen him before", were my thoughts.


There are no words that can describe "Sammy Davis Jr."; he had a packed auditorium of people spellbound from the time he came on stage until the end. He put on a performance like I've never seen before nor since; after that, I understood why so many people go "Ga Ga" over "Sammy Davis Jr."

     
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkDu2onYeyk







Enjoy the music.

Modern jazz is a style of jazz characterized by fast tempo, instrumental virtuosity, and improvisation based on the combination of harmonic structure and melody. This style of jazz ultimately became synonymous with bebop, as either category reached a certain final maturity in the 1960's.

I put that definition up there for others; while my definition is quite similar, it is unwavering. Anybody who doesn't like my definition can find another one, or write their own.

This definition indicates a style of jazz synonymous with "Be Bop"; that's what "Bird" invented with a little help from some friends. For the true connoisseurs of "Be Bop", "Birds" Bop is the only "Bop" that has withstood the test of time; his Bop sounds like music played at a fast pace, while others sounds like a lot of notes played real fast, and people accepted it as Bop.

In the formal definition, it states that "modern Jazz" reached it's maturity in the 60's, and that's "Koshure" with me. It doesn't have a cutoff date, like January 7, 1964, but I hope you get my drift. If you are a seasoned "aficionado", I'm sure you do.

Hopefully this post will cut down on a lot of confusion, but for some, everything adds confusion; consequently we will have to let them remain in their perpetual state of confusion.


After "modern jazz" reached it's final maturity, what followed was "Yankee Doodle stuck a feather in his hat, and called it macaroni". I figure it's good enough that we can almost define one segment of jazz, without defining all abstract music.

Presently I'm down loading my vinyl to the computer library, which is something that pays great dividends after a significant analog upgrade in the front end. The most welcome surprise is all the "brand new" old records; evidently, when I saw a new record of one of my favorite worn records, I bought it. This must have occurred when we changed from LP to CD, because for ages I didn't even have a cartridge, and therefore played no LP's. For the record, this stuff in no way compares to analog back in the day, when a BIC turntable and top of the line "Shure" or "Empire" cartridge was hot stuff.

I'm going to share with you what I just down loaded; "Bobby Hutcherson, San Francisco featuring Harold Land".


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgXmbhkWkwk


This tune is representative of the entire album, it's a real winner;


Enjoy the music.

Lou Rawls seems like an old friend because he sings about the Chicago I knew as a teenager; girls, girls, and more girls, pretty girls up and down that long Walgreen soda fountain counter.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGuwgHIHnZY


There are so many songs I like by Lew, that I can't think of a favorite, but I like this one a lot;



          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hqcKul3cnk


I can't think of any other vocalist I like better, but I'm trying. For me, it seems that memories have to be attached to vocals, unlike instrumentals, that I can evaluate immediately.

Oscar Brown is well represented in my collection with a lot of appropriate memories.

I liked Kurt Elling scatting on "Nature Boy", plus that was a driving arrangement; "Did the drummer get too much"? I'll have to get that. What do you think about him and Rachelle Ferrell on the same show?


Enjoy the music.

These are more to my taste;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0L5RFspwyE&list=PLMhEO-BZNPqSKOPI0hV6WR_3j1BvmyoUD


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZpXPwmbQvc

It's for sure that "Lou" was our favorite male vocalist; I had gotten so use to his voice that it seemed like an old friend was singing to me, plus I could relate to the songs he sang; "Street of Dreams", is one of them.

This place was my last "hangout"; that's when your nights for hanging are coming to an end, and the other folks in the joint were in the same boat with me; they knew that the good times for enjoying the night life would soon be over, but it was on the street of dreams.


                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kw6khrGLr4


 


Well folks, I'm having fun doing my thing this morning, which is choosing records to down load to the PC library. Yesterday it was "The Man With The Sad Face" by Stanley T; I thought it was pretty good. If I find it on "you tube", I'll post it for your approval.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzpe5XD-RMg


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzBEvR7wa-0


This might be one you can add to your collection if you like it. "You Tube" is a life saver; no longer is it necessary to be disappointed if you can't find current jazz you like, that's because there is more good "old jazz" than you got time to hear that you haven't heard before.


Enjoy the music.

That was certainly not Stanley's best, but it had a few good cuts, and once I'm through down loading, the TT goes back in "mothballs"; no more vinyl, only what's in the PC Library.

As far as the title; there was a "love and lost" quality to the music, which could result in a sad face, but at the same time the music was reminiscing about the kind of love that comes once in a lifetime, and can never be forgotten; the kind of love Carly Simon sings about.


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0wta3xkqJo&list=PLhdtRc6oo2tH-CLPL8onHcKSeGAsxFxuU


Stanley had a long and very productive career, and there were later dramatic changes in his life that was reflected in his music, but it wasn't nearly as "disco" influenced, as Benson's music.

I think the music on this album reflected the title, and how he was feeling at that time; no one is perpetually "upbeat".


Enjoy the music.

Rok, I thank you for your review of Stereophile's recommended music.

Your assessment of Phineas Newborn concurred with other experts.

The fact that Charles Lloyd is still performing is the 8th wonder of the jazz world; I forgot what the other 7 were. (memory is not as good as it used to be)



Gene Harris & Roger Kellaway - Senor Blues is absolutely fantastic; I don't know why I don't have it; that will get corrected.


Keep the music coming.

Rok, you're stretching my order list; I had forgotten just how good Maynard Ferguson really was.

In regard to Wynton we are saying the same thing in between the lines.


In regard to jazz, "subjectivity" is always a factor.


Gene Harris grew into a national treasure, and nobody told me;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfNIVdnz1FQ


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odkIpuRKkko



Enjoy the music.

Quotes on Wynton Marsalis are the most misunderstood in the world because they always come out as Wynton can't blow the trumpet. No one, not even Miles ever said that; what they said was; when you give Wynton a blank sheet of paper, he can't put some jazz on it, but he can blow the notes off any piece of paper with some jazz already on it; that's a big difference.  While they never used those exact words, that's what they meant.

The music on "Nigerian Market Place" has such a different mood than Blakey's, it's almost like comparing apples and oranges. This music is so "subjective", that I don't think any one person can make such a "definitive" statement; after all, jazz is not a one size fits all.


Enjoy the music.

Well, "Aficionados", while I began this journey to constantly learn, and acquire new things, (which I did) I've also learned to appreciate what I already have, and I would like to touch on that.

In the beginning, I acquired "Moods" (Gene Harris) by the "Three Sounds", and I liked it a lot. Today, I'm listening to "Moods"; it's the very same one I acquired over 50 years ago, but it sounds so much better now, primarily because I can hear it better and appreciate it more.

I'm listening to the very same "Gene Harris" as I heard then, but he sounds so much better now. (an upgrade in equipment certainly doesn't hurt) but the ability to listen more intently increases one's awareness of the best music, by the best artist. He didn't just acquire that delicacy of touch, he had it back then; I'm just appreciating it more, now.

When I think about all the records I have, and the artists that I may not have listened to intently enough, it lets me know what I'll be doing in the immediate future. If you have an "epiphany" regarding some artist or record (CD), please share it.


Enjoy the music.

I really enjoyed Maynard Ferguson; a musician who I have very fond memories of.


On a weekend at my favorite watering hole, before Maynard got fat, and was still at the top of his game, I overheard this group of people who had put two tables together and were partying.

I was seated at the bar not far away, sipping on a scotch, and observing the revelers. They were having a grand time, and it was not until I overheard one of them challenge somebody in the group that; "I bet you can’t do it", that the group really got my attention. 

The challenge seemed to be aimed at the someone who was the most tipsy in the group. That’s when somebody handed him a trumpet, and he got up and imitated Maynard Ferguson’s famous high note. The guy really muffed it, and they all had a big laugh, but since he was Maynard Ferguson, it didn’t matter.


That was the only time I ever saw a celebrity out just having a good time with his friends.

There are strange things going on in some places on this planet, that I don't understand and I am compelled to comment on them.

Since my very first memory of life on this planet, there has been nothing more fascinating than "girls". The very first time I saw a pretty little girl, I pointed at her, and told my mother I wanted a pretty little girl just like that one.

I know we're not supposed to comment on anything that's not audio, so lets assume she was carrying a portable radio. (at 5 years old)

How can anyone harm females just because they're females?

I think they're perfect, the way they capture the essence of each song they sing; "Moanin" for example.

It's always about the song, never the singer, and no one knows that better than Ella; she's always so appropriate, never scatting when it's not called for.

Rok, I just ran across another vocalist who was perfect for the music he sang; "King Pleasure", the artist who was hot in the early 50's I think it was, he was on radio and the jukeboxes at that time. You can find him on "you tube"

I discovered why you never heard about him; he was "lazy", and only worked when he felt like it.

Frogman, since I'm not qualified to voice an expert opinion in re to classical music, I'll accept your expert opinion as the final word on Wynton's classical "virtuosity".

I'm listening to something right now that's the answer to one of Ghosthouse's questions; it was about "Taste of Honey" by "Vince Guaraldi" . This LP is titled "Vince Guaraldi and Bola Sete"; they are the one's I'm downloading; the one's I bought before CD, never bought anything but CD's after that. This LP is boss, it doesn't contain the "original" Taste of Honey.


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7R6UoOkF6M

Rok, that LP was released in 1964, and that only tells you "partially" how timeless this music is; I remember hearing some of this music going back to the mid 50's; good music never get old.

That always looking for something new, was a real "bummer"; and I don't mean like just looking for some new jazz that I hadn't heard, but it had to be the latest up to date jazz.

When I found, or was recommended what was the latest, it sounded more like the "lostest" to me. Now, I just let it happen without regard for when it was recorded but whether or not I like it. I know that most of the time the music falls in the category of "jazz jazz", but it's still new to me because there was so much good music recorded, that it was impossible to have collected it all, and now I'm just catching up. This is not to say that the latest has to always be out of shape, but I won't change my shape to suit it's shape.

Maybe in the next life time I'll come up to date, and get the music that's current; but for now, just getting the music that sounds good will suffice.


Enjoy the music.

The only relationship the Cuban Blues has to American Blues is the same relationship they both have to the Universal World Blues.

This music is about as "authentic" as any music can get; Cubans didn't have to reach back to Africa because it came to Cuba and never left; while slavery beat the Africa out of the Africans. I know you remember "Roots" and Kunta Kente. "My name is Kunta Kente!" Yo name is "Toby" now! Well, anybody who saw "Roots" know's how that argument got settled.

I'll have to listen to a lot more of this music, and get back to you Frogman.

Fourwinds, that "Bobby Hutcherson" I posted that you liked, gets more repeat play than any other Bobby Hutcherson in my collection.


Enjoy the music.

Jazz is not related to Africa, but people called "African Americans".

Frogman, since I am not a musician, you are going to speak a language that I have no comprehension of, and submit that as your proof, when it's for sure I can't refute it. I stand by what I hear and consider that as proof.

"Bebop" is a long way from Africa according to my ears.

Frogman, there is no such thing as "jazz" that one can refer to in any meaningful way; latin jazz, acid jazz, dixie land jazz, and on and on; what are you referring to?

I consider Charley Parker as "The Creator" of my kind of jazz. "Birds" racial lineage is mixed up with who knows what? Therefore you can not attribute any factor regarding "Bird" to Africa, other than the color of his skin, and when you discover there are some black people who are more Caucasian, than some white people, color of skin really gets flakey.

Slavery hasn't ended, it's still here in the form of it's descendants; those people in the inner city whose parents were uneducated and illiterate; consequently they were born behind the 8 ball.

John F. Kennedy realized there are two things every human being needs; that's a job and education in order to be more qualified for a job; his philosophy was assassinated 54 years ago. People with those items on their resume rarely wind up on the evening news.

It's not about race, it's about "opportunity" and who a person's parents were; people whose parents were educated value an education, therefore they are unlikely to wind up in the crime statistics because they generally have a career.

If anyone wants to understand the South, Flannery O Conner is a good place to start; Mary Flannery O'Connor was an American writer and essayist. An important voice in American literature, she wrote two novels and thirty-two short stories, as well as a number of reviews and commentaries. Born: March 25, 1925, Savannah, GA Died: August 3, 1964, Milledgeville, GA
Short stories: A Good Man Is Hard to Find, Good Country People, National Book Award for Fiction

She was born, lived her entire long life in the South, and died in the South; everything she wrote was related to the South.

It's 100% impossible to understand the inner city without understanding the South, because that's where the inner city came from.

This post is about "sociology", which is one of the subjects I studied; that science regards large numbers of people in specific groupings, as opposed to the black guy on the evening news who robbed the candy store.

I would appreciate it if you ignored this post as opposed to running to the moderator and declaring it "inflamatory".

Fourwinds, since this thread began we have discussed more than jazz, and probably will continue to do so in the future; however, we feel we can walk and chew gum at the same time. Since this is one of the more enlightened threads in regard to jazz, one can take the option of totally ignoring off topic posts, and simply respond to those relating to jazz.

     
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3jdbFOidds


Swing with it.

Now that you mention it Rok, Fusion did not survive the transition from records to being down-loaded to the computer.

If it's agreeable to everyone, lets hang into this Cuban thing for awhile; I like it's authenticity, you can feel it.

Rok, can you give us a review of the CD you just got?


Enjoy the music.

Rok, let me set this up so you can thoroughly understand it.

My favorite watering hole was owned by someone who entertained in Vegas at one time, and had worked with Maynard Ferguson; they were good friends, plus, the club was close to the hotel where Maynard was working and staying.

The club was dim, and Maynard and his party came in the same as any other revelers on the weekend (unannounced). It wasn't until the challenge that I knew who he was, which is just they way they wanted it. They were there to party, not to attract attention.

"Christo Redentor" is one of the most beautiful tunes I have ever heard, and I can still remember the first time I heard it. Just the other night, while searching for LP's to down-load, I discovered a new copy; was I elated.

It was so long ago that I don't remember when, but if I saw a new copy of one of my worn out collectors albums, I replaced it, and Donald Byrd's new perspective was just such an album.


I am enjoying the music.

Frogman, I only believe what I hear, and I don't hear anything "African" in "Birds" bebop.

I think since the music was developed primarily by "African Americans" it has to have some African quality in it, but I can't hear it in bebop.

People have the ability to connect the dots in strange ways when they want to.

How did people who couldn't even write music know all this brilliant stuff? Wynton, the go to guy for anything jazz, or "African American". While I found all of that very interesting, I would rather put the pieces together for myself.