Jazz for aficionados
Ghosthouse, this is "jazz Jazz" that's too cool for words; "Ham Hock Blues"; now you know with a title like that, this is the real deal, I know Rok, can tell us all about dem ham hock blues. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yosa8uF6myU Pass the corn bread, and don't go light on the beans. |
I don't know what jazz is, but I know it when I hear it, I also know you can not learn it in anybody's school; not even the best in the country. My kind of jazz began with "Be Bop"; that's what "Bird," Dizz, Monk and a few other musicians worked on before Miles; he came to New York looking for Bird. It's a funny thing, but none of them liked to call their music "Be Bop", but they had to call it something, why not "Be Bop". Although that's what made them famous, when they played music from the heart, meaning music that emanated from deep down in the soul, it didn't even sound like "Be Bop". That's the music we call "Jazz", we had to call it something. I also know they wanted a type of music that couldn't be stolen; music from the inner depths of the soul couldn't be stolen. I might call it "Geist" music, because a guy named Hegel spent his entire life trying to explain the soul in print, but he never succeeded. Since he couldn't do it in a lifetime, I certainly can't explain it in a post; but I believe I understand it as well as Hegel. I'm sure he understood it too, but just couldn't put it in writing. That's what the jazz men were after; something that couldn't be put in writing, and patented. They succeeded beyond their wildest dreams; that's what this thread is about, and that's why we keep hoping and praying that some new musicians will come along and give us what they gave us, but it ain't happening; so I say, until that time; Enjoy the music. |
These are some super hip dudes; "The Jazztet" featuring Art Farmer and Benny Golson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u23Etcb-L9M&list=PLafagIBDy-VK16r59rYQmmTdBJAZAJH8f&index=1 The epitome of Cool; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt3B1g3jkhE&list=PLafagIBDy-VK16r59rYQmmTdBJAZAJH8f&index=2 |
"Soul", what is it? Some of the most brilliant minds have tried to define it without success. Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel spent his entire life writing about the philosophy of soul; The Phenomenology of Spirit was the name of his most famous book. When the uneducated refer to "soul", they are speaking of the same thing that Hegel spent his life studying, and writing about. I find that point of contrast quite fascinating. "Ray Charles got soul"; nobody in his right mind will argue with that statement. "Ray Charles can play jazz". "Huh"! might be the response from many people. Those who are not "Jazz aficionados" might find the two words, soul and jazz to be incongruous; that's because they think of "soul music", which is light years away from jazz; but moving right along to "Brother Ray" and jazz, his jazz got plenty plenty soul. The top example of this is "Blue Funk"; that's on a LP titled "Soul Brothers", featuring Brother Ray, and Milt Jackson plus all the other "Soul Brothers" that make this music; the word can not be overused when discussing this album. "Blue Funk" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQnOY5LWrWI Enjoy the music. |
Fourwnds, me and my wife went for a long drive on a beautiful fall day, when the colors were at their peak, with another couple, and they played nothing but Kenny G, all the way there and back. I found his music so relaxing, that I nodded off four or five times; his music, and the red. green, and rust colored falling leaves, were like a tranquilizer of the highest magnitude. In order to enjoy Kenny G., you just have to be at the right time and place. Enjoy the music. |
Rok, you force me to justify my statement, and that always takes a long story. If you got time to listen, I got time to tell it. I hung out at this high end emporium so much that some of the customers thought I worked there; especially this one customer who could afford to buy the joint. Since I was always in the small theater where you audition equipment, he always had someone to talk to. He would come in and ask me questions, and I told him there was only one way to decide, and that was to listen to the stuff. Me and him would sit back in the movie theater seats, while I requested the changes in equipment; like less try this ARC pre-amp with that CJ amp. Since he didn't have his own music, we listened to mine. That went on for over a week, in which he had decided what he wanted, and brought in his own music. I was comfortably seated, and waiting to hear this dynamite music, when out blasts some kind of British marching music. It was all I could do to get that "What the .... is that" look off my face. I was thinking; he could have bought a wind up Graphenola to hear that; but he wasn't buying CJ and ARC for me. My point is, his music is my noise, and my music could have been noise to him which he tolerated, and the same could apply to you and me at times; so where is this judge who can say unequivocally which is which? Enjoy the music. |
Now is the time for the Frogman to shine, he never met a "Bruhah" that he didn't instantly fall in love with. Unfortunately he has a legitimate reason for not responding to my post on soul; but he picks and chooses to respond to posts like a politician; it depends on who he is in favor of on any given day. The reason he likes a "Bruhah" is because he can write one of his two page diatribes, that if I'm included, I wont know what I said or didn't say; I wont even recognize myself. It's like seeing myself in one of those fun house mirrors; I look short and squat in one, and like a tall skinny bean pole in the next one. Now that this has begun, there is no telling when we'll get back to music, so I might as well include a story that I've told a dozen times; it's about a guy who got a degree, or maybe degrees from Juilliard. He was my best friends brother, who lived in New York until he retired and moved to Florida. Recently, my friend got sick (very ill) and we were trying to contact his brother in Spain, but the hotel said he left there for another hotel; anyway, I never heard him play one note of jazz, but he made a very good living teaching music. I had two other friends who could really pack the house; they could jam like you would not believe, and neither one of them went to anybody's school. My point is quite simple, when it comes to "hard bop" jazz, either you got it, or you no got it; if they didn't care about school, why should I? Although I must concede that a degree from da big "J" will most certainly command a fat paycheck. Enjoy the music. |
Old and new jazz is a fallacy; are you referring to the date it was recorded, or the style, or the artists; it can get confusing; especially when you make that classification. But in order to clarify the allegations; "No I don't like new jazz". I don't like new or old jazz that does not sound like squat. Here is some clarinet work featuring two of the most interesting people in jazz who will never go out of style; they will always be modern. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93d_37synC4&t=40s Enjoy the music. |
I like clarinet where it seems "appropriate" as in the time when it was popular. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkdCr9HlRE0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=towtYP6bpBI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhkZ_eiqLXg |
Ghosthouse, as you so appropriately stated, "You can have jazz without soul, but the best jazz got to have soul", and you can hear it. Believe it or not, not everyone can hear it. I think one must have a built in "soul receptor" in order to hear it; whatever it is that enables one to hear soul, you got it. That's indicated by the music you choose. "Maiden Voyage" has been one of my favorite tunes since the first time I heard it. It's a memory I shall never forget; I was cruising in the "Deuce" down one of the main boulevards tuned to "Jazz FM", when out of the clear night came this most beautiful tune; it was "Maiden Voyage"; that added to my feeling good sense of being. Before I even knew the title, the music made me feel the calm resolve one must feel when going on a "Maiden Voyage"; as well as the sense of adventure when on a journey into the unknown. This is at a time when I was young (in my twenties) and any time I was cruising in the "Deuce" down one of the main boulevards in the night, I felt a sense of adventure because I never knew what pleasures I might encounter before the night was over. Enjoy the music. |
When it comes to "serenity" the combination of Bill Evans and Toots deliver; they are like one on the album "Affinity"; which is in my personal top 10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToND0PqRrPE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsDRdbkGRf0 And they can also "Boogy" a little bit, on the same LP; git down Charley Brown! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ESLJebaWyU Enjoy the music. |
What would a movie be without music? No one can even imagine it; but do you think any of the "movie makers" want to learn anything about how to make music? Nowhere is it stated that this thread should have anything about making music; it's about listening to, and evaluating "Jazz music". Everything about this thread is spelled out in the beginning; it's about collecting and evaluating "Jazz records", and that is what an "Aficionado" of jazz records does. If you are an aficionado who wants to teach something about music, I have no objection to that. If there are aficionados who want to learn something about making music, I have no objection to that; however, I do object to including "yours truly". Enjoy the music. |
Glad you liked it; that was almost a continuation of your Bill Evans link. He was like a chameleon in regard to his ability to change colors to suit the situation. I just happened to have a funny thought about Miles and Monk. I have a Miles record where I always identify the pianist as Monk, when it's actually Horace Silver. I also have another Miles record where I make the same mistake with another pianist. The funny part about this thing is that it's due to the fact that Miles was having some kind of rift with Monk, so instead of getting Monk to play the part, he gets whoever the pianist is to play like Monk. "Say Horace, do that plink plink plunk, Monk thing right here." Enjoy the players. |
Glad you liked it; that was almost a continuation of your Bill Evans link. He was like a chameleon in regard to his ability to change colors to suit the situation. I just happened to have a funny thought about Miles and Monk. I have a Miles record where I always identify the pianist as Monk, when it's actually Horace Silver. I also have another Miles record where I make the same mistake with another pianist. The funny part about this thing is that it's due to the fact that Miles was having some kind of rift with Monk, so instead of getting Monk to play the part, he gets whoever the pianist is to play like Monk. "Say Horace, do that plink plink plunk, Monk thing right here." Enjoy the players. |
You know Rok, some people believe in just letting things ride, but I don't. It has been stated I don't know how many times, that if I left this thread, it would thrive; so I left it for maybe two months, and I saw no changes. You also left for awhile and I saw no changes; that means "conclusively" that this thread has all the people it's going to get. Rather than just let it ride, I want it to be stated, and if anyone disagrees let him (no need to say, "Or her") speak, or forever hold his peace. I always see that in the movies, but this is the first time I've ever said it; that's real cool; I'll have to look for another opportunity to say it. Enjoy the music. |
I've got an album by an artist I've never seen featured on this thread; maybe there is someone who knows more about this artist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M76zatuTtKg Although not "jazz jazz" I like the music, and I was wondering; "What do you think"? Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, although your assessment is fairly accurate, this just shows that music outside the genre, can still sound good to some individuals. Maybe it's because of the selection of the tunes he decided to record, plus the cover art puts one in the mood for the sea shore; I can just feel the ocean spray when the waves crash on the rocks. I like all of the tunes recorded, and the music fits the tunes; we'll see what Ghosthouse thinks about it. Enjoy the music. |
Maybe, it's the album cover, since I agree with you both, but I still like the album. Sometime the music we like is related to something other than the music; for example something memorable might have happened on the day I bought that album, and I associate what happened that day with the music. The same thing can occur with perfume; get a whiff passing by some lady and get intoxicated, pheromones just run wild. This comes under the heading of strange psychology by association. You probably never considered all the fringe benefits you git on this thread from hanging out with me. Enjoy the music. |
I like clifford Jordons sax on this one; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF6q6XKKrik Enjoy the music. |
Hormones were acting up on and off the the screen when I saw those very scenes at the drive in; that was a most memorable movie; I was driving the "Deuce" then. Johnny Mathis; I can't think of anything I don't like by him; so many sweet young faces flash before me when I hear him; all the girls liked "Johnny Mathis, always good to bring one of his albums on a social call. That music makes me think of the time when I was young. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG4-QlBu7mw Enjoy the music. |
Here is a really nice album all the way through, but I'm sure you already have it; in case you don't, get it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGivttfAGlU&list=PL872DDBDD38965152 Enjoy the music. |
Errol Garner, from "Concert By The Sea"; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEN8pbFDMcE&list=PLFNXF9a5upesFDucvjZdBFQ1vXxHi9Xv6 |
Ghosthouse, in some ways, jazz is almost like a religion, especially the standards. Since I'm one of the leading proponents of this faith, I consider it sacrilegious when an artist defiles one of the sacred tunes by playing it all wrong to the extent that the tune loses it's original meaning, and empathy with those who it was meant for. "Moanin" was specially written for those who are severely down on their luck, and under those circumstances can do nothing but "Moan"; that's a bad fix to be in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bah68kQlnAQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TdY6iqV2k0 Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, you must be thinking about Isis and Osiris; this religious sense is a long way from that. I feel music, when you see notes on a piece of sheet paper. I can think of two dozen different way I've heard "Moanin" but never like that; maybe you didn't get my drift in regard to the emotional aspect of the tune. |
Ghosthouse, I'm glad to hear you defending your unique view of this music. "Because I’m not as grounded in jazz as you more seasoned aficionados, I’m also not married to a particular style or mode of interpretation applied to a given composition. I don’t have expectations. Consequently, this music just sounds very fresh and different to me. NEW even. Which reminds me of the three blind guys seeing an elephant for the first time. Frogman, I didn't think that was contentious; it was just a statement of fact. Statements of fact are neither judgmental or divisive; they just are; like the sky is blue, unless it's cloudy, and then beyond the clouds it's still blue. You took the statement "jazz is almost like a religion" and turned it into one of those "Islam" type things where you can get beheaded for blasphemy. |
Rok, you can appreciate this; I've been hanging with the analogers to pick up some tips on cartridge installation, and for sure I went to the right place. They were also discussing 20K tone arms and special records, but when they got to music; if I had to be on a deserted island with them guys, it would not take very long before I would try the long swim. What they call music, would make a lot of noises sound good; like tree frogs for example, I like the sound tree frogs make better than the music they recommended. Those are the recruits the Frogman is seeking for this thread. (it's a joke). That's why I say all music is "subjective" because I don't have the right to call their music noise, even if tree frogs sound better. How about some "Charley Brown" Christmas music for a mood changer? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVB18xbRMI4&list=PL0z5a235GY1awuZeBQBO6ZWQfg95Gkg5N Enjoy the music. |
Ghosthouse, I don't know anything about ballet, but from what I can gather "Swan Lake" doesn't have a lot of latitude for variation, and there are certain elements that constitute a perfect "Swan Lake". Although there are no written rules for jazz standards, there are unwritten rules that the vast majority of jazz artists adhere to. At the same time it's possible to like a tune that has broken all the rules. If you know something about ballet, and "Swan Lake" specifically, how would you compare that to "the jazz standards"? Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, you have mentioned the unwritten rules many times, but now you don't know them; sorry, I can't help you. I posted this at 2:36 PM today in order to change the subject, but nobody noticed it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVB18xbRMI4&list=PL0z5a235GY1awuZeBQBO6ZWQfg95Gkg5N Apparently we would rather go around the Christmas tree than enjoy it. |
Ghosthouse, "Moanin" is what it is, and that will never change, although there are many ways to reach the end result of what the tune is about, or just play it any way the artist wants to, but the original intention of the tune will never change. Maybe if the name was changed to "Moanin" modified it would be acceptable. If you like the music, that's fine, but it doesn't change anything in regard to the "original" tune and intended meaning by Bobby Timmons. In regard to the blind guys, there was only one elephant, yet each came to his own conclusion; such is the way of three different sighted individuals looking at anything, or listening to jazz. While most of jazz is abstract, Moanin is most specific. Enjoy the music. |
The closer it gets to Christmas, the more I get into the spirit. It's the music that makes this holiday more than any other. For me, the artist that combines "jazz" and Christmas better than any other is "Vince Guaraldi". These days there is a lot of new Christmas music; music to suit any genre of music you prefer, mine is still the "Classic" songs, along with the original vocalists. Why don't you share with us, your favorite Christmas tunes. Enjoy the music. |
Randy, nobody has any original recordings of Buddy Bolden! I have been curious about Buddy Bolden every since I heard Nina Simon sing about him on one of her albums, but I never sought any information or went any farther than that before today. He was born in 1877 and died in 1931; that means his music, even though it was called "Jass", probably would not have been in my collection, but "youtube" has some tunes that are representative of what Buddy Bolden might have played. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OZNNrT61s8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fezzxFjcfI Enjoy the music. |
This is the absolute ultimate in jazz; it's required that you hear through the worst recording ever made in order to make this distinction. If only a better recording could be found. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0PwxDtN22Y |
That picture on the album cover of "Giant Steps" is vividly painted on my memory, I can still remember when I bought that LP. Someone commented negatively on the "stereo imaging" of that LP. When that LP was made "Stereo" was relatively new, and they had albums in "mono" or stereo; stereo LP's cost a dollar more at that time, and I don't recall there being any reference to such a thing as "sound-stage". The present crop of audiophiles will have to take what the get and shut the f--- up; but since they rarely come this close to music, I don't think it should matter. "Trane" was a new step in the evolution of jazz, and with this LP he made a "Giant Step" |
Rok, while my posts seem to imply that I "stream", my tastes are far too specific, and my time too valuable to stream. Also, I spent years, some time ago perfecting my rig; thank God I'm no longer into that; it required listening to everything except the music. I use "winamp". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winamp As I have often stated, I have a computer "Guru" who is worth his weight in gold. I know nothing about computers, I don't even understand when he takes time to explain (past tense; when he took time to explain, he doesn't waste that time anymore) I use "WAV" on an external hard drive that enables me to have "very long" play lists. I even have files of "play lists"; one list can run for 12 hours or more; that makes it like listening to the radio. https://www.google.com/search?q=WAV&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS858US858&oq=WAV&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l... I've been to many schools, and learned many things, but computers do not compute in my brain. I suggest that everyone who is unable to understand computers find a friend who does. |
2-11-2016 10:09am Ghosthouse, in some ways, jazz is almost like a religion, especially the standards. Since I'm one of the leading proponents of this faith, I consider it sacrilegious when an artist defiles one of the sacred tunes by playing it all wrong to the extent that the tune loses it's original meaning, and empathy with those who it was meant for. I made that statement to "Ghosthouse" in humor, and I think he would have taken it that way, but what does Frogman say: 12-11-2016 11:41am **** jazz is almost like a religion **** This is true; for some. I would then ask that we consider all the single-mindedness, upheaval, hatred and violence that a strict and rigid interpretation of religion has wrought on humanity. With the exception of the violence and hatred (I hope), I think that the parallels to some of our discussions (?) about music are pretty obvious. The statement I made to "Ghosthouse" was in humor, so I thought; but Frogman's trolly jumped the tracks in a big way on a statement that was made to Ghosthouse; I don't see where he even needed to respond to the statement. Next he says I'm being contentious, after he's jumped in a conversation not even meant for him; how does he know what interpretation the person who the statement was meant for would have made? I don't think Ghosthouse would have taken the statement in that direction. His statement in regard to religion was not my statement, yet he makes this as though it was something I was thinking. Why does he always do this to a statement I made to someone else. When I make a statement to Rok, the same statement could mean something entirely different as when I make the statement to Ghosthouse. But how can Frogman get the right interpretation when the statement is addressed specifically to another person? After Frogman draws me into one of his "diatribes" he wants to keep it going forever, and say I'm the one whose "contentious". I tried to change the subject and the mood, but I didn't succeed; therefore I feel I should give my version of the incident. |
Today is Wednesday 21 December 16, three days before Christmas, and all my Santa Claus stuff is complete. Now everyone in the household is out doing last minute shopping. Being home alone is a good time to record vinyl to computer play list. The first record I picked up was "Gato Chapter one Latin America"; he has such a marvelous feel for the music in that part of the world; especially the "Tango". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcqbgVB-U5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w2O0FTujGM I like the scenery as well as the music on the second one. Have a happy holiday. |
The "Bass Clarinet" is one of the most unusual instruments; it seems like I just discovered it yesterday and can't get enough of it. The music takes me somewhere I've never been before, but I want to keep going back to that same place. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuqyzGW5MlI |
