Frogman, I read where there are men on the moon; but I wont say where because I was sworn to secrecy.
Alex has been sincerely trying to find some answers, that you have, but will not divulge them.
Btw, I think you shortchange others on this forum. There are many participants here who, for (I assume) various reasons, choose not to participate in this thread. I base that on comments I read made on other threads. Imo, it's always best to not make too many assumptions about what and how much one knows; personally, I prefer to focus on what I may not know.
It sounds to me like you have a secret that others want to know, why don't you tell us why the multitudes of others refuse to post on this thread; that's an old trick.
Every Time things are running smooth on this thread you rock the boat.
Things were running smooth on page 148; that was too good for you wasn't it?
|
And what about this;
Btw, I think you shortchange others on this forum. There are many participants here who, for (I assume) various reasons, choose not to participate in this thread. I base that on comments I read made on other threads. Imo, it's always best to not make too many assumptions about what and how much one knows; personally, I prefer to focus on what I may not know.
These are your words, could you please expand on them; they allude to some mysterious reason others who are jazz aficionados choose not to participate in this particular thread; could you expand on your own words.
|
Bird could have played everything that Trane played. The answer is a resounding NO.
Frogman, that is the most ludicrous statement you ever made. If the notes were on a saxophone, "Bird" could play them, plus "Bird's" music was comprehensible.
GAME OVER, you win
Enjoy the music
|
When You hear the beauty of this tune that was made in 49, and sounds as current as if it was made yesterday, you know why "Bird" is idolized. The way bird can riff over a slow easy going ballad is amazing; this tune is too beautiful for words. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmRkZeGFONgEnjoy the music. |
Acman, I've never heard this one; it's simplicity personified, "We don't need no more trouble". The lyrics and the music make you want to hang out on the beach under a coconut tree with some loving company.
Enjoy the music.
|
If there had not been a "Charles Parker" there would not be a John Coltrane; he started out imitating "Bird" note for note; now what does that say about who's boss?
The proof of the pudding lies in the listening; some can hear, some can not; jazz is a very special music where you have to listen deeply to a number of phases intently to hear what musicians in each phase are doing. If you came into jazz exclusively in the "Coltrane Era", you may not be able to hear all the things "Bird" did.
Enjoy the music.
|
Frogman, if Trane were alive today, he wouldn't even back up your statement in regard to "Bird". I'm beginning to wander if you can really hear jazz, because apparently you haven't heard "Bird".
Have you read Miles Bio? Do you have any idea why "Bird" is idolized over Trane? Do you have any idea why "all" the jazz giants idolize "Bird"?
If Trane himself would not back up any of your statements where you place him over "Bird", then you must be lost in the woods.
|
Frogman, I feel that I got sucked into a silly argument, that I didn't want to be in, in the first place, and now you cop out.
|
"Rasta Man Vibrations" and "Natty Dread" were my first two reggae albums, that led me to other artists; it was a real blast. I even went to "Mo Bay"; that's what the islanders call "Montego Bay". It's the second largest city in Jamaica. Believe it or not, Jamaicans are more into jazz than reggae; that's for the tourists. On the radio, you will hear jazz so hip, that you'll think you're in New York; that was a welcome relief because reggae is best in small doses; you don't want to OD. "Natty Dread" gives you a feel for the island, and how most Jamaicans live. Let's hear a couple of songs from that album; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIM-tkNBK-0&list=PLEMVZmX54bvdRnDAOo4ofi4XP48b6SdOFEnjoy the music. |
The purpose of this thread is to share our best musical experiences, so that we may increase our collections. While it states for "jazz aficionados", meaning those who have spent their entire adult lives listening to, and collecting jazz records, jazz is so ambiguous now, that sharing your best musical experiences is good enough.
Acman submitted some reggae by Bob Marley, who was at the top of his game when he left us; since he died doing what he enjoyed most, it wasn't all bad; there are worse ways to go.
This is not a thread for debating (arguing about who's the best) Since all music is "subjective", I can say who's the best, but if it doesn't qualify according to your musical ears and taste, it's moot.
However, since I have listened to and acquired jazz records all my adult life, I do hope that I have been instrumental in helping you to acquire records (CD's) that increase your enjoyment of the music.
I posted some "Bird" that might be too old, or not in the same groove as some tastes, and I'm sincerely curious about that; what did you think of those "Bird" posts?
Enjoy the music.
|
|
Frogman, this is your cup of tea, you could go back and forth on something like this for days on end. I can certainly see how others would get discouraged in watching this "bruha" that is not a productive, or enjoyable discussion about the music. That sounds like a very good reason not to participate in this thread.
|
The tune "I Want To Be a Sideman" submitted by Frogman 09-05-2016 11:23am, caused me to think how a major jazz musician coming through St. Louis wanting to do a gig would pick up sidemen. At that time, there were so many good jazz musicians in St. Louis, that it wasn't a major problem to pick up good sidemen. A good musician who didn't want to leave home, and find his lady done took up with "Jody" and gone when he gets back home, would definitely want to be a "sideman". He would belong to the local, have a book, and have fun in between gigs, without any responsibility; that sounds like my kind of life when I was young, and my only goal in life was to have fun. This is the song I liked; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdOav-Gt6mIEnjoy the music. |
Frogman, who are you to criticize "Bird"? While you are most certainly entitled to your own opinions, some of them sound like you been smoking da splif mon.
|
Alex, I was hooked from the beginning notes; I'll have to search for more of their music; it sounds like a beautiful combination of jazz with a reggae beat.
Enjoy the music.
|
When you buy music from the islands; this is what you hear, the people in the islands like this kind of jazz, they don't care for "stereotypical" music, meaning reggae Jamaica, or the "stereotypical" steel drum Trinidad music, they seem to like what I call Island music, which is a mixture of all the Islands. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndcyncj0hMcThis is super hip Island music; it's what the people prefer, not what's presented to the tourists. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-Sk8xdJBUQEnjoy the music. |
Rok, I'm so glad you asked that question. I went to "Mo Bay" by my lonesome and hooked up with a beautiful Jamaican Lady. That's a No NO, but nobody told me; they chased me and the lady all over the island. I went from one place to the other, but the Jamaicans must have been beating the talking drums on us because no matter where we went, they seemed to be expecting us.
I took my lady (not the one I'm married to) to Haiti, but I still managed to talk to one of the locals, she was very skittish about talking to me. (not because of that male female thing but because of the crazy government in Haiti, see "The Comedians")
At any rate we talked about music (she was a sales lady at the music store) and I still have the records she recommended; they were similar to what I posted. There is no way I was going to fool around in Haiti, they can do bad things to you, and you wont even know they done done em.
Regina Carter just came on the box with that Mississippi violin thing we bought.
I didn't play the records until I got home; they're similar to what's posted.
Are you sure Pops said that; it seems to me I read that in one of Flannery O' Connor's short stories; she's the best thing to come out of Mississippi; MI crooked letter crooked letter I humpback humpback I; just kidding.
Don't stay gone so long.
Enjoy the music.
|
Moreover, music is not subjective; our reaction to it is (sometimes). For anyone interested in some facts:
That sentence is total 100% BS; you are claiming to have some OBJECTIVE handle on music. Even if you had a doctorate in music and a professional musician to boot, you still would not have any kind of objective handle on music.
You have proven over the years, that our sense of "aesthetics" is different. Whatever I see as beautiful, you will find fault with it. That's not wrong, nor is it right; it just is.
When people's sense of aesthetics are different, especially since you have been to music school; or maybe even teach music sometime, you seem to believe that you have some kind of "objective" handle on music; that's your illusion.
Enjoy the music.
|
I don't get it Frogman, instead of just posing these questions to me, why don't you get everybody else's opinions on these questions.
Enjoy the music.
|
Ghosthouse, your links were right on; there was a "Cold Duck Wine" that was popular at that time. I'll go back through that Les McCann link, and do some shopping. Those crowded wet city streets looked like any city around Christmas time. We were having fun big time when "The In Crowd" came out; I even tried to dance. I've got a ton of Ramsey Lewis records; now compared to then makes you want to cry.
Enjoy the music.
|
"Cold Duck Time" and "Compared To What" are universally loved in the jazz community, and they were hits from day one.
I'm not certain if the tune "Cold Duck Time" refers to a popular wine we were drinking at that time, but I recall guys coming to parties with bottles of it and announcing "It's cold duck time", let the celebration begin.
Those were the days my friend, I thought they would never end. The very ground that I partied and had so much fun on, is now the Ghetto, and nobody I know lives there any longer. Since I consider myself a sociologist, that's very important. I'm not changing the subject, music relates to everything, it comes from the people at the time of it's origination. Those were some good times, and you can feel it in the music, they even danced to it.
Those changes have occurred in every major city in this country; if you are a concerned citizen of this country, you should be concerned about that. Changes that take a minimum of 30 years, occurred overnight. Now compared to then (1969), should be the title of a song.
Enjoy the music.
|
Rok, that "Celestian Chant" by McCoy Tyner is a new one for me, I will get it. Now I see, that one CD "Trident" has all of that on it. That makes it a "must have".
I don't know who the "progressives" are, but if I see one I'll report him.
Enjoy the music.
|
Frogman, when I went to find something by Red Garland, this came up. While I'm sure its of interest to you, I just wanted to hear the music. Your comments on this would be appreciated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqc9gsDCJSUEnjoy the music. |
Alex, Red's piano really sparkles in this group. Pepper Adams must be the best sideman in the business; every body seems to want him, I have him playing with more different artists than anyone I can think of.
Red is really in a good groove on this album, and I wish they had made more music in this lineup
Most important for my collection, is the fact that I am still adding "new" old music thanks to you guys.
Enjoy the music.
|
|
When I tried to post that link yesterday, that guy kept interrupting the music, and I decided that Frogman would be better than any of us to respond to whatever he was talking about, but no Frogman. However, I did find a good CD in my collection "Soul Junction" Red Garland - piano John Coltrane - tenor sax Donald Byrd - trumpet George Joyner - bass Art Taylor - drums This is the best CD out of all the rest in regard to hearing "Red Garland's" music. As the title suggests we hear the soul of Red Garland, and it's kind of "blusie", if there is such a word. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbEzCPQKRW0Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, that's a fantastic contribution;
Donald Byrd - trumpet
Pepper Adams - baritone saxophone
Herbie Hancock - piano
Butch Warren - bass
Billy Higgins - drums
Now I can listen without wandering what's Mustang Sally up to, or, is Susie Q. back in town. This music sounds ever so good; Pepper Adams, and Donald Byrd go together like bacon and eggs, you can't have one without the other.
Herbie Hancock sounds real good, but has not yet established himself as "The Herby Hancock".
The music overall is good, that's a tribute to Donald Byrd, he always comes through. The records of his that I sold, I had to buy them back. They were sold because I hadn't adjusted to his "new" music; this record is before his "new" music, and is straight ahead jazz.
Enjoy the music.
|
Frogman, when I clicked on that link, I expected to hear music, not a lot of "Blah Blah Blah". I thought it might relate to something you knew and cared about. But now we're moving on to the next thing.
BTW, one of the reasons we have so many viewers, and so few participants, is because it takes effort, and some sort of intellect to contribute to this thread; I say to participants on this thread, pat yourself on the back for the effort you have made to keep this thread going.
I was a teenager when I became interested in jazz; at that time, nothing was more important than girls and cars. I liked to hear the music, but I didn't take the time to read the covers; which means I gave little importance to the "sidemen". Now that I'm an old man, I done forgot what girls are for, and cars are for going to the drugs store for prescriptions.
The sidemen I neglected to focus on are now the primary focus for discussion. Could you suggest a sideman you would like to put in the spotlight.
Enjoy the music.
|
Newbee, I considered the music pleasant, like the music that used to be over the PA in large office buildings; it was music to sleep by. I recall buying something like that when CD's first came out because they didn't have any jazz on CD.
You were spot on in regard to whether or not I would like it.
Enjoy the music.
|
I just found out the recording quality of that link I was trying to post of "Red Garland" wasn't too good, so that kills it for me. While I'm not extreme in regard to recording quality, there is a minimum, and if the music doesn't meet it, on to the next thing.
I've been listening to female Brazilian vocalists lately, and I was wondering if that would be a good subject for our next foray into good music. It's a lot more productive when we do this thing as a group; I want to make sure we're of one mind before the next venture; that means you too Rok if you're still with us.
How about a little feedback?
Enjoy the music.
|
Elis Regina has a "pixi" quality that is captivating, and a smile that grabs your heart, plus she can sing.
This music has many unique qualities that I love, it seems to be a mixture of every thing that makes good music.
I am enjoying the music.
|
Claudia Villela is so beautiful, she could sing to me until the end of time; she's a song bird. If I had my life to live over, I would be a Brazilian musician.
Enjoy the music.
|
You have given me all the feedback I need with your contributions, and I can see this is going to be a long and fruitful journey.
Enjoy the music.
|
|
Frogman, if music was objective, that would mean the objectively good music you are posting on this thread would have attracted more participants than this thread could handle. That's not meant to start an argument, but to settle one, that's best left alone.
I think you are posting very good music, but not everyone thinks so.
(the devil made me do it)
Enjoy the music.
|
I searched through my collection, and could not believe the shortage of Brazilian vocalists. "Astrud Gilberto" is a lady who got into singing by accident; she was with her husband "Joao Gilberto" and the producer "Creed Taylor" wanted some English sung on a number of songs such as "The Girl From Ipenema". While I'm going to start off with this one, I will find something more unique. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1uEy-n4IsUEnjoy the music. |
|
This album was recorded in 1971, The Allmusic review calls it a "set that had some mildly entertaining moments". We might give it a higher rating, I don't know. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWZZRWuhw1IAs I'm listening I would give it a better rating than that, but I'm also listening to the music, and not just the vocal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hmrz8CEvH8Astrud Gilberto - vocals Stanley Turrentine - tenor saxophone (tracks 2, 5, 6 & 8) Eumir Deodato - electric piano, arranger, conductor Emanuel Green, George Marge, Hubert Laws, Romeo Penque - flute (tracks 2, 5, 7, 8 & 10) Gene Bertoncini (tracks 1, 3, 4, 7, 10 & 12), Sivouca (tracks 2, 5, 6, 8) - guitar Sam Brown (tracks 1, 2, 5, 6, 8, 12 & 13), Bob Mann (tracks 3, 4, 7, 9 & 12) - electric guitar Toots Thielemans - harmonica (tracks 6 & 11) Ron Carter (tracks 1-3, 5-8 & 11), Russell George (tracks 4 & 9-13) - bass Dennis Seiwell (tracks 4, 9, 10 & 13), Dom Um Romão (tracks 2, 5 & 11), João Palma (tracks 1, 3, 7 & 12) - drums Airto Moreira - percussion (tracks 2, 5 & 11) Emanuel Green, Gene Orloff, Harry Katzman, Joe Malin, Julie Held, Paul Gershman - violin (tracks 1-5 & 7-10) Harold Coletta - viola (tracks 1, 2, 4, 7-10) George Ricci - cello (tracks 1-5 & 7-10) Not as good as previous links but it's still on the same track that we've chosen, and it's got a pretty picture on the cover; that counts for something. Enjoy the music. |
|
Ghosthouse, I never saw a picture of Ahmad that young, and this is the first time I ever saw Vernel Fournier, although I have most of Ahmad's records featuring him.
I saw Ahmad in Chicago in the middle 80's, and they had tickets to Japan; the drummer told me they couldn't make a living without Europe and Japan; I think these conserts confirms that.
I liked all of those clips; they illustrated the progression of styles, and I liked each one a lot for different reasons; the first was so nostalgic, the second was nice, but the last one was absolutely fantastic.
I'm glad you're enjoying our thread.
Enjoy the music.
|
After listening to all of that down right funky Electrifying Eddie Harris, I'm going to lay something on you, that is so beautiful it will cast a spell; from the same album, "Theme In Search Of a Movie"; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgNum6bqX0IEnjoy the music. |
Frogman, me, you and Ghosthouse are three diverse individuals; could we agree the link I posted "Scarborough Fair" is good music?
Enjoy the music.
|
Frogman, I see the distinction you're making, but you're splitting hairs in regard to how technically "good" music affects other people adversely; the difference between whether or not that person considers good music to be bad, or bad music to be good, are irrelevant, unless you are a music teacher, or musician.
Enjoy the music.
|
|
Ghosthouse, I thought both links were nice easy listening music, but I wouldn't rush out and but it.
Most people have no idea what music is as related to them as an individual; if you heard some music while you were with the love of your life, and she liked it too, I guarantee you would become very attached to that music.
Have you ever listened to music on the general music forum that others are raving over? And after listening, you wonder, how could anyone like that?
After doing this, you will realize that anyone who says music is "objective", and they know what is, and what is not good music, is under an illusion; we can only say what sounds good to us.
Enjoy the music.
|
Frogman, Hermeto Pascoal is a muse; meaning that his music is not as good as he inspires other musicians to make. This assessment is based on the musical links you provided which were pleasant, and interesting, but not as good as the musicians he's worked with.
I see by his bio, that he's worked with some of my favorite Brazilian musicians, that means I can look through my collection and discover which projects he was involved in that I already have.
Enjoy the music.
|
|
Acman, those were very good contributions, if they were women, I wouldn't throw any of them out of bed (Rok put that thought in my head, did you see that link he posted?)
Enjoy the music.
|
Frogman, apparently, you don't know the definition of the words; 2+2= 4, that's objective, no one can argue with that. I don't care how good, or how bad you say the music is, it's just your say so, which only has as much validity as the court you're in.
Enjoy the music.
|
Joe Henderson caused Rudy Van Gelder to change his way of doing things on the LP "Idle Moments" by Grant Green. Rudy kept a very tight accounting of the time on each cut, but Joe Henderson was blowing so pretty on his solo, that Rudy didn't warn them to wrap it up when his red light came on; that's saying a lot.
Joe gets better every year. (I didn't even know he was dead) I got to get that CD.
Enjoy the music.
|
