Jazz for aficionados

@mahgister 

You are most welcome, sir! 

@pjw81563 

I take it that you are referring to the original RVG recordings. 

Detractors of the RVG remasters have asserted they are too bright, due to RVG's age at the time and his loss of hearing in the high frequency range. My system is on the warm side of neutral and I don't find them so but those for whom transparency and detail are the highest priorities and have systems that highlight such priorities may well disagree. 

That's quite a Blakey collection you have but then his was quite a dynasty !  

@curiousjim 

Can't help with streaming but the CD is available here:

https://www.discogs.com/sell/list?master_id=359944&ev=mb&ships_from=United+States&format=CD

@pjw81563

I for one like the way they sound and you can get a ton of RVG remasters from a ton of musicians.

Well; many on CD are no longer in print, so grab ’em up while you can!

Still, they’re easier to find in many cases than the Ron McMaster versions. I  personally wouldn’t avoid buying any of the RVG’s because of sound, but then, my system is somewhat on the warm side. 

@curiousjim

Stitt was quite prolific; here’s another one I like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuEV0iq9g3E

@curiousjim 

thanks go the link. A friend gave me a copy.

It’s good to have friends.😁

👍

@pjw81563 

It's very disappointing, to put it mildly, to learn about A. Lion's abhorrent behavior. 

Anyone here ever read "Straight Life" (was there ever a more ironic title?) by Art Pepper? 

@curiousjim 

Are you familiar with Vincent Herring? 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=vincent+herring+simple+pleasure

@curiousjim

Haven’t heard that one.

BTW, another excellent record featuring Ralph Moore is Kenny Barron’s "Other Places":

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kenny+barron+other+places

I will attempt to restrain myself from bombarding you with further suggestions, as the Penguin has ( I presume) already provided you with a ton of options! ;o )

@curiousjim 

Well, OK  -- if you insist!  Sticking to the Ralph Moore theme, here's a live JJ Johnson date with a killer group of sidemen: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoYmdoOoOto

JJ Johnson: Trombone

Ralph Moore: Sax

Victor Lewis: Drums

Bass: Rufus Reid

Piano: Stanley Cowell 

@curiousjim 

You're welcome!

Stanley Cowell is excellent.

@mahgister 

The sax, trumpet, piano, bass and drums is probably my favorite. 

Check out Billy Harper's quintet recordings with trumpeter Eddie Henderson, such as the three "Live in the Far East" releases and the studio releases "Soul of an Angel" and "Destiny is Yours". Fine Spiritual Jazz. 

@mahgister 

👍

Anyone here familiar with THIS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-HFL-225h0&list=OLAK5uy_k63Hkt1penVf4t3max4r6plAnPtWshOQM

or...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzzkNfBRHnk

or...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cjVs_xd6Fw&list=OLAK5uy_mjJDk4caBikTDjgkoJfOY7PKfphKc7ukE

@curiousjim 

You can never go wrong with Santana!

...especially when partnered with J. McLaughlin! 

@curiousjim

How have I never heard John McLaughlin? I don’t have a single CD or even a tune that he’s played on in my collection.

What a huge rock I’ve been under!

Well, I don’t know ;o)

He’s gone through many varied phases in his career (both acoustic and electric). Everyone here will have their favorites and so, there are many possible entry points. Here are my highlights:

1) Mahavishnu Orchestra: "The Inner Mounting Flame" and "Birds of Fire"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bGlIdUiZww

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mdGCqZTres

2) Acoustic Trio with Al DeMeola and Paco de Lucia: "Friday Night in San Francisco" and "The Guitar Trio"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhK_GFNq0N0&list=OLAK5uy_m3G0kqZEHRlJQRaPDPm24JHgr3sDg9Dmo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZUjEM4K-Y8&list=PLnVn29o5Rr-WyFmeqNMRD1JUfGPqbtFO2

2) With Milles -- "in A Silent Way", "Bitches Brew" and "Tribute to Jack Johnson"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHesqaMhh34

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up9yWDl0jBc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50fB5L1vmn8

3) "Emergency" with Tony Williams Lifetime".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa4z_-2BLpo&list=PLXfrcG1laNyz1nIaTEytw-BtSDCBmgpqX

4) Two of my favorites from early on: "Extrapolation" and "My Goals Beyond".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6LkGwuimsU&list=OLAK5uy_mKm4NpG6DQs2o_fM-VCd5NOsejjFAetrg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd-JqnBWkro&list=OLAK5uy_ml8P0Xkvpu-LEkewJPoG9cdUiqbG3nQ9g

5) "Johnny McLaughlin Electric Guitarist" and "Electric Dreams" from 1979 feature what is probably his most gorgeous electric guitar tone and some of his most melodic playing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOHFqkQIgMU&list=OLAK5uy_lkVyvWMUxcnJCYFH5S3Q3hwDgEKx-TxeI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYCLuCgt5JA&list=OLAK5uy_kIO1rFHxsodO1wv85atNVojWcPRNBhVps

7) The group Shakti was an amazing mix of Jazz and classical Indian genres: "Shakti", "A Handful of Beauty" and "Natural Elements".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38RqK5GRhTI&list=OLAK5uy_kI4f7B6ucgN3izogXg0qWbuQFxmozmPOg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ3l_ml07Go&list=OLAK5uy_kmNvcwTDOV6zENZdZeqMTf1pDveEwdEcM

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=shakti+natrual+elemsnts

8) Later acoustic trios: "Live at Royal festival Hall" and "Que Alegria"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuCDnUv3Ifw&list=PL9OZb2I0bFecdKWW6jytb8g_ht_Zqm1ay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHJjiIxLBNk&list=PL9OZb2I0bFeenX949tqsP4nCroUxodaBr

There are many, many other recordings to explore but this is a good cross section. 

Also check out Larry Coryell, Philip Catherine, Al DiMeola, John Abercrombie, Bill Connors, Ralph Towner (among others!) 

@pjw81563 

I haven't owned "Electric Guitarist" or "Electric Dreams" since I got rid of all my vinyl in the early 90's. I think it's time to bring them back into the collection! 

@curiousjim

The one track off Santana’s "Welcome" : "Flame Sky" , the link to which I’ve already posted.

Their co-led "Love Devotion and Surrender" album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmIaubt4NWY&list=OLAK5uy_lEtxpyVbQXeGJ45TzyAcSxBg1DjfMh7go

Santana guested on one track on Johnny Mac’s "Electric Guitarist":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmIaubt4NWY&list=OLAK5uy_lEtxpyVbQXeGJ45TzyAcSxBg1DjfMh7go

He has indeed covered a lot of ground. Seems many people gravitate to Mahavishnu, the Miles stuff and the acoustic trio w/ DiMeola and DeLucia but there is much more to explore.

My overall favorite is probably "Extrapolation", which is emphatically a Jazz album, rather than Fusion. Read the review in the Penguin Guide. McLaughlin played an acoustic with a pick-up, as he also did on "In A Silent Way".

I believe Santana and McLaughlin put out a live DVD from Montreux...

OK, I  found this: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0KcWyZ8II0

I think you probably have enough to keep you busy for awhile!

@alexatpos

’Fusion’ is not my thing

I actually own very few Fusion CDs.

The difference I find with McLaughlin is his distinctive compositional sense which I very much happen to enjoy.

If you like that track "Django" , then perhaps you will like this ("New York On My Mind" from "Electric Guitarist"): 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOHFqkQIgMU&list=OLAK5uy_lkVyvWMUxcnJCYFH5S3Q3hwDgEKx-TxeI&index=1

I'm curious: what’s the difference, to you, between Jazz played on electric instruments and Fusion?

@alexatpos 

The structure of compositions, timing, duration of solo parts, the overall ’sound’ I find very hard to listen too. Again, speaking in general, but I did not find any music from that time that I like (not even the album I have posted above)

Ah, OK -- I misunderstood. I thought you'd posted the link to that track as an example of one you liked on the J. McLaughlin record. Sorry about that! At any rate, it seems you are very clear about what you do not like when it comes to Fusion.

Anything that uses synths is pretty much out for me -- Fender Rhodes, I'm OK with. So, for example  the first two RTF albums, with Flora Purim, Airto, S. Clarke and Joe Farrell, I like. I don't know if this is actually Fusion -- more like electric Latinized Jazz. 

I can definitely relate to "becoming more and more exclusive". 

@mahgister

Thanks!

I will have to buy this one, although it’s out of print and on a French label.

I haven’t bought any CDs from Europe since before the pandemic.

What are the other nine in your top ten?????

@inna

Seems kind of subdued for McLaughlin...

I’m stunned by the depth of the guitar in the photo. I’m used to dreadnoughts but can’t imagine that one with those dimensions would be very comfortable to play!

After listening to the one you posted, this one came up: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05D34dxQ79M

For example the "fusion" of Bach with jazz by some Jazzman...Or the encounter between Ali Akbar Khan and a jazzman... They are more musical encounter event  and interesting , more than the development of "a new fusion genre" as such  ... the event will not be repeated on a long term creating a new language replacing the two which fusionned for an album..

I once attended a concert that featured Ravi Shankar with Bud Shank, Dennis Budimir and various other LA Jazz players but was not that impressed. To me it sounded like two traditions moving in parallel. 

On the other hand, I very much enjoy the Indo-Jazz "fusion" of Shakti, which seems to me more Indian than Jazz, overall. John McLaughlin seriously studied the Vina. In fact, he said he was falling in love with it to such an extent that at one point he had to ask himself whether he wanted to make it his main instrument and give up guitar. He's also  studied the Indian system of keeping time or Tala. So, he's done much more than just  "dipping his toe" into Indian music.  

My parents had some recordings by flautist Jean Pierre Rampal and Andre Previn  that attempted to fuse Classical with Jazz but I never cared for them. It was all too polite and safe. 

Vocalist Savina Yanatyou has some recordings on ECM that attempt to bridge Jazz with traditional middle eastern music. I like them but they don't sound very jazzy to me. Oudist Anouar Brahem has attempted something similar with his ECM releases. 

I'm left with the impression that a true fusion is rare. Ironically, the fusion of Rock and Jazz may be the most successful to date, even if some of us don't find it that compelling. A lot of Fusion records sold during the genre's heyday, for whatever that's worth. 

@pjw81563 

I saw RTF live on the "Romantic Warrior" tour and caught the S. Clarke Band a couple times in the mid 70's. That's it for me...

@pjw81563

RE: RTF live-- I’m a few years older than you (67) and my first exposure to anything connected to Jazz was in 1972, when I first heard "The Inner Mounting Flame". The first track I heard was, if I remember correctly, "The Dance of Maya", which definitely blew my mind. But it didn’t inspire me to explore Jazz. That began about five years later and once started, pretty much snowballed. I wish I could find another genre to explore that stimulated me as much as my exploration of Jazz but I don’t think it’s gonna happen, at this point.

I heard the Heath Brothers (all three) when they still had Stanley Cowell on piano and have a few Jimmy Heath cds in my collection.

@ho249 

Excellent examples!.

I wasn't aware M. Waldron ever recorded for ECM nor was I familiar with the Carla Bley record. Will check them out. 

@curiousjim

My first 10 years of exploring Jazz occurred when I had little concern about SQ. ECM’s production did catch my attention to some degree, but I was hooked on the music long before I had the financial means to focus seriously on sound. So, I’m not a great resource in this regard.

Don't overlook the Milestone/Fantasy/Riverside/OJC labels. SQ is variable but RVG did some of their recordings. Others done at Reeves Sound Studios and those produced by Helen Keane generally have good sound. You may find this helpful:

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/best-sounding-ojcs-original-jazz-classics-fantasy-prestige-riverside-contemporary.124118/

Also, of course, there’s Impulse! I searched but didn’t find an equivalent list for this label.

@alexatpos 

Thanks for the suggestion!

My Aqua DAC has a polarity switch - I assume this will work.  

I was surprised to see other well-known labels on that list. 

@acman3 

Thanks. I'll check them out.

@pjw81563 

The Japanese have displayed a similar attitude toward American Bluesmen touring over there.

@pjw81563

Tina Brooks was a great tenor and also a very good composer.

I’m not a sax player so I’m not going to make any claims as to who was "better", technically. Nor do I possess your deep knowledge of Jazz. Nevertheless, I find "Soul Station", "Roll Call" and "Workout" much more stimulating than any of Brook’s recordings. Ditto Ervin’s "Freedom Book" ,"Space Book", "That’s It", etc.

But, I also prefer Shorter, Henderson, McLean and Gordon to Coltrane, Rollins, Bird and Webster, so what do I know? Simply what moves me, I guess -- no more.

@curiousjim 

I get it. I hope you didn't get the impression I'm suggesting T. Brooks isn't a worthy topic for discussion. 

When Blue Note first came out with the CD reissues of his recordings on that label, I got the sense it was a really big deal -- that T.B. was some sort of neglected genius, based on the labels PR. So, perhaps my expectations were simply too high. I don't harbor a dislike for him -- it's just that there are other sax players who I find much more engaging. 

@pjw81563

My observations are based on my subjective personal musical tastes as a "knowledgeable listener" and not a musician. When @frogman , himself a musicians peer, who I’m sure has countless musician peers as friends in the same line of work states that the musicians consensus of the best tenor players is Coltrane, Rollins and Henderson in that order he is not saying that we should all accept that as the "written law" and forgo others as second rate imposters.

Thanks for your clarifying remarks. 

@mahgister 

That is indeed a lovely pairing!

@bpoletti 

I don't know how long I could endure being limited to just one artist but if we are talking Jazz, then Wayne Shorter would be the one I'd choose. 

@ho249

Some here might be interested in this, from the bandcamp page, regarding the label:

"Red Hook Records is a new label launched in 2020 by former ECM producer Sun Chung. It aims to dissolve musical boundaries through the interweaving of musical genres and the exploration of intercultural collaborations".

A short lived "Jazz Super Group" V.S.O.P

I recall it being a big deal, back in the 70’s, when that group emerged. I hadn’t yet heard those guys’ recordings with Miles, so it was all new to me. 

@curiousjim 

Between his work as a leader, with Miles, Blakey and Weather Report, there’s a lot to choose from and it’s hard to go wrong!

@curiousjim 

If you haven’t yet heard his first Blue Note "Night Dreamer", why not begin there?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mJS8HXbYn4&list=OLAK5uy_mAu9NiVToftZRqogZrSMeqo_FN3v5-hu0

Or for something completely different:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G85Qa0cnKRk&list=PLHsZtZLpiZPfHDJJBQf5irTiY9lXYCz0E

That "haunting" quality could also be attributed to the soulfulness of his playing! 

As someone once said "Just because the Blues is simple doesn’t mean it’s easy". Amen to that. The simplicity of the structure places an enormous weight on the skill of the improvisor. And by skill, I mean not only technique but the ability to tell a compelling human story with just a few notes. 

@ho249 

There are three releases by this group listed in the Penguin Guide and all are  highly rated with the one titled "Free Fall" receiving the highest possible "crown" rating. 

I'd actually never listened to them, before. I like the sound as well, but given the sparse instrumentation and lack of significant variation of tempos, can't help but wonder whether it would get a bit monotonous over the course of an entire album. I guess it would fit a certain mood. Well worth checking out, though. Creed Taylor, eh? Who would've thunk? 

@pjw81563 

your quoted description of that album can be applied to a lot of the ECM releases. Some like that dull "mood music" I for one can't stand it.

The above wasn't exactly a detailed description of what you like/don't like, so I'm confused by your comment about what you made "clear".  

@curiousjim 

Is "Soulville" one of the eleven? 

@pjw81563 

While I'll never qualify as an ECM fan boy, I do enjoy a select few releases on that label.

It's not all on the side of the spectrum you describe. For example check out albums by Dave Holland and those by Jack DeJohnette, if you are curious. There are far more knowledgeable ECM fans who may chime in.

Not trying to "convert" you, though. Each of us likes what we like. Nothing wrong with that.

I forgot Kenny Wheeler!  

ECM has different branches or streams. It’s quite possible to enjoy one branch and not another...

@pjw81563

I thought "dull mood music" pretty clear. But I can add more adjectives.

Boring, sleep inducing, uninspired "guitar twiddling" background music for calls on hold, elevator music, dentist office music.

Yes -- the language itself is undeniably clear. However, exactly which ECM albums might qualify for these adjectives is, to some degree, open to interpretation. While I’ve certainly heard music on this label that, from my perspective, fits such a description, I don’t know you well enough to presume which ECM albums fit this category within the context of your taste. That's all I was getting at. 

@acman3 

Is that on ECM? I've lost track of when he started releasing music on his own label.

There are at least two D. H. Big Band releases. 

I caught that group live Yoshi's but actually prefer his Octet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ml9D7Hlf9I

In any event, it's hard to go wrong with D. Holland!  

Here's a link to his discography from his website;

https://daveholland.com/discography/

@acman3

I was privileged to experience the D. Holland Quintet live 4 times.

Some of the best live music I’ve heard, ever.

Full video show by the Quintet (w/original drummer Billy Kilson): 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvG8B39_Alc

@curiousjim 

https://www.allmusic.com/artist/horace-parlan-mn0000824879/discography

https://open.spotify.com/artist/413WfGS7CgAHEJD4DtAo3e

@christian21 

My Foolish Heart - Bill Evans Trio

Exquisite

I haven’t been participating in this thread very long so I don’t know if he’s been mentioned but what about Eric Alexander? He and Harold Mabern had a long partnership.

Here’s a taste:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw7GnNxLIlk

And another, less-often-mentioned player -- Bob Berg:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HnIr-u_6pk&list=OLAK5uy_m7ZR6v8ALqCj258qpvfgZJ3cdiwJ17OWo&index=2

@curiousjim 

you're welcome!

@pjw81563 

Thanks for the tenor suggestions. 

Speaking of Belgian guitarists, here's a lovely trio including Philip Catherine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZlasiIvcjU

@curiousjim 

Then check out "In Search of a Dream", next!  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmq_xQ54xBc&list=OLAK5uy_loUe-ayWVGGeCPqxGF5ONiH9ttLzHHUgk