Jazz for aficionados

Rok, I happened to be listening to this album, and I was wondering if you have it "Soul Stirrin" by Benny Green on trombone.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aeVlQtsaFE&list=PL5BC966488E04EF5F



Enjoy the music.

Frogman, I don't think expressing points of disagreement is "throwing rocks", and apparently you don't either. What is "stereotypical" to one person is really "gittin down" to another person; that's because the other person hasn't heard as much jazz, consequently, what's old hat to me, is new to you, and you don't recognize it as "stereotypical" because you haven't heard it before.


Enjoy the music.

Rok, do you remember that scene in the "Blues Brothers" when they played the wrong kind of music in a "Country & Western" joint; that's what would have happened to Grant Green if he had played "Moon River" in a "Hard Bop" establishment in St. Louis; at the places he was accustomed to playing.

The CD was in reference to Benny Green "Soul Stirrin"; if you can get the CD you're one lucky fellow; as a matter of fact, if it's available on CD, I'm going to order one.


Enjoy the music.

Rok, I hate when somebody misses one of my jokes, especially when it's meant for them; consequently I'll have to tell this one over again. The joke was not about the narrator of the event, but the event itself, and I asked you "Who does this remind you of"


                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bF5yqfaYVw



Enjoy the music.

Frogman, you are one of the most interesting individuals I have ever encountered.

You tend to have a very provocative style as demonstrated by your unnecessary reference to me in a discussion that I had no part in; and your admonition that I "not post that CC is fiction". Why do you make the assumption that I would?

Frogman, you thought I confused "Like Young" as classical music in a post that was meant for "Learsfool", plus you understood that I thought "Santana" was fusion in a post that wasn't meant for you. I thought I would head you off at the pass, (so to speak) in regard to CC.

"Stereotypical" can have a number of different meanings depending on who's using it and how it's used. When I use it I'm referring to jazz "cliches" that have been used over and over again. Since you are a musician, you should be able to recognize them better than me.

Presuming that I've heard more jazz than you is possibly a bit of self flattery, but it would depend on our age differences and how much we listen to jazz. Since you also listen to classical, we have to eliminate that portion of your time. In regard to all the different chronology of jazz, I'm guilty, but since I spend more time, I'll call it a wash.

While this is much to do about nothing, it's been a dull boring day anyway.



Enjoy the music.

How about Miles aunt Corrine .


Enjoy the music.

Rok, was the Sonny Clark set in St. Louis, MO.?

I had to pay $35. for the vinyl record because it wasn't on CD, so think how lucky you are if you can get it on CD; I think it's boss, and I certainly can't count the times I've heard it; which means it can stand repeated listening, however, if you think otherwise.....


Enjoy the music.

I can hear a musical phrase, and when I hear it again, recognize it, but I can't tell where I heard it the first time. Another thing is when a musician is "clinical", his music doesn't flow; I think that's the "Juilliard" effect. When people have been taught precisely how to do something, that's the way they do it; maybe classical music works in that fashion, but not jazz.

I have observed that when a musician has had little formal musical education, but somehow he's getting his musical message across, you only hear the part of his playing that reveals a lack of formal training.

When a person goes from one extreme (a degree from Juilliard) to the other extreme, which would be no formal training but has, what I can only identify as God given talent; in jazz, it's quite possible that the person with natural talent, to sound so much better than the person with the degree from Juilliard; especially if they're playing extemporaneous hard bop.

I notice you like to use the expression of "nuts and bolts" to indicate formal training, and musicians who rely on formal training sound mechanical; hence, your expression of "nuts and bolts" is quite appropriate.



Enjoy the music.

Learsfool,  do you come out depending on the phases of the moon, or is it the full moon; you always come out so unexpectedly, just like the wolfman in those horror movies.  You scare the daylights out of me popping out like that.  Give me a little warning next time.


Enjoy the music.

Duke Ellington "Thanks For The Beautiful Land On The Delta" certainly had the spirit of "Nawlins" and the Duke. I went through basic training with a guy named "Petre" from "Nawlins"; he taught me the proper pronunciation of his city; he was quite a character.  I'm sure he would have enjoyed everything you've posted immensely.


Enjoy the music.

Has the final obituary been read for "fusion", or is it coming back again?

I wish I had something good to say about fusion. If somebody can find something good to say about my bright yellow double knit low waist bell bottomed trousers, I'll find something good to say about fusion. They both were current at about the same time.

Somehow, I'm slightly disoriented, and I think It's a result of too much fusion; that art work on the album covers is so discombobulating, plus all that space music; where do you think "Hymn To The Seventh Galaxy" came from?

Fusion is surrealistic art, put to music, and when combined with intoxicants, is designed to send one to the farthest reaches of the seventh galaxy, all the way out past Orion number 9.; that's what it was good for.

Now that we're back down to earth, where do we go from here?



Enjoy the music.

I'm in a "Don Cherry" mood; his music is transitional, it's the stop over you have to make before getting back to solid terra firma, down to earth jazz.


                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRqxQhF4LX8


                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNXePvT5H0s


              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp5mZxkeV1c




Enjoy the music.

Since everyone seems to be in a Chick Corea mood; how about "My Spanish Heart".


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLR1Un97Myg


Enjoy the music.

Ditto on that Rok; you noticed how hard he's been working to keep this beast alive. It ain't dead until he gives it the final rites.


Enjoy the music

Yeah Rok, I liked that impersonation of Monk, it brought back memories of him in Nica's book.

Right now I'm listening to Chick Corea's "My Spanish Heart"; that was some beautiful music; once he dumped that fusion, he never went back, and I'm going to follow in his footsteps. I can see no difference in "fusion" and my bright yellow double knit, low waist, 2 inch thick cuffs, bell bottom trousers. (they would be nice if you were to form a group called "The Clown Posse")

Apparently the final obituary has not been read for this fusion beast, although this is the only place it's still alive; what does it take to kill it. Do you know where we can get some silver bullets?



Enjoy the music.

Acman, I still have that LP, bought it new when it came out; that music is related to Tibetan Buddhism. I liked the LP so much that I put it on my computer play list and never bought the CD.


Enjoy the music.

Frogman, why didn't you put my bright yellow doubled knit bell bottomed slacks with the low waist and 2 inch cuffs in your post; I'm sure they fit somewhere.

As I stated before, I no longer make conscious decisions in regard to music, I trust that to my inner soul, so if it doesn't like the music, don't blame me, blame my inner soul. It also told me that "My Spanish Heart" is not the fusion that you have been presenting. The word "fusion" can be used to represent so many different combinations that it's meaning is abstract, vague, and non definitive. Fusion in regard to "My Spanish Heart" could be the fusion of jazz and Spanish music. Fusion that we have been listening to is electronic space music.

Since I owned those bright yellow double knit bell bottomed trousers with (correction) the 3 inch cuffs, I'm sure I had a good reason for buying them, just as I own all these fusion LP's, I'm sure I had a good reason for buying them as well; but at the moment whatever that reason was, it eludes me.

I can not separate those trouser and "Romantic Warrior" they both belong to a time in the past that I can no longer relate to. Those fusion records have not been converted to CD's, nor were they down loaded to the play list like all my favorite records.

The facts speak for themselves, now do you want me to lie and tell how much I like fusion in order to agree with your obsession with fusion?



Enjoy the music.  

Acman, you can not add or subtract anything from your past. In regard to music, I never make a conscious decision; what I'm saying is, I hear with my inner ear, my soul; and if the music resonates, I buy it; if it doesn't, I leave it be; it's just that simple.

I don't view music the same way I view food, like this is healthy and that's not. I don't make any conscious decision at all; it's yes or no made by my inner ear.



Enjoy the music.

Rok, the most rewarding foray into new music was Mary Lou Willliams, and to think, I did not have one single record of hers in my collection; that would have been a tragic oversight of mine, if we had not gone exploring.

I always "assumed"; there's that word that makes an ass out of you and me; that her music was old, and related to a genre of jazz that (may the jazz Gods forgive me) I could live without; but the truth was so far removed from my assumption, that I enjoy her music more than anyone else in my collection.

Her music is so down to earth and easy to listen to. I don't think we're ever going to be so fortunate again, but we can't go anywhere until Frogman performs the final rites over the "Fusion beast". Although it wouldn't hurt to think about where we go next.

What happened after "Fusion"? Grover Washington was hot, so was "Spyro Gyro". here's "Morning Dance" in case you've forgotten.


              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVDZ5UY_oDw



Just speculating on what's next.




Enjoy the music.

This is a tune that really impressed me;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dnIBKw4d84


Maybe we start at a given point in time, (past fusion) and everybody select favorite tunes for that year, just a thought.



Enjoy the music.

I retract my last post because that would be equivalent to telling a scientist, that if he can not come up with something equivalent to Einstein's famous formulas, he's a flop.


Enjoy the music.

Maybe this will help to establish the 77 time frame


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrzxW0rsD1Q


Enjoy the music

This is a record that's on my play list right today. I bought it new and never got the CD, don't even know if it's on CD. I never got enough of this record. It came out in 77.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buFUP2LvK2s




Enjoy the music.

Frogman, as far as I am concerned; and I don't mean for it to be offensive, but it's real. I preface this statement with the big "I", meaning one person, and one person only.

With all the musical knowledge you and Learsfool have combined, if you can not put it together to make a sound equivalent to this, it's moot.



            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bzgyO6ndjo


Now I know Learsfool is going to tell me he's got students who can produce music equivalent to this, so I'll excuse him.

The bottom line is the music, not the nuts and bolts.



Enjoy the music.

Rok, so called "bashers" of Wynton Marsalis never said he couldn't blow the trumpet; he could arguably be the best, but when he's confronted with a blank sheet of paper, and he has to write some jazz notes on it, that's where his weakness shows up.

Although that's never been my favorite genre of jazz, I'm positive Wynton is one of the best.


Enjoy the music.

Randy Weston (born April 6, 1926 in Brooklyn, New York) is an American jazz pianist and composer of Jamaican parentage. He was described by Marian McPartland as "one of the world's great visionary pianists and composers".

Since this is the description Marian McPartland gave Randy Weston, I think his music is a good place to start in my search for new music. I'm going to begin with "Da Blues"


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vinm6KMlFkA


I don't mean the Delta Blues, but that hip New York kind of blues; that's the kind Mary Lou liked; sounds so good to me. Now we go to "African Cookbook".

Music Review by Scott Yanow
When African Cookbook was recorded in 1964, pianist Randy Weston had no luck interesting any label to release the music, so he came out with it independently on his tiny Bakton company. In 1972, Atlantic released the performances. It is surprising that no company in the mid-'60s signed Weston, because "Willie's Tune," from this set, had the potential to catch on, and "Berkshire Blues" is somewhat well-known and the mixture of accessible bop with African rhythms overall is appealing. Trumpeter Ray Copeland was responsible for the arrangements while Weston contributed all but one of the songs. Copeland and the great tenor Booker Ervin have their share of solo space, bassist Vishnu Wood and drummer Lenny McBrowne are fine in support, and on three numbers the percussion of Big Black and Sir Harold Murray are added; Big Black also sings on "Congolese Children." An excellent outing.

Now it's apparent why I know so little about this great artist; he couldn't get anybody to record his music. We gonna see what "African Cookbook" sounds like.


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sda6b_0Kiak


It's getting off to a real good start. "Music soothes the savage beast", and calm's the restless mind. Rok, are you ready to explore Randy?


Enjoy the music.

I have this one, and I wore it out a long time ago. Hugh Masekela straight from the jungle, "Tell em About The Sorcerer". I like his visions of Africa; he tells about crossing the Sahara by camel caravan, and I can visualize humping across the desert on a camel (with a beautiful lady of course) that's the only way to travel if you're going to cross the Sahara.


                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opez_G-VG_w


Here's another one from long ago that he's famous for, "Stimela"; this is supposed to be the best version.


                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyFFCAEWY4w


Enjoy the music.

There are so many versions of "Stimela", I lost count. I just posted that for the newbies. Based on the cover art; how did you ever buy any fusion?

I'm going to pursue Randy Weston until I get to the end of the line. Post your favorites by him.


Enjoy the music.

Acman, I own that one plus quite a few others by Al Di Meola; I don't know why, but they sounded better when a very good friend of mine came over with medicinal herbs for my bad back, although when I get in a nostalgic mood, they still sound pretty good.

This was "Da bomb"; "Visions of The Emerald Green Beyond"


                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CQJd7Y6sO8


You have to listen to this one all the way through, I guarantee it will alter your mood.



Enjoy the music.

Rok, this is my kind of jazz, it resonates with me totally. Frogman never understood how important my bright yellow double knit trousers with the low waist and very wide cuffs were in relation to the music at that same time. I thought those trousers were hot stuff at "that time", and there is a possibility he could have thought the same thing at "that time". I'm certain I thought the fusion he presented was hot stuff at "that time", because I bought it; but now his fusion and my bright yellow, double knit trousers with the low waist and wide cuffs, occupy the same place in my opinion WTF. (maybe his fusion rates higher than my trousers)




Enjoy the music.

Rok, I was going to a class in Chicago with a guy from Bedford Stuyvesant, and when we rode past some of the worst slums in Chicago, he said they looked like the high rent district compared to Bed Sty as he called it. I'm sure he was exaggerating, but we wont know for sure until the Frogman weighs in.


Enjoy the music.

Jzzmusician, you and Frogman are going to have to get together and clarify the definition of "Fusion"; now when you add "any" two different elements you're talking about "fusion", but it took on a different meaning when referring to music. Are you saying this is that "fusion"?

Although I like the music, this "fusion" thing is a little hazy, unless you are talking about the kind of fusion Diz is famous for.



Enjoy the music.

Alex, these times have brought about an epidemic of rough personal problems; so common they are with me, it's how I know I'm alive.

Right now I'm listening to Randy Weston and Cecil Payne; they're so down to earth, this music is smooth and easy, the kind I could spend hours listening to.

The most interesting thing about music is how it takes on a life of it's own each time a different person hears it. While the original creator intended for it to take on a particular meaning, when someone else hears it, the music can take on a different even more interesting meaning than the original creator intended.


Enjoy the music.

Rok, I got Lee Morgan, this collection had many tunes by Lee Morgan that I never heard before, he had jazz in his bones; I've seen one other musician like this, I'm talking about when they play their instrument, jazz comes out, that's the way Lee Morgan is, no matter what he plays, it's quite listenable. I think we both suspected this. If you're looking for all his best tunes, you can bypass this collection.


Enjoy the music.

Rok, I can certainly understand why you have so many CD's by Randy Weston. I can also understand how so much jazz has bypassed me in St. Louis. The only time I was really up to date was in the 50's when all those jazz giants were still alive and the record stores had all their music.

As time went by New York was one of the few places that kept up with the top jazz musicians; St. Louis was a blues town.

Now that we have so many different ways of discovering the top jazz musicians that we missed, I don't have the money or the time to spend on fusion; nothing personal Frogman.



Enjoy the music.

Jzzmusician, I have no problem with that, but I'm curious to hear what Frogman has to say about you stealing his word "Fusion".

I'LL have to add that one to my collection.


Enjoy the music.

Rok, this is the ultimate "Miriam Makeba". I have LP, don't think it's available in CD, but I haven't searched. It was recorded in 1960 when her voice was young and fresh.


        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miriam_Makeba_(album)


Enjoy the music

Frogman, as sure as the Sun rises in the East and sets in the West, I was just that sure you're post would be "contrary" to mine. The word "fusion" as you have been using it, has absolutely nothing to do with "Machito and Diz" and you know it. Everybody who has been following your posts on fusion, knows precisely what the word "fusion" means according to the Frogman.

Great clip jzzmusician; and your commentary is exactly right. Machito and his orchestra were one of the greatest of the Latin bands; and, of course, Dizzy is a great fit. (a fit to "Frogman's" fusion?) Frogman, your fusion is a "shape shifter".

Call him out Rok, you know and I know Diz got zip to do with Frogman's fusion.

Frogman, this post and every post you write lately is Orpheus "Contrarian". Notice how carefully worded this post in regard to Hugh Masekela is; Rok has already mentioned the fluglehorn. Now notice how Frogman throws in "Greatest ever", when I was referring to Masekela's versions of his own tune "Stimela".
That's not even my comment, it's someone else's comment in regard to Masekela's different versions of "Stimela". What the holy smoly does Barry White have to do with "Stimela", I don't get that one Frogman, could you expound, or expand, whichever you choose.

Last, but not at all least, you always jump in on my post meant for someone else, and misinterpret the post. How can you expect to understand a post, that's not even meant for you, and complain because I didn't write the post in a fashion, that you "Frogman" could understand.



Enjoy the music.

Rok, explain to me the Barry White, Hugh Masekela connection.

Where's Learsfool, calling Learsfool (he's in the phonebooth putting on his cape) calling Learsfool. He'll be to the rescue shortly.

"O-10, cut it out" Frogman, you have gotten so ridiculous it's absurd with this one word "Fusion" except when you thought I was referring to "Santana" as being fusion, then you corrected me, when the post was directed at Rok, and then you got it all wrong, and corrected me again because you didn't think I worded it right. That's 3 times you have intercepted a post meant for someone else, and complained about the way I worded a post not even meant for you. You've got an "Orpheus Complex" Frogman, I think you seek professional help before it gets worse.


Enjoy the music.

Rok, you and Frogman both go get lost in the coalmine 

Rok, you and Frogman serve as good examples of a society gone to shit; how can anybody find humor in "Apartied" or the "Katrina Aftermath"; it takes too sick puppies, that's all I can say.


Enjoy the slime.

Rok, I'm going to write my swan song for you. This can be corroborated on page 129 05-19-2016 12:11 AM

Sunday, August 28.
APPROXIMATELY 30,000 EVACUEES GATHER AT SUPERDOME WITH ROUGHLY 36 HOURS WORTH OF FOOD [Times-Picayune]


Monday, August 29
— KATRINA MAKES LANDFALL AS A CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE [CNN]

7:30 AM CDT — BUSH ADMINISTRATION NOTIFIED OF THE LEVEE BREACH: The administration finds out that a levee in New Orleans was breached. On this day, 28 “government agencies, from local Louisiana parishes to the White House, [reported that] that New Orleans levees” were breached. [AP]

11:13 AM CDT – WHITE HOUSE CIRCULATES INTERNAL MEMO ABOUT LEVEE BREACH: “Flooding is significant throughout the region and a levee in New Orleans has reportedly been breached sending 6-8 feet of water throughout the 9th ward area of the city.” [AP]

The White House was notified that 6 to 8 feet of water was surging throughout the 9th ward in New Orleans. The Governor of Louisiana requested help from the White House and Bush went to bed without responding.


"I never knew the political chain of RESPONSIBILITY ran directly from the 9th ward to the white House."


That was Rok's response; people are drowning in the 9th ward from a natural disaster, and Rok doesn't think the president has any responsibility, even after the Governor of the state has requested help.

Could it be because the people in the ninth ward are BLACK? That the president doesn't have any responsibility for them? Living in New Orleans they ought to know how to swim, because it's below sea level is the inference of one of Rok's statements.

Eight months before "Katrina", this is what was sent half way around the world.

           
        http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/135288/amc-aircraft-people-support-tsunami-r....



Am I suppose to close my eyes to the clear indication of what this series of actions says?



          https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392


This is a little quotation about when they came for the Jews I did not speak, and when they came for me, there was no one left to speak. When the worst happens where you live, there may be no one left to complain about not getting the necessary help you are entitled to as a citizen of The United States Of America.

Most people are smug in the consolation that their white skins will save them from anything like the people in the ninth ward suffered, but what's saving so many with white skins from poverty?



Enjoy the music.

"Mingus at Antibes" is one fantastic album; I would have said that it's impossible for any "Wednesday Night Prayer Meeting" to be better than the original, but here it is. Who ever first posted this gets "The aficionado 5 star award".


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OCrWScxtmA



Mingus at Antibes was originally issued by BYG Records under the title Charles Mingus Live With Eric Dolphy in Japan in 1974. It was recorded at a live 1960 performance at the Jazz à Juan festival at Juan-les-Pins by jazz bassist and composer Charles Mingus; and was re-released by Atlantic Records in more complete form as a double album with the title Mingus In Antibes in the United States in 1976.

The album captures a performance at Jazz à Juan, and features some of Mingus's then regular musicians in a generally piano-less quintet, though the band is joined by Bud Powell on "I'll Remember April", and Mingus himself plays some piano on "Wednesday Night Prayer Meeting" and "Better Git Hit in Your Soul".


Track Listing;

"Wednesday Night Prayer Meeting" – 11:54 (included on both BYG and Atlantic issues)
"Prayer For Passive Resistance" – 8:06 (included on Atlantic issues only)
"What Love?" – 13:34 (included on Atlantic issues only)
"I'll Remember April" (Gene de Paul) – 13:39 (included on Atlantic issues only)
"Folk Forms I" – 11:08 (included on both BYG and Atlantic issues)
"Better Git Hit In Your Soul" – 11:00 (included on both BYG and Atlantic issues)


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcDLFXoFuOk




Charles Mingus – bass, piano (on tracks 1 and 6)
Ted Curson – trumpet
Eric Dolphy – alto saxophone, bass clarinet (on track 3)
Booker Ervin – tenor saxophone (except on track 3)
Dannie Richmond – drums
Bud Powell – piano (on track 4)
 


The different personnel take these originals to a higher level with even more energy; this will be added to my collection ASAP

****I think it’s possible, in the middle of playing improvised music, to play a few notes that have been played before in the same order in another popular tune. Intention would depend on the length of the passage played. A few notes might be an unintentional, subconscious ’quote’, too many notes, and you are playing Mona Lisa.****

I vowed not to return to this thread, but merely to observe. There is no way I could pass this up, especially after Rok made one of the most reasoned and true statements of his career, and this is your response.

"Sorry, way off base. If you care to have reasonable and intelligent
dialogue about this subject let me know."

When "Bird", the worlds greatest improviser ever, quite often threw in a few notes from some well known popular song, unintentional, or intentional, and you said Rok's statement was unreasonable; just who made you judge, jury, and executioner, of this thread?



Enjoy the music.

This is all about "Doing the Hucklebuck"; take your choice of artist, and find it on "you tube"


    http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/t/thehucklebuck.shtml


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg8GgQojTV4


This is "Bird" doing "Now's The Time"


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryNtmkfeJk4


Notice the similarity between the beginning of "Now's the Time", and "Do The Hucklebuck"


"Wiggle like a snake, waddle like a duck
That's the way you do it when you do the Hucklebuck"

When you sing these lyrics, you'll notice the similarity between these two tunes. This is in regard to Rok and Frogman's debate; how they settle it is up to them, I'm not in it.


Enjoy the music.

Since "Bird" came out with "Now's The Time" before the "Huckle Buck", I believe that determined who copied who; however, maybe those notes were "unconscious".


"Now's the Time" (Parker), a 1945 composition by Charlie Parker.



Enjoy the music

Frogman, while DeJohnette's druming is quite entertaining, I much prefer Chico Hamilton on this tune with the line up of; Chico Hamilton - drums, Buddy Collette - tenor saxophone, alto saxophone, flute, clarinet, Fred Katz - cello, and Jim Hall guitar. What have you to say about this version of that beautiful tune?


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF_Kwdmg1Cg


Enjoy the music.

Frogman, even if the "you tube" was wrong, my statement was about the drummers; this was what the major conversation was about, and you didn't respond to that; you never respond to anything, you just go on and on like "The Energizer Bunny".


Enjoy the music.