Jazz for aficionados

Rok,  I've never been in a baptist church and not seen pictures of Jesus Christ.

Enjoy the music.

Aretha is a professional who was raised in the church, not exactly a fair comparison.

Rok, what albums do you have with Tina Brooks as a side man?

Alex, "For Green as for Brooks, the suppression of income and reputation brought on spiraling misfortunes and reduced him to beggary." This is according to Jack Chambers's WHO KILLED TINA BROOKS?

Many of Grant's recordings were not released during his lifetime. These include McCoy Tyner and Elvin Jones (also part of the Solid group) performing on Matador (also recorded in 1964), and several albums with pianist Sonny Clark. In 1966 Grant left Blue Note and recorded for several other labels, including Verve. From 1967 to 1969 Grant was, for the most part, inactive due to personal problems and the effects of heroin addiction. In 1969 Grant returned with a new funk-influenced band. His recordings from this period include the commercially successful Green is Beautiful and the soundtrack to the film The Final Comedown.

Grant spent much of 1978 in hospital and, against the advice of doctors, went back on the road to earn some money. While in New York to play an engagement at George Benson's Breezin' Lounge, Grant collapsed in his car of a heart attack in New York City on January 31, 1979. He was buried in Greenwood Cemetery in his hometown of St. Louis, Missouri, and was survived by six children. Since Green's demise, his reputation has grown and many compilations of both his earlier (post-bop/straight ahead and soul jazz) and later (funkier/dancefloor jazz) periods, exist.



Enjoy the music.

Frogman, it was over yesterday, but you brought it back up again today, if, woulda, coulda, shoulda, but it's too late for that, now they are drug addicts.
My question is "Do we lock them up, and throw away the key", or what?

Thanks Rok, if I have those I'll put them on my play list


Enjoy the music.

Acman, There's a lot of truth in what you said about this generational thing in regard to hearing new music, but now I've discovered there's a Joker in the deck; let me explain.

I had been wandering why I didn't have some of Grant Green's records, and it's because they were not released at the time they were recorded. Now I've got to find Tina Brooks recordings, this keeps me looking backward as opposed to forward.


Enjoy the music.

Frogman, heroin is cheaper than marijuana.  How can I get off this subject when you make dumb statements, although I know you are a very smart person; politicians do that all the time.

Rok you would do much better no responding at all.

Frogman, I have never made so many mistakes on so few posts. What do you make of that?

It appears to me; "There are certain things we are not supposed to know, and we don't care if you rent a sky writer and paste every detail across the sky, we still won't know it because we're not supposed to know it".

It's orpheus's fault, he told us their was a world wide heroin epidemic, and he also told us that heroin comes from AFGHANISTAN, but we didn't believe him. He also told us that heroin is cheaper than a six pack, and we know that can't be true.

But most importantly we didn't connect the dots in regard to AFGHANISTAN, and heroin.

Never get out of the boat! Never get out of the boat! Never change the subject! Never change the subject! Henceforth and forevermore, I will never again change the subject; the subject is jazz.

"Grant's First Stand" is the album I would like to bring to your attention. The title of this album is self explanatory; it's Grant Green's first album as leader.
The personnel are: Grant Green, guitar; Baby Face Willette, organ; and Ben Dixon, drums.

The Allmusic review by Steve Huey awarded the album 4½ stars and stated "Grant's First Stand still ranks as one of his greatest pure soul-jazz outings, a set of killer grooves laid down by a hard-swinging organ trio".

"Miss Ann's Tempo" is a fast paced number, and if he were alive, I would ask him if he had Miss Ann, who was a waitress at a popular restaurant in St. Louis at that time, in mind when he wrote that.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPvVwUFd7aw

Here's a number that will help you understand why that thought came to mind;

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB5E97dQU5k

Although I like all of the cuts, "Lullaby Of The Leaves" is my favorite.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hxCP_LEniw


Enjoy the music.

   

Frogman, smoke this in your pipe;



              https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/08/27/why-a-bag-of-heroin-costs-less-than...



      http://publicsource.org/from-the-source/heroin-barely-more-expensive-than-cigarettes#.VvScetIrK1s







             

Alex, I've been looking at, listening to, and reading all of your fine contributions; thanks.


Enjoy the music.

Rok, I allocated some space in the basement for a "dope cellar" just in case it gets any cheaper.

I have all those albums including several versions of "Soulful Strut", but that one is the best. I caught a record sale, and bought a number of Gabor Szabo LP's.


Enjoy the music.

Acman, I absorbed every word of that Paul Desmond, Charley Parker interview.


Enjoy the music.

Frogman, now that you done smoked that, try this;



            http://mediaroots.org/opium-what-afghanistan-is-really-about/

Taj Mahal, Senor Blues; this is another interesting version of Horace Silver's most famous tune.


                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb5QWGLZxZM



Enjoy the music.

I thought the baritone really set Randy Weston's "Little Niles" apart from most other versions. Kenny Barron's version comes closer to Randy Weston's,and since I like them both, it's hard to choose one over the other; Kenny Barron's piano work makes his very interesting.

That tune highlights Abbey's voice to a greater extent than "Little Niles", and I think I have that album.

This definitely one of my favorite tunes "Delilah". I think I have it by just about everybody that has one, including Nat Cole; this one is by Milt Jackson and Wes Montgomery.




              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPBqjfA6Kcw



Enjoy the music

"Little Niles" by Randy Weston, is one of the more interesting versions of that tune.



            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovk5OSa8PrU



Here's another version by Abbey Lincoln, which do you like the best? I can certainly see why Max Roach married Abbey Lincoln; I don't know if I've ever seen a picture of her that young.



            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxlYJSlVUFk



Enjoy the music


           

                       HAPPY EASTER !

Rok, they're so close, that if you leave the words out of some blues, with minor modification, it will be jazz.


Enjoy the music.

That shows you got good taste. Do you have Nancy and George Shearing?



          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8u_S7H8W4A


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbrVv2AggjE



Nancy is too beautiful for words.



Enjoy the music.

This is a very special "Round Midnight", it's the one before Wes became famous; if you notice it has a different sound. This is my favorite.


                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1Xozvcf0FA



Enjoy the music.

In Re to Tsuyoshi Yamamoto and the "blues"; after someone hears the blues, and attempts to play the blues, they quite often come up short; that's because one has to "feel" the blues in order to play the blues; otherwise it comes across as an imitation of the blues.

I can only compare that to me preparing a Japanese dish from a recipe in a cook book, and a Japanese chef preparing the same dish; while mine might be acceptable, the chef's would be so much better. Since you're accustomed to eating the same dish prepared by the chef, mine might not even be acceptable.

From a technical point of view, Mr. Yamamoto's is quite good I think; but a lot of jazz requires "soul"; that's the indefinable something that separates the best from the rest.

In my humble opinion, Japanese jazz musicians sound best, when they incorporate Japanese soul into American jazz.




Enjoy the music.

Donald Byrd was the most successful jazz artist when it came to different phases or changes, and still maintain fundamentally what I call jazz.

Byrd was best known as one of the only bebop jazz musicians who successfully pioneered the funk and soul genres while simultaneously remaining a jazz artist. As a bandleader, Byrd is also notable for his influential role in the early career of keyboard player and composer Herbie Hancock.

Let's begin with "Fuego". It is an album by Byrd recorded in 1959 and released on the Blue Note label in 1960 as BLP 4026, featuring Byrd with Jackie McLean, Duke Pearson, Doug Watkins and Lex Humphries. The Allmusic review by Michael G. Nastos awarded the album 4 stars; "Hard Bop" is the core of this music.

A New Perspective is a 1964 album by jazz trumpeter Donald Byrd released on the Blue Note label as BLP 4124 and BST 84124. The performances are mainly in a hard bop style, but the recording also features a gospel choir.

rack listing
"Elijah" (Byrd) - 9:21
"Beast of Burden" (Byrd) - 10:07
"Cristo Redentor" (Duke Pearson) - 5:43
"The Black Disciple" (Byrd) - 8:12
"Chant" (Pearson) - 7:31
Personnel
Donald Byrd – trumpet
Hank Mobley – tenor saxophone
Herbie Hancock – piano
Kenny Burrell – guitar
Donald Best – vibraphone, vocals
Butch Warren – bass
Lex Humphries – drums
Duke Pearson – arranger

Donald Byrd's music went through so many phases and changes, that the only way to cover them all, is to discuss one or two of them at a time. for now we are going into hard bop, and Byrd with voices, which is the album "A New Perspective". Next we'll go into the funk and soul phases.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0LDIxfHXTI&list=PLB25D698B474055D9


Although we went through Byrd once before, I don't think "you tube" was as complete then. Now we can investigate thoroughly, and might even discover a new album we can add to our collection. The search for new music is what motivates me.

When we use this method for investigation, we'll know for certain that we have everything worth having by that particular artist. After Donald Byrd, someone else can submit another artist, and we'll investigate what's available by that artist. New music is our life, it's what makes jazz aficionados tick.




Enjoy the music.

Rok, you got that right, all way's good for a repeat; I never get tired of it.

Since "soul and funk" is the next phase, see what you can find that you like in that category, and I'll do likewise.  We'll reap big rewards going after new music in this fashion.


Enjoy the music.

Jazzcourier, I hope they read your post in regard to saying more with fewer words, or at least "saying something". Right now, I'm suffering from eye strain trying to read their diatribes, and brain drain from trying to figure em out. I believe they are all conspiring to send me to a shrink, but now that a true "Jazz Aficionado" has come along, their efforts will be in vain. You came along at just the right time.


Enjoy the music.

Calling all aficionados:  I'm trying to get organized on this "New music hunt".   This time,  we go through a musician phase by phase, evaluating each change as we go.  Hopefully I have Donald Byrd in order so that we can go year by year, happy listening.
   
Donald Byrd: Low Life
From Fuego (Blue Note, 1959)

I could have started with a song far earlier in Byrd’s career but my point here is to establish his bop/post-bop certifiers with a spry, swinging tune that reminds me of Bobby Timmons best work.

Donald Byrd: Cristo Redentor
From A New Perspective (Blue Note, 1963)

Byrd + gospel choir = sublime. And cinematic, no? Couldn’t you imagine this in some spaghetti western where our hero walks atop a sand dune, the sun setting at his back? Have I been watching too many Leone films?

Also: best cover ever.

Donald Byrd: House of the Rising Sun
From Up With Donald Byrd (Verve, 1964)

The best known song off this album is probably the cover of Herbie Hancock’s “Cantaloupe Island” but thanks to US3, I can’t really bear to listen to it much. I do like this cover of “House of the Rising Sun” though. No only does it draw from the same choral backing that we heard on A New Perspective but you can begin to hear the hints of the coming soul-jazz movement. It’s the small, subtle things in the rhythm that you’ll hear even more so on…

Donald Byrd: Blackjack
From Blackjack (Blue Note, 1967)

And here we are. It’s not upside your dome funky but clearly, it’s working in that vein, especially with the hard hammer of Cedar Walton’s piano. But heck, let’s take it a step further and let the drummer get some.

Donald Byrd: Weasil
From Fancy Free (Blue Note, 1969)

The first thing that strikes you is that Duke Pearson is tickling the Rhodes on here, apparently the first time Byrd allowed an electric piano to roll in. Combine that with the more aggressive breakbeats by drummer Joe Chambers and “Weasil” belongs firmly in the soul-jazz era that’s since been enshrined through comps like Blue Break Beats and Jazz Dance Classics.

Donald Byrd: The Little Rasti
From Ethiopian Knights (Blue Note, 1972)

To me, Ethiopian Knights represents the deepest Byrd got into this era of the soul-jazz sound before moving more towards proto-disco fusion style. Nearly 18 minutes long, nothing “little” about this.

Donald Byrd: Where Are We Going?
From Black Byrd (Blue Note, 1972)

With this album, Byrd minted a smash and established himself as one of the masterminds of a sound that blended jazz, soul, funk and disco. Black Byrd was, in many ways, a total blueprint for the next five years, not just of Byrd’s career, but the direction of jazz and R&B as a whole. For me, I definitely hear some What’s Going On? elements at play but the sheer smoothness of the track also hints at what you’d hear with yacht rock by the late 1970s. It’s all right here.

By the way, I’m going to skip over Street Lady even though it was an important/successful album, yada yada. The only thing I want to say is that the title track is an interesting “throwback” to Byrd’s sound from about five years before. It’s like a retro-hard-bop tune.

Donald Byrd: Wind Parade
From Places and Spaces (Blue Note, 1975)

The Mizell brothers era of Byrd’s career is perhaps his best known to most hip-hop fans given the sheer number of samples that emerged from it. Anyone up on my site should already have “Wind Parade” in heavy rotation but this is one case where I can’t not include it in here. Any song that helps power one of the greatest remixes in hip-hop history deserves that much.

The Blackbyrds: Mysterious Vibes
From Action (Fantasy, 1977)

At some point in the early 1970s Byrd landed a production deal with Fantasy Records and from that, he assembled a group of former Howard University students and they became the Blackbyrds. By the mid 1970s, though Byrd was still recording on his own, he was arguably experiencing more success in producing other groups, especially the Blackbyrds who had a string of hits I’m sure all of you are familiar. “Rock Creek Park” remains a constant staple for any good disco set but I threw in “Mysterious Vibes” here because 1) I like the name and 2) it’s groovy.

The 3 Pieces: Shortnin’ Bread
From Vibes of Truth (Fantasy, 1975)

The 3 Pieces were a short-lived group from the D.C. area that Byrd also produced, albeit not to anywhere near the same success as the Blackbyrds. Pity since the album yielded at least two strong cuts: the jazz dance track above as well as the more mid-tempo crossover track, “Backed Up Against the Wall.”

The Blackbyrds: Wilford’s Gone
From Cornbread, Earl and Me (Fantasy, 1975)

This seems as good a place to close out: the dark, moody, melancholy groove of “Wilford’s Gone” from the soundtrack of Cornbread, Earl and Me. Yet another gem shaped by the hand of Donald Byrd.


Enjoy the music.

Somebody is always asking dumb questions as to why young people are not interested in "High End" audio. We meaning "audiophiles" are so self centered it's not even funny. They don't realize we're as extinct as those creatures in Jurassic Park; only old people with money to burn, and dummies like us, are buying the stuff, which is why they advertise stuff where price is no object.

Just yesterday I managed to repair my Technics reel to reel; other wise it was going to bite the dust. That stuff costs a fortune to get repaired, and only geezers have any use for one; does that mean I'm a geezer; that wasn't suppose to happen to me. I'm sure AARP has found a new word for "Geezer", I notice they never use it.


Enjoy the music.

Rok, I'm hitting pay dirt with the "Byrd". I hope you're doing the same. I "only" choose music that I think is going to be good for a replay. We don't have to take chances like we did for them stinking LP's.

Right now I've got stacks of them suckers that I don't know what to do with. My son says he knows what to do with them. I told him that was my legacy that I'm leaving to him; all of a sudden a sly grin broke out on his face.


Enjoy the music.

On page 112, near the bottom of the page there's a run down on Byrd that can help you decide. I selected "spaces and places" plus black byrd, and I'll have to give the rest of them a listen on "you tube".

The 100 best has sound quality better than my original LP's. No music is better than music with lousy sound quality. That Blue Note edition is a good buy.

Moving in this organized fashion, we wont leave anything behind that we should have bought.


Enjoy the music.

Yo Rok, are you out there? I found 8 classic Albums Donald Byrd $6.52 used, must be something wrong with it, 8 cd's $16.00 new.

Places and spaces, $9.00 new, $5 used; The Definitive Classic Blue note Collection, $17 new $10 used; Black Byrd $8 new, $5 used.

You can check em out, and tell me what you think.

Rok, I decided to post links to what's on page 112, to help us decide. Here's "House of The Rising Sun" from album "up With Donald Byrd"


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oRJpv-SAb4


This Donald Byrd "Weasel" from the LP "Fancy Free".


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_FeSOb-z8Q


Here's "Black Jack" from album of the same name.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSxY4OwV8vg


Donald Byrd: "The Little Rasti" from Etheopian Knights"


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av4j96aEDAA


Donald Byrd: "Where Are We Going" from the LP "Black Byrd"


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTFFt8bimp4


Next we have "Wind Parade" from "spaces and places"


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LKxEs0HewI


This is The Blackbyrds with "Mysterious vibes"


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbcPHhVUspA


Cornbread Earl and me: "Wliford's gone"


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqbVrm2Pejo


This is "The 3 pieces"   "Shortnin Bread"


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pITBIoGm1hQ


Now we can wheel and deal.




Enjoy the music.

Donald Byrd: there is one cut that's an absolute must, and that's "Here Am I".


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CewhwrPi044

Maybe you already have it.


Speaking of Miles; a long time ago when Miles was still alive, I ran into someone who loved him like a brother, and I asked him if he had Miles latest, he looked me straight in the eyes and asked "Have you" I had to laugh because he knew what I thought about the electrifying new Miles.

I don't think Byrd went as far off the reservation as Miles.



Enjoy the music

Rok, I concur on Byrd; everything with Pepper Adams is the best, and I'm sure you'll like it.

When Byrd's trolley first jumped the tracks, I was offended, "How could he do that"? I sold it, then years later decided it wasn't so bad, and now I'm buying some of it back.


Enjoy the music.

Frogman, glad you're back with a most concise post, plus I've posted something you were unaware of; that's a first. (no rib intended)

Roy Hargrove: That is the most energized group I've ever seen; I think they had enough percussionists, those guys really propelled the music. Without a doubt, I will have to add Roy Hargrove to my shopping list.



Enjoy the music.

After I got over the initial shock of Byrds changeover (it only took 20 years) I began to like some of his new music. Once I accepted the fact that it ain't jazz, I listened to it for what it is. While most of this new music is geared to someone much younger than me, I'm not so old that I done forgot what it's like to have wild hormones; that's what "Rock Creek Park" is about.



Enjoy the music.

It's amazing how we think of artists who play flute and sax; for reasons unknown to me, I think of Frank Wes, flute; Bud Shank, flute; Yusef Lateef, flutes of every description. Maybe it's the compositions they play the different instruments in because I can't say I favor one instrument over another, although Frank Wess was beautiful on lush life.



Enjoy the music.

I read about "modal music" in the 60's, and I still don't know or care what it is.
I realize there are people who do care, and that's good, but I don't, now hang me or shoot me.

"Behind the beat or in front of the beat" pertained to a statement about Blakey, and had nothing to do with Frogman. Now that I've written all these posts, I'm sure you can find something else to go on and on about; remember "my friend", the musician who didn't practice; how long did that go on?

Maybe Donald Byrd said all he had to say in the jazz idiom. The Harpers were just OK, and that's because anything less than outstanding, sounds just OK. After listening to jazz all my life, I'm only impressed by something that's outstanding.

Although Donald Byrd produced many outstanding pieces of work over the years in jazz, he felt it was time to change grooves, and while I didn't agree with him at the time, now I understand his motivation and point of view a lot better. As a listener, I feel the need to change grooves from time to time, maybe that's why I can tread lightly into Donald's new groove.

Horace Silver is someone who withstood the test of time and never changed grooves completely; his music stayed somewhere in the broad jazz arena, while borrowing from other cultures from time to time; this is what kept his music fresh. With the approval of the rest of the aficionados, I would like to move on to Horace Silver after we have finished with Donald Byrd.




Enjoy the music.

On "Caravan" and Billy Taylor; "Give the drummer some"; I bet his favorite drummer is Art Blakey. I had to see and hear that twice.

Frogman, you're a musician, I've been to a number of jazz sets with musicians, that's because they always made the major sets. This was at a time when we sat at tables, as opposed to seats in an arena, and I always seemed to be seated at a table with a musician. Yall hear differently; when I got lost, the musician would tell me what was going on, but it was like water off a ducks back; nothing's changed; "Behind the beat, in front of the beat" doesn't seem to make any difference to me. Someone said Art Blakey was always behind the beat; behind the beat, in front of the beat; whatever, I like Art Blakey. Although it's good to know such things if you're a musician.



Enjoy the music.

Along time ago, someone not even on this thread, mentioned that Blakey played behind the beat, and I mentioned it with no thought of Frogman. The real question is why does Frogman always make mountains out of mole hills and think everything I utter pertains to him personally, and why did Frogman go on and on; he does that each and every opportunity he can find. He wrote three long paragraphs about "Behind the beat or in front of the beat". Not only that but he totally misinterpreted what was about nothing, without even a thought of him in mind.

If you got it why did frogman bring it up again?

For that matter why did you bring it up again?

Frogman, Trane lost me in 63, and I'm still lost when he goes into zones known only by him. As I recall McCoy Tyner and Elvin Jones were also lost, and if he could lose them, who am I?

No I'm not indignant, but apparently you are. Whether or not I soak up your bits of knowledge, I still appreciate them for those who feel they're being enlightened, and in the future I will refrain from commenting on them.

Not that it matters, but my selections are made on a purely subjective basis. No one can fathom the human mind; doctors may know about the brain, but the brain is only a storage place for the mind, and I choose to let this infinite computer tell me what I like and don't like; that's what "subjective" thinking is all about.

Let me repeat, "I still appreciate your musical wisdom, for those like Rok, and Acman who benefit from it".

The next artist I'm going to investigate is Horace Silver. Do to the fact that we didn't have computers, or "you tube" I can easily see how we bypassed music that would have been very important to our collections; I've added three albums by Byrd, when I Thought I had everything by him worth having. Who knows how many I'll add by Horace Silver after we investigate his music.

Did you like the way we investigated Donald Byrd's music?




Enjoy the music.

Frogman, maybe this was when when you were "Shadorne" on 08-17-2011. Like I said Frogman, you think everything I utter is about you; you even lay claim to things you didn't say in regard to Blakey's drumming.


shadorne
5,291 posts
08-17-2011 10:53pm
Art plays in front of the beat. He gives it an energetic sound but I can understand Foster_9's view. Many find that the pocket lies slightly behind the beat. In contrast, playing behind the beat gives a more relaxed feel. Some drummers can play both styles with ease and move around in order to create tension and release in the music. Think Elvin Jones.



shadorne


Enjoy the music.

orpheus10 OP
2,724 posts
04-02-2016 8:40pm


A long time ago, someone not even on this thread, mentioned that Blakey played behind the beat, and I mentioned it with no thought of Frogman. The real question is why does Frogman always make mountains out of mole hills and think everything I utter pertains to him personally, and why did Frogman go on and on; he does that each and every opportunity he can find. He wrote three long paragraphs about "Behind the beat or in front of the beat". Not only that but he totally misinterpreted what was about nothing, without even a thought of him in mind.





shadorne
5,291 posts
08-17-2011 10:53pm
Art plays in front of the beat. He gives it an energetic sound but I can understand Foster_9's view. Many find that the pocket lies slightly behind the beat. In contrast, playing behind the beat gives a more relaxed feel. Some drummers can play both styles with ease and move around in order to create tension and release in the music. Think Elvin Jones.

Now that the two posts are juxtaposed, there can be no misinterpretation, although it was Foster_9 who stated that Blakey played behind the beat, and that's what made me think "Behind the beat or in front of the beat, I still like Art Blakey".




Enjoy the music.