Rok, if Silver played a bad tune, I haven't heard it. Although I have a lot of Silver, I never realized how much I don't have before now.
I believe you're going to change the snap judgment you made on "Birds Best Bop". Let me know how good the recording quality is on George Russel.
Listen to "Silver's" The Outlaw, and imagine "Billy the KId" riding hard and fast across the wastelands trying to outrun the posse, while listening.
I heard a long interview done with Horace Silver by a local DJ, and I was amazed at how articulate he was; without a doubt he took more than just music when he went to school, and he could really tell a funny story; this was the best jazz musician interview I've heard.
He told a funny story about his bass player, that I think I told before; about his bass player who was tired of playing "Bing Bong" repetitively. If you don't remember I'll tell it again.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, offhand, I don't remember the comment you made, but I understood where you were coming from; I don't like all of Bird's Bop, but I knew this was very special, and you would enjoy it. Maybe you do have a clear picture; Bird recorded a lot of music with a lot of people, and some days were better than others, that CD said Birds "Best Bop", and that said it all. Here are two guys who have teamed up a lot through the years and they sound good each time, they have a certain chemistry together. There are several here that cover a span of time, I only selected one, and while they've aged, they still seem young musically. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGjMojMh-FMEnjoy the music. |
I piped R & B in Jazzy Groove, into the big rig to enjoy the sonics. I've heard that intro into "Night Life" by Dakota a million and 1 times live by different blues bands, on different tunes, and although it was the same, it still sounded good. "Our Day will Come" made me want to hear "Ruby and The Romantics"; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q1HaofSVu8Enjoy the music. |
I remember that album cover with the bags of beans, I bought that at the BX on Scott AFB in 1960. My favorite cuts are "Sandra's Blues", and "Indians Blues"; that's as good as it gets.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, have you noticed I'm making a lot of mistakes I never used to make? I believe Milt Hinton has identified the reason why. Here's what should have been on my last post, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwc1bTn7Fd8Enjoy the music. |
Rok, I'm glad you posted this, it really gave me something to think about........That was yesterday and I'm still thinking. I'll get back to you when I quit thinking about it.
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"Eumir Deodato" is an interesting musician (I don't know why I think of some kind of big bird everytime I hear first name). While not an icon of jazz, he made some interesting music in the 70's I was listening to and still like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5dLWFb50To https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwMAfSfRbDUThose are my two favorite albums by Dodato, they bring back memories and make for good listening, also when I checked his "bio" it seems he's quite a musician whose been involved with quite a few artists in my collection, and he's still active. Enjoy the music. |
Alex, "Ike Quebec" is the only artist I have everything that is and is not available by. When you listen to Ike, I might be listening to the same thing no matter what you're listening to, and I listen to the one's you submitted a lot.
Correction Alex, I know I have the LP, "Congo Lament"; yes, that same "Easy Living" is on "Congo Lament", and as far as I'm concerned it's one of the best if not "the best".
Enjoy the music.
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"Baby Face Willette", who got his name from looking at least 10 years younger than his chronological age, could make an organ produce frequency extremes and dynamic range higher and wider than anything that could be recorded. But his audience didn't come to hear what he had on record, they came to hear "Bird" on organ, which is how he sounded as he played at lightning speeds, not just notes, but coherent musical phrases. He looked like anything but a baby when he was performing with face and body contorted by the muse that had possessed him. "Now"! I recall sitting at a table with professional drummer "Kenny Rice", when I saw "Trane" go off into the far reaches of the galaxy. I looked at Kenny, eyes closed, a faint smile on his face, head nodding to the music, and I could tell he was right along side Trane on his journey to "Orion 7" or wherever; but they had left me behind; I wasn't left behind when "Face" played. Since "Face" never played live what was on records, I can only try to come close, and it's still a long way from what I heard; "Bird" on "Organ", which is something no equipment made can record; I can only give you what's on record. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNkag9AKgbA&list=PLPOxwexjsUr6B48cS4_SIp4MhU8b4VAn2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2ERGSEyBeM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJm2sTjSY4oEnjoy the music |
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"Manu Dibango", now there's a name I don't believe I've seen on this forum; he's known for "Soul Makasa". Let us go to "Wikipedia" to find out more about Manu Dibango. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2jYjUiulMQ Dibango was born in Douala, Cameroon. His father, Michel Manfred N'Djoké Dibango was a civil servant. The son of a farmer, he met his wife travelling by pirogue to her residence, Douala. A literate woman, she was a fashion designer, running her own small business. Both her ethnicity, the Duala, and his, the Yabassi, viewed this union of different ethnic groups with some disdain. Emmanuel had no siblings, although he had a stepbrother from his father's previous marriage who was four years older than he was. In Cameroon, one's ethnicity is dictated by their fathers, though he wrote in his autobiography, Three Kilos of Coffee, that he has never been able to identify completely with either of parents. Dibango's uncle was the leader of his extended family. Upon his death, Dibango's father refused to take over, as he never fully initiated his son into the Yabassi's customs. Throughout his childhood, Dibango slowly forgot the Yabassi language in favour of the Duala. However, his family did live in the Yabassi encampment on the Yabassi plateau, close to the Wouri River in central Douala. While a child, Dibango attended Protestant church every night for religious education, or nkouaida. He enjoyed studying music there, and reportedly was a fast learner. In 1941, after being educated at his village school, Dibango was accepted into a colonial school, near his home, where he learned French. He admired the teacher, whom he described as "an extraordinary draftsman and painter." In 1944, French president Charles de Gaulle chose this school to perform the welcoming ceremonies upon his arrival in Cameroon. Career He was a member of the seminal Congolese rumba group African Jazz, and has collaborated with many other musicians, including Fania All Stars, Fela Kuti, Herbie Hancock, Bill Laswell, Bernie Worrell, Ladysmith Black Mambazo, King Sunny Adé, Don Cherry, and Sly and Robbie. In 1998 he recorded the album CubAfrica with Cuban artist Eliades Ochoa. In 1973, this was the "kicker" on the jukebox, it got the party started and the hips swinging; I like the album cover too, that style defined 1973. Enjoy the music. |
I thought this was "Trane", he looks like "Trane" from the side view, and they all sound similar to the group I saw; they sound more like "Trane" live, which is what he sounded like on his later records; musicians play freer live than on records, which is a good thing, because what they play live often does not sound good on records. Judging from the comments, somebody else initially made the same mistake. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrX3prSAl1Y There's no doubt about Donald Harrison's intent on this one, and he succeeded beyond his wildest dreams. Enjoy the music. |
Where are you going with this Frogman? If I saw Alvin Jones, McCoy Tyner, and Trane live, it would have been 100% impossible to make that mistake. The statement was an "Oversatement", so exactly where are you going with this? Since you knew it was an "overstatement", where are you going with this?
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Frogman, you're the joke; if you had stayed on this thread, which is the only one where you fit, you would be "hip" enough to follow the inside joke without explanation; but you chose to bounce around. Now you're like the "prodigal son" discontent in any way you turn. Just keep turning and which way is best will come to you.
Don't forget to enjoy the music while you're turning.
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Frogman, I don't know whether or not you call "parody" a joke?
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Currently, when you get past those two, from what I've been able to find, "quality music" is not that common in Africa. There seems to be a common thread running through music all over the globe; I attribute this to the PC. Right now I'm exploring France; this is most interesting, and it's uncommon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZx1Mrt-35kGet back to you when I find "Da bomb". Enjoy the music. |
Frogman when I saw "Trane" he was playing a "Soprano Sax" and this is what the group looked like. The nice part was the fact that it was in a small club and I was no more than 20 feet away from the group. As I recall "My Favorite Things" was over a half hour long, because "Trane" went off into his "private thing" to parts unknown. Now I ask you does that look like any kind of a "Sax"? No, it looks like a clarinet. Envy is eating you alive Frogman because you never saw Trane playing any kind of sax. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kPXw6YaCEYI didn't see Trane in some "monster auditorium" or huge place like this one, but in an intimate night club where I sat at a table with another couple, a professional drummer, and a beautiful sexy lady; it was the kind of setting you dream about. Since you like to check details, the name of the club was "Gino's" in St. Louis. You have been claiming to have heard Trane live since this thread's inception. Now we learn, as I always suspected, that it was, as you say, an "overstatement" (lie). Bottom line: wether he had heard Trane live or not, any true "aficionado" would have been able to tell it was not Trane in the video for a variety of reasons: alto not tenor, rhythm personell, electric guitar player (?!), video quality (way too modern); oh yeah, and a minor detail, the saxophone playing itself is clearly not Trane's. As far as your comment about being "hip", please don't embarrass yourself any more than you already have. Now you're saying my claim to have seen Trane was a lie. I can only say, "Peace be with you Frogman". |
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Rok, that was a highly relevant question in regard to where the "new jazz" was created. When I was traveling a lot, and going to clubs, the music was different everywhere I went. In none of the places would I consider the new music any better, it was all good, just different; Atlanta was different from LA, and Chicago different from St. Louis. Although I've never been to New York, they seem to think what ever originates there has or should set the standard; "It ain't necessarily so." There was even a difference in jazz from E. St. Louis and St. Louis, Mo. The jazz from E. St. Louis was the most individualistic, it was the most "Afrocentric", while jazz from the other side of the river was what you call "jazz jazz"; closer connected to "Bird" and that lineage. Jazz from E. St. Louis had no lineage, which is why when I went to a new lounge and heard a new group, I was floored; they used instruments like the African finger piano, and unusual drums. The only group I know from St. Louis that has recorded and played consistently over the years, that I heard a lot live, was the "Trio Trebien". There is no group I've heard live more times than I've heard these guys. This same tune on my CD sounds much better; while I like everything on the CD, this is my favorite tune. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo1umU82ZAUI don't approach music from an intellectual point of view; Ambrose's music seemed to wander, at times like one band was playing two different tunes. Maybe at another time in a different mood I might like it. Rok, I know your thoughts on later day Trane and Miles. Enjoy the music. |
Rok, I got my CD out, and it's easy for me to see how "Tender Hearted" is your favorite; it has a subtle "Gospel grace" that came from deep within the heart of the artists. Those musicians are well known and loved in this community; "Tender Hearted" was a projection of who they are, as well as the people who they associate with.
When I listened to my CD, it was easy for me to understand Frogman's criticisms; that "youtube" had so much distortion that Jeter's playing louder for contrast and emphasis sounded like banging. Sorry I couldn't find a better "you tube".
Enjoy the music.
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Did I tell yall about seeing Ahmad Jamal at Rick's on North Shore drive in Chicago? My memory ain't what it used to be, or maybe it never was very good, I forget; but at any rate I don't want to tell the same story twice.
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Rok, this is just one of the albums I listen to when I wander off the jazz reservation. The St. Louis main Library is a huge building a city block square, and I don't how tall; they have some of the most amazing old books hundreds of years old. I checked out this one book written buy an anthropologist who lived with the aborigines about a hundred or so years ago, this was when they communicated over long distances telepathically, and they never lived inside any kind of dwelling, including a tent. Any kind of jail sentence was a death sentence; those people had to be able to see the stars, and feel a campfire. "Brolga", music near the end of this CD, sounds closest to music I have that was recorded at a "corroboree"; that's what I play when I go completely native, and get into the "Dreamtime". Listen to this music and travel to the "Dreamtime". https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dr+didg+out+of+the+woods+ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGD7nFKFen8Enjoy the music. |
Frogman and Rok, Miles said the same thing I said about his own music; I've been going through his autobiography trying to find his exact words, but he said he couldn't stand to play that kind of music anymore, the kind him, Bird, and Diz played. As I stated at the beginning, the music was off the "jazz reservation", but was intended to lead to the "aboriginal reservation". If you and Rok had gone on to "Corroboree", and not even stop at the end, but let "you tube" lead you on wherever it took you, then you would have discovered my intent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGD7nFKFen8Enjoy the Corroboree. |
When it came to jazz with an African twist, nobody could do it like "Art Blakey". Every time I see this LP cover, I know what I'm going to hear; the best African drumming in or out of Africa. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu_L5CNlo60&list=PLAFA1557EAD0A6D6DDrumming in Africa was meant to go with dance, they had a different dance for everything, including religious worship and celebration. I had a friend who belonged to Katherine Dunham's dance troupe, and I saw them practice a lot. African drumming and dance go together like ham and eggs, once you get used to them together, you can't have one without the other; "Now that you've brought my ham, where's my eggs," or vice versa. This is my favorite number by my favorite African trumpet player, "Hugh Masekela". What we see here dramatizes "Stimela" in dance, I find it captivating. This choreography is a tribute to Kathryn Dunham". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SuwmE3JM0AHere we have the "authentic drumming" from Haiti. There is a sacred museum of sorts in Haiti where the curator has these sacred drumbeats from Africa that go back before slavery. They are stored in a kind of code; this drumming goes with the dance it's meant to accompany. In order to put the drum code and dance together, he would have to travel with you to Cuba and Brazil for sure, but they have to make a match. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqP0s9MBuoo&list=RDrqP0s9MBuoo#t=7 This dance in Cuba might to the uninitiated might look like flinging around and jumping to the beat, but it's just as structured as any European dance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRNEVAzaX9sI suppose the Cuban dancers come closest to what I saw practiced by the Katherine Dunham dancers. No that's not a mismatch, Katherine was a dance "anthropologist", in addition to being a dance teacher. All of these dances originated in Africa where she studied. What I saw practiced by the Katherine Dunham dancers was better than anything I've seen at the movies or on television when it came to African dance. There was an exhibit with a long film of them practicing at the museum in St. Louis ages ago, and tears came to my eyes when I realized I was young lean and flexible, just like those dancers, when this was being filmed, and I recognized some of the dancers. Enjoy the music. |
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Rok, Harold Land has been with me every since this never ending journey began in Chicago at my cousins apartment. This was like in 56, and he had every boss jazz LP that was recorded up until that time. Although I've tried hard to duplicate his collection, it's impossible; but Brown and Roach with Harold Land are available. My favorite cut on that LP was "Delilah". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt_fmhtePocEnjoy the music. |
Rok, if you go back to 11-22-15, tribute to Katherine Dunaham, and let the program run all the way through until it stops, you will make several amazing discoveries.
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Frogman and Rok, I disagree 300% with the both of you. What's wrong with this country is highly intelligent, college educated men going around with "sunshine glasses", when we have welfare for corporations, but nothing for the poor, that's economic injustice; however, I don't advise openly taking my view because "big brother" is watching and listening. Now back to our regular program; "speaking of sunshine", Charenee Wade brings me sunshine. "Ackman" originally brought this to my attention. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JabrQh5vql4Enjoy the music. |
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Our house is the one with the big turkey and the feast. That's been going on so long that those who were kids have teenagers of their own whose names I can't remember. When I meet one face to face, I'll mumble what I think is their name, and they'll smile, but I also detect a grin at a private joke (he can't remember my name).
In regard to political issues, this gathering is no different from this forum; we don't agree, but we knew that before they came, although this is only since Obama was elected.
The very best thing about this Thanksgiving is: after I said the blessing, I found a comfortable spot outside all traffic lanes, and stayed there the entire evening, while guests made themselves at home, and to my amazement they had no problem with that.
We'll look to Frogman for musical direction.
Enjoy the music.
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Frogman, there is a lot more "justice" now than there was before the revolution. |
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The great thing about jazz is that no matter how many times you have heard certain records, they can still stand "one mo listen"; that's the case with "Haute Mon" duets. Another album is "Soul Brothers": Ray Charles – piano, electric piano, alto saxophone Milt Jackson – piano, vibraphone Billy Mitchell – tenor saxophone Connie Kay – drums Oscar Pettiford – bass Skeeter Best – guitar Kenny Burrell – guitar But with a cast like that, what could go wrong; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUnID70IU-gEnjoy the music. |
Rok, and Frogman, I did volunteer work for Larry Rice at his big homeless shelter right here in St. Louis. I helped put up the TV station. There were very few "normal" people at that big shelter. It was composed primarily of winos, and people who should have been in a mental institution, normal people who had fallen on hard times were in and out. That I believe was in 85. Now, 90% of the people in shelters seem "normal" and some even better educated; that's not at all normal.
I posted this to let you guys know that I'm repressing my opinion of what you think about this subject, not to start a new conversation.
Enjoy the music.
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Frogman, I liked "Never Let Me Go" better than lush life, too much "fluff" in the music at the beginning, but since her voice had that diamond sparkle of youth it still sounded good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy4YvDBGRo0Enjoy the music. |
Schubert, I came to the same conclusion in regard to poverty and homelessness and the "Goners"; it's a waste of time. |
Newbee, please don't linger on my account; hurry up and go, let the backdoor hit you where the good Lord split you.
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Pryso, our memories coincide, and 1960 was one continuous party for me.
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Before any discussion can begin with me and other "Aficionados", we must discern what is and what is not. Also, somewhere in between, what may or may not be.
We'll use "Objective" and "Subjective" reality as a foundation for these discussions. Objective reality is one that exists independent of our minds; 2+2= 4, that's objective reality. Lee Morgan is the best trumpet player ever. That's subjective reality. This reality can only exist in the minds of those who say it is so.
If I say I'm Napoleon Bonoparte, that can be my "subjective reality" and it's as real to me as any "objective reality". As you can see, there is a world that exists between "objective" and "subjective" reality.
People in the nut house have their own reality, and when you discover that, it's pointless to argue with them. There are also jazz enthusiasts who lay claim to being the ultimate authority, (the ultimate "objective" authority) in regard to jazz.
Since we are discussing a subjective genre of music, within a subjective universe (music), there can be no objective reality; consequently, anyone who lays claim to such a reality, is closest to those who have their own reality.
The only thing I'm going to throw into this dogfight is my friend, the professional jazz musician who lived with me for an entire Summer and never practiced. Now there can be no doubt that when he wasn't sleeping, he was "practicing" in order to learn how to play his instrument. One does not get to play with many of the jazz musicians you have on record without knowing how to play their instrument, whatever it is.
Since I'm not a musician, we never even talked about music; I was more interested in his life as a professional "jazz musician"; it was never dull. Now I realize why he never practiced. What was he going to practice? I had all of his records, and the music he played on stage was different than anything I had. He was practicing when he was on stage, and his music sounded better than anything I had on records. I don't believe that he knew what he was going to play.
A top "jazz musician" is someone classical musicians like Learsfool don't believe exist; that's someone who simply lets the music that's in them come out; either you got it, or you no got it; but if you ain't got it, you can't get it; no matter how many schools you go to, or how much you practice.
In regard to Hiromi, she's in a different universe, and her music shouldn't be compared with "jazz jazz". While I liked it, I don't think it should be judged by old standards.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, I forgot to include, "The Frogman's Reality", and you forgot to include "The Frogman's Kind of Music"; now I guess you want to know what I mean by that. Since I'm not quite sure, you'll have to discern for your self.
Frogman speaks "MUSIC", and that's a language I never took; hear tell they taught it at Julee Yard, that's that school in New York where them classical musicians go to. My huntin dog perks his ears up when Frogman speaks. Did I tell about Mutt? He's my huntin dog that I read to, and I always tell him, "This is what Frogman said", and his ears perk right up; when Frogman speaks, he listens.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, Reality is the conjectured state of things as they actually exist, rather than as they may appear or might be imagined. In a wider definition, reality includes everything that is and has been, whether or not it is observable or comprehensible.
The quality or state of being actual or true. The totality of all things possessing actuality, existence, or essence. That which exists objectively and in fact.
music is: the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity. b : vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony.
Jazz is: American music developed especially from ragtime and blues and characterized by propulsive syncopated rhythms, polyphonic ensemble playing, varying degrees of improvisation, and often deliberate distortions of pitch and timbre.
Well Rok, there you have it.
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