Jazz for aficionados

Keegiam, Nica was one fantastic woman. She was presented in the news as a floosy when "Bird" died in her apartment, and since I was quite young when that happened, naturally I believed what I read.

It's only since me and Rok purchased her book "Three Wishes" did I discover what an amazing person she was; check her out.


        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonica_de_Koenigswarter

Thank you Frogman, I never heard of a "Tack piano". No wonder Harris captured the essence of the tune so well; it always impressed me when I heard it; it's like in another time zone.

Keegiam, be sure and let me know what you discover. In the meantime, I'm trying to find an unusual version of "Panonnica";


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8PHk1aA8Uo&t=302s

Pjw, that's boss, I thought about Wes as soon as the music began. Great guitar and Hammond B3 as you said.

That tune certainly brings back memories of Wes.

I thought I had posted this before; it seems that we both are quite impressed by "Kokoroko". This is the first new jazz that's impressed me.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MlAiVw-n5Q

I'm glad you're honest Keegiam; I didn't listen to it all the way through, so maybe I thought the same thing, but Monk plays 100 different versions of all his tunes, so you might like one of the next 99.

I always recorded my LP's to cassette (you know this was a long time ago) and I was riding past grass, trees, and flowers when this came on the speakers; my memory takes me back to that time and place when my life was peaceful and perfect. (that lasted about a minute)

When I hear this, I automatically go back to that time; if a few perfect minutes is all I can get, I'll cherish those minutes.

I have never claimed to be an authority on what is and what is not "good jazz", and I detest any one who claims to be an authority on what is and what is not "good jazz".

I wont expand on that statement, I'm just clarifying my position.

Frogman, 

Newen Afrobeat, is a blend of traditional Yoruba and Afro-Cuban music with funk and jazz.

In these Covid-19 times it's very important that you reflect back to any time that you can remember when life was perfect for you, and play music, or do whatever that can bring that memory into focus; you can even share that memory with us if you like.

Since "The Duke" knew more about jazz than I do, he must have been right.

How was your round the world cruise? Have you permanently joined the jet set, or are you back?

Rok, this is the best I can do on Beethoven;


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MFbn8EbB4k

Rok, without a doubt you certainly let your jazz speak for you that time; "Blue Trane" is the best cut ever.

I'm convinced that our sense of aesthetics in music is dependent to a degree on who our ancestors were 200 years ago maybe, and for many of us that's unknown, but known or unknown, you still have those genes.


When I was child, my parents took me to the museum; I looked at a painting and asked them when did we go there. It was a painting of a castle on a lake in Switzerland.

They looked at me strangely and explained we had never been there. The more I looked at this painting, the more I was certain that I had been there. The older I got, the more that memory faded, but I still felt that I had been someplace that looked identical to that painting.

I'm saying that you are born with memories of places that you have never been before. If that's so, it also means that you are also born with your ancestors sense of aesthetics in music. Of course there are also a multitude of sociological factors that determine our taste in music.

The bottom line is that it is foolish for one man to argue with another man in regard to his sense of aesthetics in music.

Rok, I know you had a 3 piece disco suit, mine was light tan with faint stripes; I couldn't dance but I looked so good.

Frogman, it was definitely jazz you posted, but it fits your and Wynton Marsalis's definition of jazz.


I recall maybe 30 years ago, before Wynton made his first LP as an independent musician, and he had been a sideman with Blakey; it was suggested that he might be the new worlds best trumpet player. He was so good that few people objected, I agreed that he was certainly a candidate.

When his first LP came out, I couldn't wait to get to the record store, lucky I didn't get a speeding ticket.

Back home I nervously put the record on with anticipation of some of the best jazz I had ever heard. (not quite) After all, this is his first LP, I thought; the next one is going to be better.

(this is not a personal comment about Mr. Marsalis, this is about jazz and his concept of jazz)


Next thing I know, he's the major spokesperson for jazz, (who made this johnny come lately the major spokesperson for jazz?) The same people who makes all our decisions, the major media.

All of a sudden he's telling us what is and what is not jazz, and it's carrying major weight. Every "made man"; card carrying, bona fide established jazz musician objected to this, but the media said "you're just jealous" so that band played on until even the jazz radio stations heeded his words, and all I began to hear on the radio was "Stereotypical" jazz.

Frogman, the fact that I consider many of your selections "Stereotypical" isn't exactly news. I've been listening to jazz seriously since 56. Your selections would have sounded boss to me back in those days; the riffs were new, but now I have heard some of those same riffs too many times, I want something new.

From my point of view, it seems that you and Wynton don't think it's jazz unless it has some of those same old riffs.

According to you and Wynton, "Kokoroko" might not be playing jazz, but according to "Wickipedia" it's jazz/ Afrobeat. Personally, I don't care you if you call it "hamburger hash", I want a second helping.
 

If you drink clorox daily, I guarantee you will not have to worry about Covid; or anything else for that matter.

Rok, I was only referring to music that we like and dislike; how what one person thinks is beautiful, is very unattractive to another; Classical music affects me like someone scratching on a blackboard most of the time, And I will never forget when our rich cousin decided there should be culture in the family and took us to the opera; I was in pain the whole time we were there, my genes just were not right for that sort of thing.

Rok, I recall whenever my newly acquired friend in the Air Force wanted me to come down to his cubicle, which was all the way at the end of the barracks, he would find this hill billy country music on his transistor radio, and turn it up real loud. He got the biggest kick out me charging down to his cubicle and telling him to turn that &*%^# music down, or I was going to put that radio where the sun don't shine.

He would just laugh his head off, and I would ask him; "Now just what do you want?"

Nowhere did I ever state that one was jazz and the other wasn't, but Newen Afrobeat is more "African" with less jazz, than "Kokoroko"

This is Fela undiluted;


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj5x6pbJMyU



This is Newen Afrobeat doing the same number;


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFOc9N1kXKA


It's quite possible that you don't hear what I hear; I hear music that's hundreds of years old, I hear music from the time slaves were being dragged across Africa, I hear the silence from the time slaves in the US were forbidden to have African drums, you can't hear that.

Rok, who left you and Frogman in charge of the jazz umbrella?

I decided to compare the Afro beat to the Afro Brazil;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpP5poqFq4E


This is one sexy groove, just like all things Brazilian.

Frogman, there is an "under current" being added to this thread and you're adding it.

I left a link, an important link about "Charlie "Bird" Parker" and you didn't respond to that. Instead you decided to press on about this "jazz nothing" in regard to Afrobeat.

I'll post the link again in case any body decides to respond.


https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/nov/18/head-explode-sax-stars-genius-tragedy-charlie-parker


After that I posted two links about Nubya Garcia. Of course they were ignored, and you continued to press on about nothing, but the nothing was addressed to me, it seems you want to make this thread about me.

BTW, why didn't you respond to Schuberts post?

Frogman, I will be more than delighted to explain; first, they both are of the same "genre", and that is "Afrobeat". Newen Afrobeat channels the music of Fela Anikulapo Kuti. He spent his life protesting oppression in Nigeria, his songs always have a message. Since I have been a fan of his music for many years, my ears are most receptive to Newen Afrobeat. Their music is actually more African than Kokoroko.

Kokoroko simply plays jazz with an Afrobeat. I don't hear an uncanny similarity between the two groups. Maybe others here, hear that same "uncanny similarity"?

It is foolish for one man to argue with another man in regard to his sense of aesthetics in music; much of the music posted on this forum makes my ears cry, but they like it, who am I to judge?

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/nov/25/makaya-mccraven-nubya-garcia-review-earth-jazz-festiva...
     

This music is "sublime"; the definition of sublime is: Of such excellence, grandeur, or beauty as to inspire great admiration or awe. Elevate to a high degree of moral or spiritual purity or excellence.



      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Mem_n0h8Q4&t=27s

Who let the MORONS out? Would somebody go back and fasten the gate.

Try listening to the music.

Frogman, I think you're tone deaf to the African drum.

Frogman, this is like my morning cup of coffee, it wakes me up.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V-aNg9TBiQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGIyrWkvWp0


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2N8bVpRneQ

This link asks the question "Is it jazz?" As far as I'm concerned personally, you can call it chopped hamburger hash, as long as I can get the LP.

This is far from her best effort but it engages in the question.

         
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVLN-UX21yk


This is where she is now, and I would have ordered the LP, but I'm sick of having problems with delivery, so I'll wait till later.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRMN5vCt7Vo

Rok, I liked all of them, I even own a couple, but when you eat steak and potatoes every day for years, you kind of want something different, and right now I have a hankering for something different.

The fact that Nubya Garcia sounds like Nubya Garcia is good enough for me.

Pjw, Thank you ever so much for all this new information on Nubya Garcia. I have never seen an artist evolve so fast; watching her has been like watching a plant grow before my very eyes.

Before I saw your posts I was thinking about Nubya Garcia. I have decided to see if Target can order, or fill my vinyl needs because there have been too many delays. Am I the only person having trouble with deliveries?


Sons Of Kemet - My Queen Is Ada Eastman (Audio) ft. Joshua Idehen - YouTube
pjw815631,111 posts


Shabaka And The Ancestors - The Coming Of The Strange Ones (Visualizer) - YouTube


Nubya Garcia - Pace (Official Audio) - YouTube



VARIOUS ARTISTS - We Out Here - Amazon.com Music


Nubya Garcia: Source Album Review | Pitchfork


I'll take this list to Target and see what happens.


Thanks again for the recommendations.

Now that I think about it, you're probably right. The only way I knew what was happening was from other aficionados and the record store.

The radio played more popular music than anything else, and when they played jazz it was what was "popular" and everybody already knew about it.

Just like this fantastic music by Machito & Charlie Parker that I've never heard, there's a ton of other "boss jazz" that has eluded me. When you think about all of those years that went by without a "You Tube", you realize how much good jazz went by without any kind of alarm being raised.

In my time, you had to buy an album to hear what it sounded like, and I paid for a lot of losers, which made a person not want to take chances; but Machito & Charlie Parker, I would have purchased had I seen it, without fear of it being a loser.

Now that we can listen to all these killers before we buy, there is no limit to what we can acquire.

Rok, this music is new to me; I don't know how that can be, but there it is;


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qgF5Vd1mi4
     

My favorite Joe Henderson solo is on this cut with Grant Green.


  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq0m0hbCjFQ


Henderson solo begin 7:44



Here lately, every time I hear a musician that I walked with, talked with and listened to live many times, I get very sad when I think about them and the fact that they are no longer with us. Grant's been gone a long time, but now I can feel his presence when I hear his music; maybe, I feel that not before too long I'll be joining him.

Frogman, would you like to suggest some new music that we could review?

Frogman, my post didn't contradict anything you said.  I merely reinforced the fact that "Trane" is no longer with us, while Nubya Garcia is.

Today is a good day for old school cool blues;


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnTdGw9jDVI


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhgUUe5czxc


I knew Sandra, she was one cool chick; even cool chicks get the blues.

Mary_jo, I have upgraded my rig to the point where the vocalists are in the room, and when I hear a vocalist who is no longer with us that I knew from childhood (we caught grasshoppers together in a field close by) When I hear him, as much as I like his music, I can't stand to play it all the way through.

I don't know why I'm getting so emotional in my old age?

Sounds good to me Mr. Trumpet man.

Frogman compared Nubya Garcia to "Trane" and some of the other greats. I know I would rather go to a club where I could see and hear Nubya Garcia live than hear "Trane" in my listening room.

I saw Trane live in a nightclub where I was at a table close enough to the musicians to see the expressions on their faces. The expression on McCoy Tyners face when Trane went into the outer galaxies was unforgettable; "Huh". Every professional musician in St. Louis was there; minus girlfriend. Kenny Rice, a professional drummer, was at our table. When Trane took off in the direction of Andromeda, we looked at Kenny who was in ecstasy, while we were, "huh"; along with McCoy Tyner.

All of this happened in an instant, and I witnessed the facial expressions; Elvin Jones looked at Tyner for direction who indicated "follow me, he'll be back eventually". This was when Trane was blowing the soprano sax on "My Favorite Things", and it occurred near the end of the most memorable set I can recall, after we had been treated to a long night of the more conventional Trane, that was exquisite.

The ambiance in a jazz club is exponentially better than my listening room, and while I have that memory of Trane, it can not be repeated, but it is possible to experience seeing and hearing "Nubya Garcia".

There was nothing more important to Black African Culture than "The Drum".


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PM6sSXHL3E


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnAolJHTK3s


I stated "Explicitly and unconditionally" that before slavery, Sub Saharan Africans lived in villages. Villages consisted of 100 people. Each village had it's own rhythms and dances. (dances were also very important)

There were 12 million slaves imported to this hemisphere. 12 million divided by 100 equals 12,000. That means there were 12,000. different rhythms and dances that left the continent of Africa. Just as all of a certain people look alike, all of a certain peoples rhythms sound alike to some people; such is life.

I can distinctly distinguish between the rhythms of "Haiti", the rhythms of Cuba, the rhythms of Brazil, the rhythms of the Caribbean, and the silence of the USA.

If you can not distinguish the differences between those rhythms, it's not my problem; it's yours.

If I may make a suggestion; I propose we critique the music Pjw mentioned,or any other "new music" that you would like critiqued.

It all depends on which side of the bed he got out of Mary_jo.

I really like "Newen Afrobeat"; they seem to have so much fun making music, I hope they survive Covid-19. It's hard enough for a musical group to survive without Covid-19, it's infinitely harder when you throw that in the mix.

Rok, your post totally eluded me.