Jazz for aficionados
These are some of the best drums I've heard; I can even see that photograph in motion, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOY9fLm3eYI This is the way they use to unwind in the village after a long stressful day; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvbXLDcGe0k |
This is some of the music in my collection; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gmGL5SqhaY "Fatou" as she is known by her fans, is the newest member of my collection; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E82BifytoYY She is so full of life that I can feel her vibe. |
Phildbasket, welcome to our group. Phil, since this thread began we have included, along with jazz, every subject under the Sun. The best way to play that is to simply ignore subjects you don’t want to get into and just respond to jazz. That album by Ahmad Jamal has been well reviewed on this thread and given the highest rating. I like her version of "Fly Me To The Moon", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSoAdDlOPiM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jSlDqHqNOM That CD is on my order list; thanks for the recommendation. |
"Ironically, and inaccurately, the universally accepted idea that the influence of African musical tradition is one of the key ingredients of Jazz has been staunchly denied by O-10 and another participant here" Frogman’s statement is not universally accepted nor does it jibe with anybody who has ears for music. Clearly, African music can be heard all over the Caribbean and South America, but not in the United States of America; Why is that? Give me just one example of music that is clearly African in origin, during, or just after slavery? Why does African music exist everywhere that slaves were sold except here? Music was a way for slaves to express their feelings whether it was sorrow, joy, inspiration or hope. Songs were passed down from generation to generation throughout slavery. These songs were influenced by African and religious traditions and would later form the basis for what is known as “Negro Spirituals”. That’s what was in "Google". Has anyone been to Africa and heard them sing "Negro Spirituals"? Has anyone heard anything from Africa that sounded like "Negro Spirituals"? Negro Spirituals are the songs of Africans imported to the US and stripped of everything including their dignity and their culture. They were given the King. James version of the Bible and told to pray. That’s why all of those "Negro Spirituals" refer to stuff out of the Bible. If they were African songs, they would refer to stuff out of Africa. Since this argument can be audibly refuted, I will give you an example of African music, and let you compare that to "Negro Spirituals" and see if you hear any resemblance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8tXMEe30ZM I even tried to find something as close to Western music as possible, all the music in my collection is extreme African with absolutely no resemblance to most music here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_vhBMWWnBE I even tried to help your case Frogman with the music, but I don’t think I succeeded; nothing about this "Negro Spiritual" sounds African to me. |
I don't know where you're from Frogman, but I'm from the city. Modern American jazz is from the cities of this country. From the late fifties on, through the 60's, I was in St. Louis, Chicago, Atlanta, San Antonio, Detroit, and LA. There was one thing all those cities had in common, and that was jazz. No, the jazz was not different from this city to that city, during that time, whatever lounge I was in, the jukeboxes were quite similar; they contained the same tunes we have reviewed on this thread many times. The only city where the music was a little different was LA; they had the same jazz plus what they called "West Coast Jazz". When musicians from New York, went to LA, they didn't change their style one iota, they played the same jazz they played in New York. West Coast jazz could be heard in spots that are now famous for West Coast Jazz. LA was so hip, that all you needed was a boss tuner, they had more radio stations that played jazz than anyplace. When it came to musicians and live jazz, LA rivaled New York, but the musicians weren't famous. As good as they were, I wondered why that was so. It seems that good musicians didn't need to leave LA to make a living; they could do movies, or play clubs all up and down the coast. In regard to West Coast jazz or East Coast jazz, they played whatever the patrons of the nightspot they were appearing in demanded. (Good musicians can play more than one style). When I say modern jazz, I'm speaking of the music that originated with all the musicians who surrounded and worshiped "Charles 'Yard Bird' Parker". That would include "Miles Davis"; Miles wore out a pair of shoes and the sidewalks of New York looking for Bird. Don't take my word for it, read Miles Autobiography. That jazz is music that expresses uncommon and complex emotions; some can hear it, some can not. Many people who like the music can not hear everything in it, but so what. In regard to the people who are primarily responsible for modern jazz, for Gods sake let us not go back to Africa. Their history begins in the city in which they were born; Bird was born in Kansas City, there is a contradiction in regard to where Miles was born, and where he was raised, that's because he doesn't know anything about where he born (Alton Ill) but he knows a lot about where he was raised, E. St. Louis, Ill. All of the cities I mentioned were wonderful places to live and have a good time in; I know, I lived in a few, and had a good time in all of them. Oh, I forgot Indianapolis, that was where Wes Montgomery began. Just about all the jazz musicians we reviewed on this thread began in local clubs in their hometown city before they made the big time, but Miles began in New York, so I guess that's where we'll have to make his hometown city. The beginning for modern jazz musicians is the city in which they were born. |
Alex, these are the words I am guided by; When I find myself in times of trouble, Mother Mary comes to me Speaking words of wisdom, let it be And in my hour of darkness she is standing right in front of me Speaking words of wisdom, let it be. Keegiam, I have never been to New Orleans, nor have I any desire to go to New Orleans. I consider the musicians you mentioned "Dixie Land", and unfortunately, they are mostly absent from my collection. I don’t collect records just to say I have them, I buy records to hear music that I like, no other reason, and I don’t like "Dixie Land"; take me out back and shoot me if you like, but that’s the way it is. Books are composed of words written on paper, records are composed of music that is recorded on vinyl, such as "modern jazz" which is somewhat different from a lot of music that was recorded before it’s time. The same musicians who were playing before it’s time responded by changing their tune. Writers have to write, and jazz musicians have to blow. Writers can not become jazz musicians, and jazz musicians don’t want to write, but writers have decided that they must write about modern jazz (that which they do not understand) but just like birds got to fly and fish got to swim, writers got to write, and some people believe what they have written. You read books and listen to records, since abstract modern jazz can not be put into words, you might have a problem if you can only understand words. Jazz aficionados perceive abstract modern jazz; maybe this is a case of "You have to have sung the song before you can understand and feel it". Jazz expresses so many abstract emotions that are unique, primarily to the city, that maybe if one is from the country, they haven’t experienced those emotions and don’t get the message that Miles, or Bird, or Monk, or Charley Rouse, or Mal Waldron or so many other people are sending out. ( as much as I like Herbie Mann, I intentionally left him out because as well as he can play jazz, he wanders all over the place) Modern jazz does not "resonate" with everyone; this is what happens when the music excites something deep inside yourself; maybe you have it and maybe you don’t, but modern jazz is not an intellectual exercise, it’s about emotions, if you don’t feel it forget it. |
Everyday people attempt to rewrite history, but someone always digs up the facts. The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhD_KJpRwAY |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAxdTSc_fts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9zz50sW-XM&list=PLO-EE8swx6vmjC4MFfQfPhS8Qk20pgm3h Music can say more than words ever could, but not everyone can hear. |
Frogman, when something "was", but is no more, what is there to prove? So far you and your henchmen have attacked me instead of giving proof that something that existed when slaves landed on these shores, did not just mysteriously vanish. Did they just overnight become "Cotton Picking Negroes"? Like in "Uncle Tom's Cabin"? This is the history you have presented. The question still remains, why was African Culture so evident in the Caribbean, and South America but not here? Simply tearing a few pages out of the book of history won't work. It was there when they got here but it just mysteriously vanished; what happened to it? I don't want to talk about that anymore. We don't want to talk about that anymore; you brought it up. "It" seems to be relevant to the jazz musicians we are discussing, why shouldn't it be relevant to us? |
To whom it may concern, Blakey's "Drum Suite" is more African in regard to the drumming than most drum albums that can be found in Africa; that's because of the time span between when that record was made and now, as well as those spectacular drummers;I'm glad that it is in my collection. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%A1ndido_Camero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabu_Martinez https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo_Jones Personnel Art Blakey - drums Bill Hardman (4–6), Donald Byrd (7–9) - trumpet Jackie McLean - alto saxophone (tracks 4–6) Ira Sullivan - tenor saxophone (7–9) Ray Bryant (tracks 1–3), Sam Dockery (tracks 4–6), Kenny Drew (7–9) - piano Oscar Pettiford - bass, cello (tracks 1–3) Spanky DeBrest (tracks 4–6), Wilbur Ware (tracks 7–9) - bass Jo Jones - drums (tracks 1–3) Charles "Specs" Wright - drums, timpani, gong (tracks 1–3) Candido Camero, Sabu Martinez - bongos (tracks 1–3) It's a spectacular album. |
That's right Frogman, "Henchmen". When more than one gangs up on me, I call it a mob, and since you are the leader of the mob, they are your henchmen. Tactic #1, when you have absolutely nothing substantial for an argument, go off on a tangent, your favorite tactic. Neither you or your (what ever you want to call them) have addressed the question of what happened to the African Culture after they landed on these shores, and you won't because you can't. You and your (whatever) can only go around in endless circles of "Pontification". |
Did you listen to the Art Blakey I posted? Neither one of them is remotely related to discussion. I'll post the Art Blakey again for your reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di7ko6eST40&list=PLEyxWPyoryRIkGcgMLBVUOhCyiqdTVyh3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pOOnPH9qQ8&list=PLEyxWPyoryRIkGcgMLBVUOhCyiqdTVyh3&index=2 This sounds a lot more African than what you posted. |
Been looking at gangsters,so excuse me if I talk like one. I'm thinking about quitting this mob; first you argue with me but you give no evidence of your side of the argument, just some flimsy nothing and I throw in the towel, now you give me badly recorded music that's not really all that hot. Big time people can sometime make small time music. What's the benefit of being in this mob? Alex was the last member to submit good music, although Alice Coltrane was OK, but that last thing that Acman submitted was out to lunch. In regard to that argument, it's like somebody tore some pages out of a book, cause it ain't there, and you guys coming up with some "Wack" don't change nothing. I read books that were hundreds of years old, they were about the slave trade in Africa written by the slave traders themselves, they told of things too gruesome to repeat; these were eyewitness accounts, now those books are missing; they're just like Captain Willards mission in the movie "Apocalypse Now" it never existed, and now those books never existed. The descendants of the people who got very rich off the slave trade are still around living large in Africa; their ancestors names were mentioned, the slave trade was no fairy tale, it happened; while these people had nothing to do with the slave trade, they're enjoying the profits they're ancestors made. Could they have had something to do with the vanishing books? I know the fact that many jazz musicians are descendants of slaves is unimportant to you, but if you were a descendant of slaves you might want to know something about what happened a long time ago. In regard to what happened in this country, Alexander Haley's "Roots" is the "only" account that begins at the shore of the Atlantic Ocean when the slaves "debarked", and follows their history to the relative present. It seems that there are some pages missing in the history books here. I realize some people have a writing handicap, but maybe now is the time to attempt to do something about it. |
Frogman, no matter how much lipstick you put on a pig, it will still be a pig; you can put a bucket of red paint on the thing and it will change nothing. When you compare the US to Cuba, the Caribbean, and the entire continent of South America in regard to music that landed on these shores in the minds of those people, and how much of that music was allowed to flourish, the difference is more apparent than the nose on your face. Case closed. |
I'm going to have to spend more time listening to "New old jazz"; that's kind of like NOS tubes, they've been around a long time but they're still new to me. Herbie Nichols, and Kenny Dorham are two artists I haven't listened to a lot. There are so many fantastic jazz artists that I haven't given enough attention. Now that I have the time, I'll catch up. |
As everyone knows, I like just about anything with an African beat, Kokoroko is hot; this is the description someone else gave. "Some Fela Kuti And Hugh Masekela with a hint of Coltrane, presented with femininity." That seems quite appropriate. In addition to all of that, they have added some new jazz; they have even gone beyond their mentors, must have them, they are on my list. |
Nubya Garcia has evolved into a jazzier groove that's quite appealing; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTIZikaOTDE |
I'm deep into this music, I know nothing about the religion, and I'm not sure that I even want to. I'm fundamentally a scientist; electronics, chemistry, physics, and everything that ends with "ology"; consequently, I can only get into religion as far as it corresponds with science, but I still like the music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvNKcil5EU8 Many of the people who are "currently" into this religion are descendants of people who were stripped of everything but their bare skins and left with this imprinted on their brain. A drowning man will cling to a toothpick in hopes of remaining alive. Feel free to contribute whatever you like to this. |
We had a raging debate in regard to music from Africa that came over during slavery hundreds of years ago that was retained everywhere in the western hemisphere except in the USA. For me, it's just like water in the Sahara Desert, it just ain't there, I don't know what happened to it, but it's missing. This current Afrobeat eight-piece band that has our attention, has become known for the measured intricacy of their compositions, which interweave Oscar Jerome’s lyrical guitar with bandleader Sheila Maurice-Grey’s harmonic brass changes, all underpinned by percussionist Onome Ighamre and drummer Ayo Salawu, is based in London. I also find it very interesting how this new music is coming out of the UK. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MlAiVw-n5Q Nubya Nyasha Garcia (born 1991), in Camden Town, London, is a British jazz musician, saxophonist, composer and bandleader. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3GGAvb27XM |
I had 8 out of the top 10 albums in 1970; how many do you have? https://jazztimes.com/features/lists/top-10-jazz-albums-1970s-readers-picks/nggallery/image/10-weath... (click on the dots at the bottom of the frame) |
Beginning in the 1960s, Fela Kuti pioneered his own unique style of music called "Afrobeat." Rebelling against oppressive regimes through his music came at a heavy cost. Kuti was arrested 200 times and endured numerous beatings, but continued to write political lyrics, producing 50 albums before he died on August 2, 1997, in Lagos, Nigeria." Fela was a true rebel with a cause. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts71SxdUnLI |
In regard to Taj Mahal's point, the blues is a feeling that is felt at sometime or another by all human beings; even Native Americans in the middle of the Amazon Jungle. The music called "The Blues" is how they express it. Maybe, African Americans living in the Mississippi Delta had the deepest Blues for the longest time, which is why they played the Blues that's most well known. |
The music always sounds so much better to me when I can time travel to back when it was new. Unfortunately, or fortunately (depending on the point of view) not everyone is so old. Evidently the music still sounds good to younger people because they buy it. Case in point is Miles Cookin Album; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VIkQ6zHjyw |
"I can smell the whiskey wine and beer". In my miss spent youth, I listened to the blues live in the blues clubs, every weekend. This is the man I listened to live more than any other artist I can think of. Where ever he played, the place was packed with fans of the female persuasion; always a good place to be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyVhBfIFbiQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWokbxx2DPA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SP5JHLqXM8 |
I've been searching for new music while in my Covid-19 isolation. This music has impressed me most, and I have the LP ordered. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbzDZxmJypQ&list=RDcXJ9N9qLx0g Sometime I hear new things in old jazz; John Coltrane – tenor saxophone Lee Morgan – trumpet Curtis Fuller – trombone Kenny Drew – piano Paul Chambers – bass Philly Joe Jones – drum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1GrP6thz-k Somehow this cut is always fresh, even though it's old. That's because those great musicians were so fresh when they recorded this, and thanks to new vinyl, they will stay that way. Curtis Fuller's trombone is smoking on this cut. I don't even know who "Kenny Drew" is, but I just became a fan. Paul Chambers is laying down his usual heavy bass lines, and at the end we hear Lee Morgan, who was only 19. Is it any wonder that this album will forever be on the top 10 list. |
The fact has come to my attention that we have almost slighted one of the most eminent pianists of modern jazz, and that is "Horace Ward Martin Tavares Silver" (September 2, 1928 – June 18, 2014) was an American jazz pianist, composer, and arranger, particularly in the hard bop style that he helped pioneer in the 1950's. With that introduction, that's not needed for most of us, I will begin to explore some of his most famous works. "Senor Blues", one of his most played compositions, is where I'll begin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8jFGFwOm7k I'm not sure if you can get a record of this "Senor Blues", but it's his best. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUAu_3R0VPI His hits are too long for one post, so I will leave it to you to continue. |
Keegiam, I can't get too much "Night In Tunisia", that most certainly was one of the best, but it seems whichever one I'm listening to at the time is the best; here's another one; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fy_EmfXT34 |
Thank you for that link Keegiam; it was so much more than what I have on record, it was very enjoyable, plus it's also one of my favorite tunes by Horace Silver. BTW, he was a distinguished musician who lived a distinguished life. Once he found himself in the midst of a bunch of junky musicians, in an organization that I shall not mention and he left. Now that I have mentioned the "unmentionable", I will continue. I have known some junky musicians personally, and I want to clear up a popular misconception; none of them ever thought that dope helped them play better; they couldn't play when they needed it, they couldn't play when they had too much, the fact that they were extraordinary musicians had nothing to do with the dope; read "Bird's" biography. Dope is only a big deal when a musician is using it, and their use is the same as any other junky's use; why they use it? You will have get that answer from psychiatrists. |
