Jazz for aficionados
Rok, I went back to Valaida Snow and found some real good entertainment; singing and dancing from the 40's, when life was a lot simpler. This was a time when the working man could find a job, all he had to do was get to Chicago or Detroit, and it also helped the small business man. I could look at this all day long, just bounce around and have a good time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn3lJK2Egwo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14QEoEIvUuk Enjoy the music |
Frogman, that clarinet solo is so beautiful, but short, that I repeated it several times in order to fully appreciate it. In Regard to "Offering", without a doubt it wouldn't be to my taste, or Rok's. Normally I wouldn't take the liberty of speaking for Rok, but this is one time I'll take that chance; from the description, and my memory, the only people in the audience, who liked those 35 extra minutes of "My Favorite Things", were musicians. As I recall, neither McCoy Tyner or Elvin Jones were too pleased, I judged that by the expressions on their faces and they way the quit even attempting to follow "Trane" on his flight to who knew where, (that's Trane) and chose to remain on solid ground. Since you're a musician, you might have a completely different take on "Offering". Enjoy the music. |
Frogman and Rok; this thread is most enjoyable when the three of us get on one time subject, and stick to it, as opposed to jumping from one thing to another. For example; Velaida Snow has been mentioned several times, and compared with "Pops"; why don't we just get into that "era" and cover everything surrounding it, or we can get into the 40's and 50's. I can think of an important reason for doing this; although almost everyone has stated there are reasons why the music is better at one time than another, they haven't been able to give any reasons as to why? When you substitute "prolific" for better, that narrows things down, and gives a better understanding of the underlying reasons why this may be so. An example of "prolific", is all of the hit music that came out in the 40's and 50's in all genres. That music is still around in various forms in "cross genres". What I mean by "cross genres" is when a tune that came out as jazz, and crossed over to pop. Another example is country and western crossing over to R & B. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying to get into C & W or R & B, I'm trying to define the word "prolific" in the way I'm using it; that's when people say the music was better at that time, when what they mean is there was a lot more of it in "all" genres. When you substitute the word PROLIFIC, for BETTER, that might give us some insight into why this was so. As a jazz aficionado, I feel there is no doubt in regard to "jazz" in the 50's and 60's; there was more of it. Maybe there was also more POP, more C & W, and more R & B, at the same time. Believe it or not, although we're talking about music, we're also getting into economics and disposable income, as well as numerous other factors; music doesn't happen in a vacuum. When there is more "disposable income", everything is better all cross the board. In our past discussions we knew what we were talking about because those artists are in our collections, and we are familiar with them. Our new discussions would revolve around a designated "era" or time period and be restricted primarily to that time. While we might have to resort more to "Wikipedia" and "you tube", we would learn a lot. For example, "Valaida Snow" was most active in the 30's and 40's, Pops was active in the 30's and 40's, therefore we would restrict our discussions primarily to the 30's and 40's, instead of hopping all over the place. While this didn't work to well on Cuba the last time, I believe not only will it work, but we'll learn a lot. Since Pops and Valaida have both been mentioned, I'm going to begin with some artist in the 40's; "Hazel Scott" sounds good. Instead of just music, I'm going to "Wikipedia" to find out about the person as well. Hazel had long been committed to civil rights, particularly in Hollywood. She refused to take roles in Hollywood that cast her as a "singing maid." When she began performing in Hollywood films, she insisted on having final-cut privileges when it came to her appearance. In addition, she required control over her own wardrobe so that she could wear her own clothing if she felt that the studio's choices were unacceptable. Her final break with Columbia Pictures' involved a costume which she felt stereotyped blacks. She also refused to perform in segregated venues when she was on tour. She was once escorted from the city of Austin, Texas by Texas Rangers because she refused to perform when she discovered that black and white patrons were seated in separate areas. "Why would anyone come to hear me, a Negro," she told Time Magazine, "and refuse to sit beside someone just like me? In 1949, Scott brought a suit against the owners of a Pasco, Washington restaurant when a waitress refused to serve Scott and her traveling companion, Mrs. Eunice Wolfe, because "they were Negroes." Scott's victory helped African Americans challenge racial discrimination in Spokane, as well as inspiring civil rights organizations ‘‘to pressure the Washington state legislature to enact the Public Accommodations Act in 1953. With the advent of the Red Scare in the television industry, Scott's name appeared in Red Channels: A Report on Communist Influence in Radio and Television in June 1950. Scott voluntarily appeared before the House Un-American Activities Committee Scott insisted on reading a prepared statement before HUAC. She denied that she was ever knowingly connected with the Communist Party or any of its front organizations, but said that she had supported Communist Party member Benjamin J. Davis' run for City Council, arguing that Davis was supported by socialists, a group that has hated Communists longer and more fiercely than any other. Her television variety program was cancelled a week after Scott appeared before HUAC, on September 29, 1950. Scott continued to perform in the United States and Europe, even getting sporadic bookings on television variety shows like Cavalcade of Stars and guest starring in an episode of CBS's Faye Emerson's Wonderful Town musical series. Scott's short-lived television show provided a glimmer of hope for African American viewers' during a time of continued racism in the broadcasting industry and economic hardships for jazz musicians in general. Scott remained publicly opposed to McCarthyism and racial segregation throughout her career. To evade oppression in the United States, Scott moved to Paris in the late 1950s. She appeared in the French film Le Désordre et la Nuit' (1958). She maintained a steady but difficult career in France and touring throughout Europe. She did not return to the US until 1967. By this time the Civil Rights Movement had led to federal legislation ending racial segregation and enforcing the protection of voting rights of all citizens; most African Americans in the South could vote again, after nearly 100 years of many being excluded from the franchise. Other social changes were underway. Scott continued to play occasionally in nightclubs, while also appearing in daytime television until the year of her death. She made her television acting debut in 1973, on the ABC daytime soap opera One Life to Live, performing a wedding song at the nuptials of her "onscreen cousin", Carla Gray Hall, portrayed by Ellen Holly. Here is Hazel on "Rhapsody in Blue", and also on on a "Foggy Day". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtBMXE9mJV4&list=PL696650744F3E9A41 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtBMXE9mJV4&list=PLC25026D86F95AAC9 Now that you know where I'm coming from, do your thing. Enjoy the music. |
How about a little French jazz, like "Last Tango In Paris" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl214Pq2OfU&list=PL109085F224DAAD97&index=2 Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, you're absolutely correct in regard to the Cuban thing. In regard to my likes and dislikes, I put them aside when I suggested going to the 30's and 40's. The computer enables me to take to take a more "pedagogical approach" through Wikipedia and you tube, and I will with your and Rok's help. For now, I will go back to the Cuban thing, and follow that up with the 30's and 40's. Enjoy the music. |
Rok, you might as well have stated African influence does not exist because the although the music sounded African influenced, the name was wrong. Cuban street music is a combination of Spain and Africa. Spirituals, Blues, and Jazz are uniquely American, with no African influence I can detect. Enjoy the music. |
I'll go into my shallow awareness of Cuba before Castro while I'm waiting for your contributions. Since my awareness of Cuba was formed by movies and television, almost everybody in Cuba was white. Were there any Black members in Ricky Ricardo's band on "I Love Lucy"? I know everybody has seen the movie "The Godfather"; Meyer Lansky's hotel suite is still preserved. I didn't know Black people were prominent in Cuba, Until Fidel Castro came rolling into Havana with his Black Generals. He sent Batista packing, but not before Batista could fill his suitcases with 400 million dollars of Cuba's money. By the way, Batista was a light skinned Mulato, he would have been considered a Black man in the United States. I mention this because he pushed racist policies in Cuba. I'll tie all your contributions together when they come in. Enjoy the music. |
Rok, there's enough stuff that left Africa permanently during the slave trade to fill a library and a museum. While researching Cuba, I came across a master voodoo drummer who lives in Haiti. He has a chart of types of "exclusively voodoo drumming"", and what country that type of drumming came from. As ancient as it is, to pass history down from one person to another without writing, this is still being used in regard to voodoo. While he has all of the rhythms, he pointed out that many types can no longer be found in Africa, but reside in various countries in the Caribbean, and Bahia, where many types of voodoo drumming can still be found that are no longer in Africa. My ears told me that a long time ago. People in Africa are trying to move forward, and survive economically, while those over here who are steeped in Voodoo (which goes by many names) are leaning on that ancient religion which originated in Africa. I'm not trying to diverge from the main subject, just pointing out something that's related. Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, while there aren't many contributors to this thread, the quality of their contributions is higher than any other thread I've been on. I would like to know how many hits a day there are on this thread. Some people are like parasites, they take what they can get out of a forum, but never contribute anything. If that's the case we're making musical contributions for the many, and proof of that would lie in the number of hits compared to the number of contributions. We're all quite satisfied with your contributions and special expertise, as it has been stated. While I certainly have 0 intentions of going to music school, I'm thankful for what I learn from your contributions. Enjoy the music. |
Rok, let me tell you a tru story about slaves here and their drums. At first the boss man didn't mind, and the drums had catchy rhythms, but when somebody told him, "Hey boss man, did you know they could talk with them drums"? That changed things; from that time on, the drum was outlawed. The very next night, "I thought I told yall to stop beatn them damn drums"! How can you have African music without a drum? Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, we've been into the evolution of jazz in relation to Africa, from slavery to the present; I wonder how it would go if we went in reverse; I mean what music in Africa that has been influenced by jazz from here. Acman could lead this parade, I believe he has been into African oriented jazz from Africa. Enjoy the music. |
No Rok, his aunt, not his mama; Miles don't play that; you'll have them coming back after me. I'll wake up in the middle of the night, and there him and his aunt Corrine will be standing in the middle of the room looking mean, and bad. (glad we got that straightened out) I'll get back to you on the Herby Mann CD's Enjoy the music. |
This is my favorite by the Young Holt Unlimited; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ4rTHHZyv0 Enjoy the music. |
I'm on a roll Rok, "Git down Charlie Brown"! boogie with a beat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEWd01Oe3WI A man and his oud; "Oud you excuse me while I go find my oud". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLfpyWDOjzY&list=PLTFHVBXgpQpa5VPsACI1WdE-pYzLkjdo5 Did I ever tell you about "The Oud and The Pussycat". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkF_z9aumVM Not one written note or word, and the music is the same in New Orleans, and Brazil, as it was hundreds of years ago in Dahomey. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb8DlC3utYE Miles aunt, who was a kind of Voodoo queen, thought he was weird, because as soon he walked into her office, she started lighting candles and smoking voodoo cigarettes. "Ain't that a bitch; she thought I was weird"; quote, the very normal Miles. Enjoy the music |
This is the best current jazz I've been able to find; I'm looking forward to your critical analysis of this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgKMdqSUkKc Enjoy the music. |
Acman, although I wanted you to lead the parade this time, I know how stressful even a big move up can be to an audiophile, so I don't know if you can honor my request, but here's how it would have went; I believe you collect jazz from Africa, that would be in the category of new, or relatively unknown. Hugh Masekela and Miriam Makeba would be excluded in this category because they're so well known, and what we want are relatively unknown or new musicians. Since you'll be leading the parade, other categories you like would be optional as well, but what I'm trying to do is keep us all in the same category, even if for a short while. Rok, if you have any suggestions that will keep us in the same category for a short while, I would be glad to hear them. Enjoy the music. |
Rok, you and I both have shortcomings we'll have to live with, and accept. You have Attention Deficit Disorder, and I'm allergic to what I call "High Class Culture". You just go with the flow, and make your usual contributions; country by country sounds good. I'll wait for Acman's input, sum it all up, and lead the parade. Enjoy the music. |
Acman, your post is exactly what I was expecting. After my last move, none of my tube gear was working. Previously, I had sold an Audiolab preamp, and the guy I sold it to, said there was nothing wrong with it, but it didn't quite suite his taste, and asked for his money back; I obliged and that turned out most fortuitous, because it was the only thing working after the move. Do what you can when you can, we'll understand. Enjoy the music. |
Rok, that disease you got is contagious, and I done caught it; here we are in Nam. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lJ8mWe9sGY Ain't no telling where next, maybe back to Mali. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEWd01Oe3WI Check the little girl at about 3:28 in the black dress with pink bands around it; after watching them dance for just seconds, she's really into it. African music and dance are like meat and potatoes, you can't have one without the other. Enjoy the music. |
Rok, now we're going around the world, I don't play. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bsnZcamJB0 Enjoy the music. |
Rok, our collections are a treasure indeed. Although I've been searching and not finding, it's my nature to search, and I'll continue; at least I'm finding interesting African Culture that probably existed before slavery; besides unique rhythms, each village had different dances. You wouldn't be referring to Miles aunt, "Madam Corrine", would you? Enjoy the music. |
Cuong Vu got it right about Wynton and Miles according to me; he is preaching the gospel of Orpheus, although his music has yet to reflect the gospel of Orpheus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46T4YEyX1d8 Enjoy the music. |
Here's a brand new album that just came out (strange name) where's he from? His mama dressed him funny too. (Rok, made me do it.) Ulf's music is quite interesting, I think it could stand more than one listen; what do you think? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t17xCUqPf6k That Japanese jazz was too stereotypical for me, it sounds like something I've heard a thousand and one times. Enjoy the music. |
It was in the late 50's that a woman turned me on to Miles. Although I had heard Miles, I liked him better on "Somethin' Else" better than I did on KOB; that was an album led by Cannonball Adderly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UUziUYXlZQ I was stranded and up the proverbial creek, when a very attractive lady offered me shelter; absolutely nothing romantic, just shelter. If there was ever anyone into Miles, it was her; she must have had every album he put out up until that time. I especially remember "Round Midnight", every time I hear it, I can see that photograph of him on the cover with shades, you know the one; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIgLt7LAZF0 When I hear "On Green Street", I can see her face, and hear her voice; it was soft and lilting, never in a hurry. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGVdAlxlp18 We spent the day playing nothing but Miles albums. Her pad was dark, except for a red light that shined on the record player. We became close friends after that encounter; platonic friends I might add. Since that time, I've observed that women who're into jazz always like Miles; they find the sound of his trumpet very alluring. Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, I'm going to explain one of "your" problems, and never repeat or comment on it. "You can take the horse to the water, but you can't make him drink". This can be applied a thousand and one way's in various situations; however, no one ever ran across a "Roking Horse" before, and "Roking horses" don't get thirsty. Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, BTW, Harold Land, "A Lazy Afternoon" is getting a lot of play; he gives each one of those standards the respect and delicate nuanced treatment they're due. At the same time he's retracing my life, and allowing me to relive the golden moments when I experienced a particular song. Enjoy the music. |
Rok, the answer can be found in the fact that "Jazz Aficionados" have never said it was so; I don't think even Miles thought it was so; and we are in 100% agreement about your other comments in regard to those other albums. While a second album would reinforce her standings, there is no doubt about this album. Only time will tell how good Ms. Salvant is, when compared to those Divas you mentioned. Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, while most of the time we agree, I consider your last post as a challenge; title this, "The Musician" vs "The Aficionado". In regard to "modality" or "no modality", KOB lacks the intense emotion of SE; maybe that's the ethereal quality of KOB. Miles music dominates this album to such an extent, that he can be heard within each solo, making the artist secondary to the music; could that be the cohesion you refer to? Without a doubt this maybe "MIles Davis" greatest album, but when placed up against the artists Rok referred to, and their best albums, KOB begins to slide down the totem pole. Oddly enough, those who are obsessed with KOB, would not be aware of those albums; and consequently, would not be considered jazz aficionados. While KOB is "one" of the greatest, it most certainly is not "The Greatest". In regard to SE, "The tunes are mostly standards", while three of the tunes are standards, I consider that a putdown. Hank Jones intro on "Autumn Leaves" is so dramatic, you don't know what he's going to go into, but you know you like it because it sounds so good. This is followed by incredible solos, from Miles and Cannonball; after Miles plays the melody, Hank comes back in and gets into the heart and soul of the tune with each note on his piano. "The tunes are mostly standards" sounds like such a put down that I'm left speechless. As I sit here trying to respond to your post, I get more and more "discombobulated"; "Art Blakey", a sloppy drummer". I can only suggest you give SE another listen, I don't know why I get the feeling you're responding to this from memory, as opposed to putting the CD on and listening to each cut, and each note as I am at the moment. While all music is subjective, I'm finding it hard to believe we're so far apart, far beyond your preference to KOB over SE, which is not hard to understand. Enjoy the music. |
There's no doubt I over reacted because I couldn't find words to express my emotions, when you said "standards", which was factually accurate, but they took those standards where they have never been before, and although I hear this every time I play that album, I can't find words to express it; evidently I'm too close emotionally to this album. I feel so much more comfortable responding to this Miles cut; I'm not sure if I've heard it before, but I like it. I see why I don't have it; it was released in 67, and that was when I was into "The Age of Aquarius", that "hippy thing"; but so was Miles; it may not have been reflected in his music, but it was certainly reflected in his dress and lifestyle. I can lay back, chill and really get into this album, especially since I haven't heard it before. Thanks for the heads-up, I'm going to put it on my play-list. Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, without a doubt that's my favorite album cover. I'm sure it was taken during the best time in Miles life, he was "insanely" in love with the woman on the cover. That was when Miles was going into an "angular" approach to his music; this would be reflected in "Bitches Brew". In general, I preferred the flowing music him and Gil Evans produced. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-EgyUcHSSQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01GW0jdJatA&list=PL08420B7A2DE13933 Enjoy the music. |
