Jazz for aficionados

One of RVG's statements that's never mentioned is, when asked about his take on digital and records, he said "Good riddance to records".


            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Van_Gelder

Pryso, we discuss what ever we feel like discussing on this thread, although the "deleter in chief" might erase it.

Maybe I have a much better digital rig, because it took 3K for me to just equal it, and that was with a Rega tweeked to the max, plus tube phono; although the phono with NOS tubes put it over the top.

There is nothing that irritates me more than guys in the "Analog" forum. When these "newbies" buy a record player and wonder why their records don't sound so hot, those guys act like they don't know what's wrong, when they know full well that if you don't have a big buck high end rig, CD's sound better.

I'm glad we're having this conversation here; "analogers" are prone to exaggeration, but I believe and trust my fellow music lovers.

I always had to spend more money on analog to equal CD, and now I know why; all CD players are not created equal, and my "Marantz" is evidently better than most. It's taken me years to come to that conclusion, and it answers the question why I have to spend more on analog to equal it.

Alex, I have a PC "Guru" who is worth his weight in gold, otherwise I might not have it either because I don't understand computers. What's funny is when I call him over, and ask a question about computers, he gives me that look that says, "You wouldn't understand it even after I explained it". That look means, just tell me what you want accomplished.

If you had Burmester, what you call modest might be better than what the "exaggerators" call modest.

My description of sound is "Either the thing produces "Holography" or it doesn't" I don't know what "natural" means.

While we agree on old and new CD's, I'm not sure about this statement for me; "If I could afford it, I would buy only records and would have only analog set up".

Rok, I know you're taking this all in, and since you no longer have records, I don't suggest you buy any. If you have excess funds, I suggest a DAC for your PC output, and upgrade in CD player if you still have loose change.

Back to Alex's "If I could afford"; I would most certainly have a very expensive "analog rig", but in the meantime, it's flip a coin as to which is better in regard to what I have presently.

Just like in ice cream there are many different flavors, and so it is with tube preamps, I'm not pushing one tube over the other, but I am pushing tube over SS.

Tube, or SS is not about the quality of one over the other, it just that as an objective "music lover", tube pre is the only way to go. I listened to SS Audio Research and rushed it back to the dealer, while I considered Tube ARC the best.

While there are differences in interconnects, my computer "Guru" told me that what comes with computer gear is sufficient, no need for a high end USB lead.

Rok, we might have the same CD player; I'm quite satisfied with mine.

In 1960, I bought "Mingus Ah Um Charles Mingus" and I only had a one box record player in one room at the barracks, and I enjoyed it very much. I have a high end rig now, and I'm still enjoying it. I would rather listen to the music posted on this thread on a one box record player, than listen to the music posted elsewhere on this forum on the best rig in the world.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7hoX7golZI&list=PLiN-7mukU_REK9zBMvZoNERNvhovxnsE5

Rok, I assume you already have this;


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YVXuCFzK7s


You already use your play list the same as me, and this is the cheapest way to improve the music coming from your PC.

Because Miles is featured on Cannonball's album "Somthin Else", there are those who want to say this is a Miles Davis album.

Miles is a "sideman" on this album; repeat after me, "Sideman"!

All the music on this album is Cannonball's, not Miles. Cannonball didn't write all the music, but it sounds the way he wants it to sound, not the way Miles wants it to sound. If that were the case it would sound like KOB; nuff said.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut5qbImhS9s&list=PLTIb4fKCEAevQGcDKFIXdimOXsMK4uVNv&index=4

My new favorite instrument is "bass clarinet" it's really different. Oran Etkin is one of the featured players.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvB0f5akEoQ

I have no idea what it is about certain records, but I prefer "Bird" records to CD’s; maybe it is because that’s the way I originally heard them; even the record noise seems so appropriate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcEN21wTy64&list=PLccpwGk_xup-FEyUWMOBms5XKycr0ueBb

One of the most interesting sideman/ leader dynamics is Donald Byrd/ Pepper Adams.

A debate is what it is; here's Miles Davis sounding like "Miles Davis" on Autumn Leaves;


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiE8-NlMbSM



Here's Miles Davis sounding like Cannonball wants him to sound;



            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpB7-8SGlJ0


I rest my case, the music speaks for itself.

Max Roach/ Clifford Brown; who was the leader and who was the sideman?

Bird and Diz is never referred to as   Diz and Bird, I wonder why not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovCpL1zjBgI
      

Sideman, (Jazz) a member of a band or a jazz group other than the leader.

Pryso, evidently my words failed me because I would never convey what you stated; however, the music links I posted spoke for me; they are as different as night and day, yet both are titled "Autumn Leaves". I believed they conveyed my thoughts without words.

Lyle Mays and Pat Metheney were like Peanut butter and jelly; bacon and eggs; you can't have one without the other. While not "mainstream jazz" their music to me is like the Missouri landscape after you leave the metropolitan area, it's wide open and free.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac9x6BcQLjc&list=PLIOE7mhMWLE1_2PbamjINjRzUFJm3u3DL


       
Sometimes Lyle's music just grabs you, and at other times it requires a calm introspective mood to hear into the music.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvf8UT3uqPY


We will miss Lyle, but we will always have his music to keep his memory alive.



          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax-wDHE7-Ik&list=RDAx-wDHE7-Ik&start_radio=1

This is in honor of Lyle Mays; I saw him and the Pat Metheney Group on the Admiral Riverboat in St. Louis about this time, they were fantastic, this is my favorite tune by him;


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4jIbLYE3gQ

I know youse guys wont believe this but "So What". I was sitting in my listening chair dozing off when the tune "Somthin Else" popped on. (I listen the same as someone listens to the radio, I turn the rig on and music starts playing from my play-list)

I was little groggy, and I didn't immediately recognize the music, but it excited me, and I had to wake up and listen. Unlike every body else, I didn't put on a record, or push a CD in, I had to identify everything from what I heard.

After I realized it was the title tune from the album under discussion, my ears really perked up.


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kag0vqS8CU


From the opening notes to the last fade out; this tune is "Somethin Else"
After that I put KOB in the CD player; "So What", my favorite tune on that album began to play.


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylXk1LBvIqU


Cool Miles, blow cool Miles, as much as I like your cool sound, you don't excite me like you did on "Somethin Else" and Cannonball was just blowing his A-- off on that tune.

Nice, but after all is said and done, it comes in second place compared to "Somethin Else".


You can cut my legs off and call me "shorty", but my opinion will never change on that.

Everyone is so glad to have you back Mary_jo, you're making our Valentine Day complete.


I liked Anita and Frank Sinatra best. To be honest, my thoughts and emotions on Grant Green are too personal, plus they would take up a whole page.


I listened to everyone's cuts since from yesterday, and each one of them was very good; they took me to different places in time that involved good memories.



Happy Valentine's Day!

I was wondering the same thing Mary_jo, maybe your concern will bring him back.

Nsp, he was right, they (movie people for one) had the equipment that made better recordings, while Rudy had the musicians who made better music. What do you want, the best  recording or the best music, jazz fans couldn't have both.

Rok, Unfortunately for us, as we age we don’t hear as well. We might be wise not to purchase expensive stuff that we can’t hear. A lot of what he’s saying makes good sense; especially in regard to stuff that’s "chip" based.

I noticed that he didn’t get into turntables. High end turntables are expensive. The turntables we used before CD were very cheap in comparison. I had one  ( 200.TT) and everybody I knew had TT’s in that price range in the 70’s. They spun at 33 1/3 and sounded good to us, but there was no comparison to CD; that’s why we ditched them in a hurry for CD’s and players.

You hardly hear record noise on a high end rig. Recently, I bought a used record that had wear; the noise would have been too much on my old record player; as a matter of fact, I was always replacing records, not realizing the record player was the problem.

When these new people by cheap record players, that sound good with new records, but when the record gets the least bit of wear, you can hear the noise, and they don’t understand that a more expensive set up is required (much more expensive) to reduce the noise to music ratio. And what makes that even worse, when they complain, others that know what the problem is, respond with bewilderment.

Good analog is expensive, and there is no way to get around it.

Nsp, Somethin' Else is a jazz album by saxophonist Julian "Cannonball" Adderley, released on Blue Note Records in 1958. Also on the session is trumpeter Miles Davis in one of his handful of recording dates for Blue Note.


Sideman definition, (Jazz) a member of a band or a jazz group other than the leader. I believe Miles Davis qualifies as a "sideman" on that album.


Miles Davis wrote the title tune, and that was all he wrote on that album, but it was a very good tune.

Thank you Acman, I will look deeper into everything you posted.

Here are some of my favorites by The Ink Spots;


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBrwaCjJIFU


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yovIyTnUr5I


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC_VzbtRGr0


     

Yamaha from the mid 80's ain't worth fooling with.

There are those who attempt to square the circle, but after they are finished, curves remain. There are those who attempt to "circle the square", but after they are finished, corners remain. They are the same people who try to fit round pegs into square holes, and square pegs into round holes; but they gotta do what they gotta do.

Acman, the music is interesting, but there is absolutely nothing in writing about the music or the artist?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTTPCONUcPU

Oscar Pettiford is my favorite bassist; while Mingus has the most creative music, no one can play music on a bass like Pettiford.

Those tunes are my favorites by Oscar Pettiford; they remind me of the first time I heard them, it was when I was a teenager in the Summer of 56 on the South side of Chicago. I lived with my older cousin who bought several jazz albums every week.

Since I was a teenager, I couldn't participate in the night life, but that didn't stop me from fantasizing. "Bohemia After Dark"; just after dark when light through the windows of the skyscrapers began to shine, was when my fantasy began. I imagined all the pleasures the hip people were indulging in, and the day I would join them.

Sweet memories of the "Southside" always come back when I hear those tunes, even when I hear them like I've never heard them before. I walked down 65th street to Lake Michigan everyday for a swim, and in the process passed open windows with music blaring out of them. That was an adventure; jazz out of this window, doo wop out of that window, Blues out of the window further on. There was never a dull moment on the Southside, not even when peacefully walking down the sidewalk.  

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y0cbFHt9uk

"Lush Life"
Studio album by John Coltrane
Released Mid January 1961[1]
Recorded May 31, 1957 (#5)
August 16, 1957 (#1-3)
January 10, 1958 (#4)
Studio Van Gelder Studio, Hackensack
Genre Jazz
Length 36:39
Label Prestige


My "Trane" contribution is;


  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yagO50i6O5E&list=RDAx-wDHE7-Ik&index=2



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkY_zTKzPCY



This was recorded in 63 - 64, and it illustrates how much "Trane" advanced or revolutionized his music in 6 or 7 short years from the time he recorded "Lush Life"

The DVD, "I Called Him Morgan" gripped my attention from the first minute to the last. There were nothing but good people in this DVD; I could relate to all the people and events. In many ways it was the life I lived, I’ve never been a musician but I was always in lounges where they played, and had musician friends.

The two biggest factors in Lee Morgans death, were Lee Morgan and the weather. "I love you, I will kill you, but I will love you forever". That is the nature of so many women, it must be respected. If yours truly had not been young and fast, he would not be writing this thread.


I wont say anymore and ruin it for anyone who wants to see it; highly recommended.

No Nsp, I never saw Lee Morgan.

It's sad when the perpetrator of the crime is looking down at the body on the floor, wondering how it got there.

A close acquaintance of mine is no longer with us because he said something smart to the women he had just jilted, a day before he was to be married to another women. Women in St. Louis carry guns for a good reason, certainly not with the intention of shooting their lover, but he should not have said what he said; unfortunately, he's well aware of that now.

Rok, what we were discussing in regard to deprivation and depravity is in the news; a 14 year old stabbed that young lady in NYC multiple times.


I wonder what generation was he?

I just saw something on the news that reminded me of "Casandra Wilson"; it was about Jackson Mississippi where that pretty lady still lives as far as I know. (don't know why)
It seems it's flooding.


              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU5jqVOW6gk&list=PLB6373FB1DE69CBA5


She really grows on you; at first, I thought she was one one "Quirky" vocalist, but I have so many of her recordings that now I like "Quirky".

Rok, the late late stuff isn't really that late, he just never recorded it, but left that to the live audiences as I related it in my observation.


There is a very good reason for those well known combinations; they could almost read each others minds.

Rok, you stated that you heard no difference between amps; neither did your favorite reviewer. The differences are subtle for me, and not worth paying for when you get to very expensive, but I'm sure differences exist for those who can hear them.


A long time ago when I'm sure my hearing was much better than it is now, I participated in a frequency response experiment; it was displayed on a decibel meter. When the frequency got past 16K the apparent volume began to drop off. Past 18K I could barely hear it. At 20K, no matter how loud he played it, all was silent.

Rok, with mosquitoes, you exterminate the swamp, but what if the swamp exists in every single solitary metropolitan city in the USA.

This is not about 'opinion', this is about fact and definition.

Why do I have to prove the obvious? The Sun rises in the East and sets in the West, I hope I don't have to prove that next time.

This is "Love For Sale" on Miles album;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXSjJBKPyFg



This is "Love For Sale" on Somethin Else, Cannonball's album;


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBJv_r9ohs


Give me a break!

Check again Frogman, that is "Pepper Adams" not Ronnie Cuber.

Rok, in this case, it's not about your bank account, it's about your ear account. From the discussions we've had over the years, I would say you're good just like you are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEVXxfN_pIw

First, the Miles Davis cult stated that KOB was better than "Somethin Else" now that's not good enough; next they claim that "Somethin Else" is in reality a Miles Davis Album.

As a Cannonball fan, there is no way I'm going to allow this; facts are not fiction.

You and Frogman tell me to quit, yet you both go on and on; there's something wrong with that picture.


Nobody ever said they didn't like KOB, it's just that some of us like SE even more.

When you really compare this;


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__OSyznVDOY



To this;



      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImvjZ7fUUBU



If you are a true aficionado, you can hear a big difference.