Jazz for aficionados

Alex, by 1961 "Moanin" was a jazz standard and could be heard in most lounges; I remember the time well.

Rok, I don't know anyone who doesn't have that album; I was riding with some people who liked Kenny G, and  they had him on.  They also had that CD which I politely requested they play.

Frogman, there have been albums on the last two pages that are contenders for being better than KOB. But as I stated, it's not for me to decide for others, they decide for themselves; I'm not a "Guru".

Rok, I have asked myself major questions about Grant Green that I believe are related. The first question is why don't I have Grant Green records as opposed to CD's. I have Kenny Burrell records. Those records came out when there was no such thing as CD.

Once I was told there could be a wide difference between the recording date and the release date.  I just don't know why I don't have Grant Green records?

I thought Grant Green was at least well to do, as opposed to being so poor that he had to go to New York when his doctor told him it would kill him?

Ray Charles had a drug problem, and he wasn't poor.  Many musicians have had drug problems and made enough money to pay for drugs and not be poor.  I forgot, we're only supposed to talk about music.

Frogman, why do you always, 100% of the time, misinterpret my words? If you wish to engage in a conversation, let us do so.

I was comparing two different points of view. While I comically referred to "Juilliard", one of the most prestigious schools in the nation, I meant no harm.


How sad that the level of insecurity and emotional reliance on being “top dog” (to use his term) is so high that it can cause an individual to stoop to such a level of negativity and condescension. Instead of, at least, simple respect for a different point of view; or, at most, use it as an opportunity to learn something new, the approach is, instead, to demean in an effort to pump oneself up. Once again, it becomes obvious that for some it is not really about love for the music; but, instead, love for how much they want to feel that they “love” the music; a calling card.



Forgive me Frogman, I had no idea I was doing all of that, it was certainly not my intention.

I didn’t know that I was emotionally insecure; I’ll have to check the budget and see if I can afford a psychiatrist, they are very expensive you know.

In regard to KOB, you are proving everything I stated; you are taking the stance that it’s objective and one should automatically regard KOB, as the best jazz ever; while I’m saying each listener should reserve that decision for him or herself.

All of those people who spoke, spoke for themselves, and when I speak, it’s for me; I don’t allow other people to speak for me.


Frogman, on this entire Agon forum, audiophiles can talk for days about this speaker or that speaker, but as you know, mine are custom made. If my rig is designed for me, why shouldn’t my collection be the same?

Gil Scot Heron must be turning over in his grave; 1974 was 56 years ago and everything he tried to change is much worse; the "Ghetto" was a paradise compared to what it is today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drTjTE8MCBU&list=PLRzdMCYnDofrWAMGWuJb2EfQomHeDkDK3&index=6


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2zKdIcOV5s&list=PLRzdMCYnDofrWAMGWuJb2EfQomHeDkDK3&index=5


Calling Gil Scott Heron a "Rapper" is an insult.

Geoffkait, I was thinking about Billie Holliday when I did the math and how tragic her life was; especially in regard to narcotics.  But I keep forgetting, we are supposed to separate the music from the musician because that's another subject and it might cause conflict.

Although I like the authenticity of Billie’s voice, the music and recording quality of this recording is off the chart.

This album won the 2011 Grammy Award for Best Jazz Vocal Album, Bridgewater’s third Grammy win in her career.


"Lady Sings the Blues" (Billie Holiday, Herbie Nichols) – 3:31
"All of Me" (Gerald Marks, Seymour Simons) – 2:58
"Good Morning Heartache" (Ervin Drake, Dan Fisher, Irene Higginbotham) – 5:10
"Lover Man (Oh, Where Can You Be?)" (Jimmy Davis, Roger ("Ram") Ramirez, and James Sherman) – 4:43
"You’ve Changed" (Bill Carey, Carl Fischer) – 5:11
"Miss Brown to You" (Leo Robin, Richard A. Whiting, Ralph Rainger) – 2:12
"Don’t Explain" (Holiday, Arthur Herzog, Jr.) – 6:15
"Fine and Mellow" (Holiday) – 4:55
"Mother’s Son-In-Law" (Alberta Nichols, Mann Holiner) – 2:46
"God Bless the Child" (Holiday, Herzog) – 5:13
"A Foggy Day" (George Gershwin, Ira Gershwin) – 4:33
"Strange Fruit" (Abel Meeropol) – 4:16



Personnel
Dee Dee Bridgewater - vocals, producer, artistic director
Christian McBride - double bass
Lewis Nash - drums
Edsel Gomez - Piano 

James Carter - who plays bass clarinet, alto flute, soprano saxophone, tenor saxophone, is quite impressive on this album, it will be added to my collection.

"God Blessed The Child", written by Billie Holliday is the song on this album that touched me most, while I liked the music on the cut "Lady Sings The Blues" best.

In order to understand modern jazz, it's essential to understand the people who created it. Jazz changed dramatically after Charles "Yardbird" Parker, even the "swing" musicians changed; they fell under "Birds" magic spell. You can hear how different jazz musicians who were playing before "Bird" sounded after they came under his spell.

The fact that he was a drug addict is well known, but he always warned others when they asked about that part of his life "Do as I say, not as I do". Since many jazz musicians were drug addicts, many people associated jazz with drugs, not accepting the fact that the majority of jazz musicians wouldn't touch the stuff. By the way, I'm referring to "hard drugs", as you know, marijuana is legal now, which means it never was that bad.

Some of the very best and most gifted jazz musicians were heroin addicts, but that fact detracted from how great they could have been if they never touched the stuff. As stupid as it sounds, there are those who think that was the secret to their greatness. I believe they would have been drug addicts whether they were musicians or not. The causes of drug addiction are in the realm of the social and psychiatric scientists.

While he's best known for "Be-Bop", "Charlie Parker With Strings" is his endearing and lasting legacy. It sounds just as beautiful to me now, as it did the first day I heard it, which was more years ago than I care to count.



"Dancing in the Dark" (Arthur Schwartz, Howard Dietz) - 3:10
"Out of Nowhere" (Johnny Green, Edward Heyman) - 3:06
"Laura" (David Raksin, Mercer) - 2:57
"East of the Sun (and West of the Moon)" (Brooks Bowman) - 3:37
"They Can't Take That Away from Me" (G. Gershwin, I. Gershwin) - 3:17
"Easy to Love" (Cole Porter) - 3:29
"I'm in the Mood for Love" (Jimmy McHugh, Dorothy Fields) - 3:33
"I'll Remember April" (Gene de Paul, Pat Johnston, Don Raye) - 3:02


Each one of those tunes is so out of this world, that there is no way I could pick one and call it my favorite, therefore, I will pick two, "Laura" and "I'll Remember April".


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmm9u8dPU4A


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FRyFbUBiZg


           

Rok, you never spoke truer words, and you must have read my mind when you spoke them.


I sense that the censor is a one trick pony, and if the post does not apply to his trick, or go along with his way of thinking, he deletes it.

nsp, Gary Bartz is a gifted musician, and I'm glad he's still around; none of the musicians I knew with his problem are still around; they all worked for "Blue Note", and from my point of view their finances weren't as great as they should have been. Drug addicts needing a fix don't make the best bargains; ask Alex about that, he posted in relation to that situation.

When a drug addict is not making enough money to pay for his habit, if that addict is a professional musician, he's in double trouble, that's because he has to have his medication before he can play. He also has to have a "baby sitter" to tell him when he's had enough.

I never observed what Gary spoke of in regard to time, or heard it mentioned, the only thing I observed is a musician nodding and unable to make the gig.

Musicians who made enough money to pay for their habit and make gigs were able to get by without much attention.

I never observed any benefit whatsoever drugs had to the musician who used drugs.

Using heroin for a jazz genius is the same as using heroin for a street corner "junky"; it gets him high and allows him to escape reality; no more, no less, and contributes "zit" to his ability to play his instrument, or anything else musical.


No way can you even put marijuana and heroin in the same sentence,

I would take "Plenty, Plenty Soul" over KOB any day of the week.

I've read many books that spoke of Charlie Parker's genius, and various statements attributed to him, but never in any book has he stated that somehow heroin enabled him to be a better musician, or that it helped him in any way form or fashion.

Pjw, that record of Ray Charles and Milt Jackson is the ultimate jazz soul record.

Acman, some people lost their minds using LSD; there were so many different kinds that a person never knew what kind of trip he was going to go on.

Out of the many and varied aspects and descriptions of modern jazz, "soul" is the one that I admire most. Jazz without soul can be boss, and I can like that as well; however, it's jazz that projects an emotional component called "soul" that I like the best.

Some of the jazz musicians who project this quality best are; Milt Jackson, Bobby Timmons, and Ray Charles; Ray Charles can play in any genre he chooses and qualify.

From what I can hear, it seems that the descendants of slaves project this quality best, Maybe that's because they have had so many trials and tribulations that it comes through in their music.

Take Bobby Timmons "So Tired";


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbpXG4JNOU


I can hear it; "A man that's so tired he don't know what to do, but he got to keep on pushing". He could be someone on one of the city streets walking, looking for a job, and he's so tired, but he got to keep on walking cause he's got to find a job.


Another tune is "Sandra's Blues";



            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhgUUe5czxc


Poor Sandra, nothing is going right for that beautiful lady; her man just left her, and she's a few bucks short on the rent; she's got the Blues.

I also noticed a comma instead of a period at the end of the word sentence.

Rok, I smoked reefer until I got tired of it, but heroin never crossed my mind, or any other sane persons mind.

One does not lead to the other; plus, marijuana is not physically addictive.

Uh Oh, now somebody is going to call me out on whether or not I meant that all heroin users are insane?

I'll just let that one stand, and let them make of it what they will.

Out of all the jazz vocalists, Eddie Jefferson is most certainly recognized as the "hippest" if not the best.

That is some kind of fantastic recording you linked Acman; is it something special. My Eddie Jefferson recordings are old and noisy.


                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeuNc8s1Prk

Pjw, this is the first time I heard that Milt Jackson/ Ray Brown record, I hope I can get it.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4LV0tBZncI


This present opioid addiction is cause and effect. Young people coming into the job market have big problems that were created before they were born, and unable to solve their problems turn to drugs.

Pjw, jazz gospel, that's a different switch; I like it.


Bobby Timmons is in a different dimension for deep listeners.

This post is about one of the most important jazz musicians in history, who was a drug addict, and also played with "Bird",
and that musician is "Miles".

Miles Dewey Davis did not fit the profile of a drug addict; he was the son of a successful Dentist, and raised in a middle class neighborhood that consisted of doctors, lawyers, business people, plus just plain folks. Today, they call neighborhoods comprised of mostly Black people "Ghettos", but that term would have been a misnomer in Miles day, because educated and wealthy Black people lived in the same neighborhood; today, wealthy Black people live in neighborhoods where most white people can not afford to live.

The reason I'm telling you all of this is because drug addicts have a psychological profile from birth; one parent poverty stricken home in the worst neighborhood. As soon as I make a statement like that, someone will raise their hand and say, "I knew a guy who was raised in an orphanage and became a doctor". Just because a flower grows in the desert does not mean that the desert is a good place to grow flowers. Profiles related to cause and effect must have a study consisting of a minimum of 1000 people. People with Miles Davis's sociological psychological background become successful individuals whether Black or White, as Miles proved. What does not fit is his drug addiction.


Unlike "Bird", who was into drugs before he was a musician, Miles was affected by all the drugs in the music scene. He said that him, Dexter Gordon, Tadd Dameron, Art Blakey, J.J. Johnson, Sonny Rollins, and Jackie McClean got into drugs about the same time. That fits some advice I was given that still holds true; "You will become according to the people you associate with and the books that you read, who you are". It seems that the jazz scene at that time influenced Miles to become a drug addict. This was in 1949 and he was only 23 years old.

"Somethin Else" popped up on my play-list, and after listening, I thought about comparing it to KOB


Somethin' Else is a jazz album by saxophonist Julian "Cannonball" Adderley, released on Blue Note Records in 1958. Also on the session is trumpeter Miles Davis in one of his handful of recording dates for Blue Note. Adderley was a member of Davis' group at the time this album was recorded. The Penguin Guide to Jazz selected this album as part of its suggested "Core Collection."


    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=somethin+else+cannonball+adderley+full+album


       
Cannonball Adderley – alto saxophone
Miles Davis – trumpet
Hank Jones – piano
Sam Jones – bass
Art Blakey – drums



Kind of Blue is a studio album by American jazz trumpeter Miles Davis. It was recorded on March 2 and April 22, 1959, at Columbia's 30th Street Studio in New York City, and released on August 17 of that year by Columbia Records. The album features Davis's ensemble sextet consisting of saxophonists John Coltrane and Julian "Cannonball" Adderley, pianist Bill Evans, bassist Paul Chambers, and drummer Jimmy Cobb, with new band pianist Wynton Kelly appearing on one track in place of Evans. In part owing to Evans' joining the sextet during 1958, Davis followed up on the modal experimentation of Milestones by basing Kind of Blue entirely on modality, departing further from his earlier work's hard bop style of jazz.



      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7T7A7T31eQ&list=RDx7T7A7T31eQ&start_radio=1&t=19



Kind of Blue has been regarded by many critics as the greatest jazz record.

Here is my favorite Lee Morgan until I find a new favorite;


         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr8MXT5f7gw


      

Nsp, I ordered it. "Escape Reality", that fits; I'm looking for cause, not the "Holy Ghost".


Thank you very much.

Choices; which college to attend, which house to buy, which car to own; options; which minimum wage job to take, can I afford an apartment, or do I have to go homeless; those are the options of someone who wishes they had "choices".

Acman and Pryso, what do you think about this one?


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgnnrZfoZS0

As far as I'm concerned, the book is closed on jazz and heroin; "Bird" told them the stuff he shot in his arm, had nothing to do with the way he played his horn, but they wouldn't listen, they thought he was lying and keeping the secret to himself.

However, there is still that mysterious Art Blakey, Blue Note connection in two cases that we know of; never the less, this book is closed.

Nsp, in the cases of Lee Morgan and Miles, there is no real fundamental reason for Heroin use, as there is in the cases of Billie Holliday and "Bird".

A fundamental reason is a pain that won't go away, it keeps returning, that's a pain in the mind, not a physical pain, but one that's even worse.

Both Morgan and Timmons left the Messengers because of drug problems, and it's been said that Blakey introduced them to drugs. Too many things fit there.

Rok, when a scientist is trying to find answers, there is a certain unemotional detachment that drives him on.

Rok, no longer are we talking about jazz musicians, this Buds for you;


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hOyjFyE3Ek&t=35s

Rok, let me tell you what happened on that date; Monk and Miles got into it about something, and Monk walked.

Now here is the funny thing that happened; after Monk walked, Miles had Horace Silver to play like Monk on one of the cuts, and every time I hear that cut, I just know it's Monk, when it's Horace Silver imitating Monk.

Geoffkait, I rolled down the windows and let some air in, you can breath easy now.

I've got the best of Lee Morgan which does not have that tune, now I have to get "Sidewinder" again because I can't find it. I know I had the LP a long time ago. I never bought the CD.

Rok, you're getting as good as Frogman in twisting my words; they were quite specific and explicit.

Frogman, I'm positive that you would have said it was Monk in a blind test, but that can never be proven, because it can never happen, and in a hypothetical case you are  never wrong.

I'm listening to Diane Schuur; "The Man I Love". I have never heard this song sung before with such depth and sincerity. She's not singing a song, she's sharing with us her deepest emotions, and what she would do if she met "The Man She Loved".


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d80CT75ovqg


She became a drug addict; what I call a "legitimate drug addict", that's someone who has reasons, or a need to "escape reality". When reality becomes so overbearing that an individuals mind is about to explode, there is a reason to either escape it or go insane; that is when a psychiatrist would prescribe something as effective as heroin to relieve his patients suffering.

It's an honor to participate on a jazz thread with such astute aficionados. Pjw stated;

"I can easily decipher Monk on the title track. Silver and Monk are easily discernable."

I played the CD and duplicated his experience; therefore, that was not the album on which the alleged incident occurred.



In order to relay to you how "the alleged incident" occurs, which has occurred many times, I have to explain how I listen to music. Rarely do I put a CD in, and my record player is in storage. I simply settle back in my listening chair and turn on the computer "play-list", which I listen to for hours.

The computer is in the basement, while my listening room is on the ground floor. (Line level signals can be transmitted up to 80 feet using RG8 and USB.) Consequently, I have to identify the artist by ear alone, otherwise I have to get up and go down to the basement and check the "play-list" to verify the artist. If I identify the artist wrong, nobody is going to shoot me.

The experience I relayed to my friend Rok, had occurred numerous times before I discovered why it occurred. One thing is for certain, it was not on that album; my mistake. I simply relayed the experience to a friend, never thinking I would have to verify it.

If "every" time I hear this, I'm positive it's Monk, when in reality it's Horace Silver, there is a reason. The same thought always comes into my mind, "Would Frogman be fooled as well", and the answer to that question is; we would all have to be in the same room doing a blind listening test, because there is no way the Frogman would admit that he was deceived when the correct answer was right in front of him.

If anyone does not believe that Horace Silver can "comp" behind Miles Davis exactly like Monk, to the extent that everyone would think it was Monk, I got a bridge to sell them.

Legitimate, when a doctor prescribes something to relieve his patients pain.  When the mental anguish is beyond our comprehension.

Acman, I listened to Bobby Mcferrin with tears in my eyes, I was a medic in USAF; God knows I've witnessed all kinds of pain.

Ghosthouse, that is the most unusual grouping I've ever seen.

I thought "Music From Our Soul" was quite interesting.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioKSZhYc_iE&list=PLIprspV8mpL6SmXiRZruchPUD6WlYbrnV&index=1

Geoffkait, this might be the wrong thread to get that question answered.

As many LP's I have by Rudy, I never made that distinction. For a minute or two I got off into nit picking about record differences, and decided it was too much trouble.

Millercarbon, your ears are 180 degrees out from mine and millions of other people who trashed their old TT's and sold their records.

I didn't sell my records but trashed the TT. Without going into a lot of detail, I am presently waiting for a spare $600 bucks for 2 NOS tubes that are the only one's which suit my phono. Correction "Upscale" raised the price to $350 apiece.

Analog nirvana comes at a steep price; a price that puts me temporarily out of commission.


I am absolutely positive that what you presented would not meet my requirements.

Herbie Hancock sailed through all sub jazz genres with flying colors; he is probably the most innovative keyboardist ever. That is some boss "Funk".

Rok, Stitt really has a beautiful tone on that record.

Alex, most of my records are original, and me and Rok bought the best 100 jazz tunes that were on CD, and those new CD's are better than my original records.

I have a "Marantz" CD player that's rated "Class A" by Stereophile.