Jazz for aficionados
Keegiam, I saw "Trane", Elvin Jones, and McCoy Tyner when "My Favorite Things" was new, and our table was less than 20 feet away. Trane played the Soprano Sax on this date and the whole gang was smoking; that was unforgettable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWYWgda5f0I |
As I recall, it was in February of 63; me and my date, my friend and his date, went to the club in his girlfriend's brand new 63 powder blue, Buick LeSabre. ( I always liked to ride in style, no matter who’s car). The club was Gino’s, St. Louis, MO. 5611 Delmar at Clara. We had a table as close to the bandstand as you could get; which was just an open area in the center of the room, that gave as many people as possible a close view of the artists. Every professional musician in St. Louis was there, minus girlfriend. Kenny Rice, a professional drummer sat at our table, it was nice to have a professional musician at our table, we looked to him when "Trane" lost us, and that did occur. We saw what you saw on the clip I posted, but that was not the same set. What was not on that clip was when "Trane" did his thing that all those professional musicians came to see and hear; that was when he took his "Trane" trip to the 7th Galaxy, and lost the rest of the crew. McCoy Tyner looked at Elven Jones, as if to say; "You just hang with me buddy, and we’ll get through this". My date looked at me, I looked at Kenny Rice; he said, with a look on his face like he was in the 7th Galaxy with "Trane", that it was a "Trane Thang", and for 8 minutes we hung out with "Trane" in the 7th Galaxy. After communing with all the professional musicians, "Trane" came back to earth, but from the looks on all the musicians who came to see and hear "Trane", they were still in the 7th Galaxy. |
This is "Trane" doing his "Trane Thang" two years after I saw him live. By this time, McCoy Tyner and Elvin jones knew how to deal with it; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsBbM5PIAHk |
At this stage in my life, you would have to pay me to go to a live performance. In my time we went to night clubs as opposed to auditoriums. You would have to pay me double for going to an auditorium. I spent 20 years getting my rig to please me; my listening chair is the best seat in the house, and I don't intend to leave it. |
Rok, when I retold that Coltrane story, this is the first time I mentioned the 63 Buick LaSabre. It was a convertible, powder blue with a white top. That didn't mean much in the Winter, but never the less, it was a sharp car. I bet you don't remember what a 63 LaSabre looked like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=189Jja2Mikw I really liked cars in them days; didn't you? |
My last two cars have been ford, present car is a Ford Taurus. My dream cars are 56 convertible chevy, and 57 convertible Fairlane 500; those are the one's I lusted for. I can't tell one car from another today, but since I only go to the grocery store and the Doctors office, it doesn't matter. Back to jazz, I was listening to Lou Donaldson, Grant Green, and Baby Face Willette; they really put me in a groove; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFMfAJKUOUE |
Rok, my uncle bought a 57 Plymouth Fury in 57, and he wanted to visit some people in Cape Girardeau, MO, which is 117 miles from St. Louis. My older cousin drove us down there and back on a 2 lane highway. We partied with some people he knew until just before daylight, and I climbed in the back seat and went to sleep on the way back. I woke up with the wind whistling past the car like a tornado; I looked over my cousins shoulder at the speedometer, and he was doing a solid 110 on a 2 lane highway. The wind was whistling but the car was rock steady, those high fins functioned like fins on an airplane at high speed. I went back to sleep with the thought that if something goes wrong, I'll never know it. "Christine" was a Plymouth Fury; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4koPfEQVo44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZgklIqKG1g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4rv3kMUBf4&list=PLcBCx_cNK4RQgYKg7AyWkgDZW-DLOSPSX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikt5kHFUYcg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWCIZvD7PxY https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1958-PLYMOUTH-FURY-CUSTOM-2-DOOR-HARDTOP-81936 |
I have all the best "Doo Wop" on one long tape. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvzNeh4Mq1o&list=PL2t8WTXg8nxNHwndQbud_g5RjTGRSiP73 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IePTH1PWzAs Plus the best of "Johnny Ace" on LP. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5rvJKviwaE |
That is the way Johnny Ace went, and so young. His LP is in good shape. I no longer make any great distinction between LP and CD, if the LP I have, which I had before CD is good, fine; if not I think I'll replace it with CD. My LP of "Here Tis" is noisy; I noticed that Amazon has the CD which I will order. |
"WAR" is a group we touched on a few times, but now I'm giving them a serious listen, which they deserve because they have put out some seriously good music. "Fidel's Fantasy" is my top pick, but there are others that I like almost as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA0b87tWshc This is about ten steps above what we consider "Pop", and it gets my undivided attention. "Papa" Dee Allen – conga, bongos, percussion, vocals (monologue on "Fidel's Fantasy") Harold Brown – drums, percussion, vocals B.B. Dickerson – bass, vocals (lead on "Sun Oh Son") Lonnie Jordan – organ, piano, percussion, vocals (lead on "Lonely Feelin'") Charles Miller – flute, alto sax, baritone sax, tenor sax, percussion, vocals (lead on "Back Home") Lee Oskar – harmonica, vocals The World is a Ghetto" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptIcert_Ra8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dUFin2ORpg |
Rok, one of the things that made that movie "Christine" so powerful was the music; we didn't have tape players in the car in 57, so you listened to what ever was on the radio, and no matter what your genre of choice was, you heard the "soundtrack" from the movie "Christine" if you listened to the radio. My uncle's Fury was creme and gold. Correction on how fast my cousin was driving, he was doing 120 for over the 100 mile trip, we made it back in 45 minutes. https://www.google.com/search?q=speedometer+57+fury&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS858US858&sxsrf=ACYBGNRck... |
Santana was playing when I clicked on your post; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AELE1a-3Bxo He was playing in the background of 1969; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_SOAdAxFfo That was the summer of "Smoke outs" in the park (Forest Park); what a delightful year. "At ease soldier, smoke em if you got em" |
Rok, the effects of psychology, sociology, and economics are intertwined in a fashion that only highly educated people who have studied these things understand. Most people now days start off with answers before they ask questions, and politicians have answers that benefit them personally, which many people believe. My short answer is to begin with economics and proceed from there. One can use "google" for that purpose. |
Ghosthouse, I got into jazz in the Summer of 1956 when I lived with my older cousin on the South side of Chicago. That's when the "Southside" was like a city unto itself, and a Mecca for jazz; you could just walk down a neighborhood street and hear the sounds of jazz coming out of open windows. (No AC's; walk peacefully down streets) My cousin purchased the best available current jazz every week. That was my introduction to jazz. The reason I mention this is to illustrate how long I have avidly been listening to jazz. After listening to so many great jazz musicians for so long, a lot of what has followed sounds "Stereotypical" to me; meaning that it sounds like so much that I've heard before, even when it's very good, and what you presented was very good. Tony Williams is a fantastic drummer, but the music sounds like so much jazz that I've heard before. Somehow "Ahmad Jamal" manages to quite often get past sounding like what I've heard before. Ironically, he headed the house band, exactly 3 blocks from where I was living on the South Side of Chicago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOAepSLbohs |
Rok, you and I have more than a passing acquaintance with the church and the Bible; that doesn't mean we can't become criminals, but it does put a limit on what we will or will not do. Deprived people become depraved people. Now we're maybe talking about 3rd generation deprived, who are living in the midst of like minded people. They're concept of life is beyond my comprehension, it might be like in that science fiction movie "A Boy And His Dog" There is a distinct correlation between those people, and the fact that you will have to wait in a long line for your "Mega Yacht", and the fact that the line is growing. |
Rok, I have both of those on my "play list". This might be the first time they were posted. Somehow Chuck Mangione makes me feel good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N8FA1S-5KU |
Try this for a groove; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt83ZnWAeVk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFOc9N1kXKA |
Pjw, since this thread began, we have talked about everything under the sun. The way this works is that you simply ignore what you don't like and it will go away; however, it will stick around as long as you comment on it. Quite often the "Deleter in chief" comes around without warning and deletes everything, so that's another thing you can count on. In regard to Steve Coleman, I liked Country Bama, it was long and the way he developed the theme and worked it, made the music interesting. I don't want you to take this personal, everyone knows how I feel about standards; when a musician plays a standard in such a fashion that it's unrecognizable, I feel they should have put a different name on it and claimed it as their own. Such was the case with "Round Midnight". |
This Bud's for you Schubert; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSQyp_osl30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcrslLTsc2U&t=33s |
Rok, I had a good friend who was also a professional musician who had that problem; consequently I saw the problem up close and personal, something no one ever wants to see. There are many misconceptions about drugs and jazz musicians; number one is that they use drugs to play better. That's a flat out lie. While they can't play if they don't get it, they can't play if they get to high; but they are the most incredible musicians I've ever heard when they're just right. Drugs have zilch to do with the musician; he or she would have become a drug addict whether they became a musician or not. Charley Parker was using before he became a musician. Billie Holiday had experiences that are fundamentally the reason behind so many drug addicts. Physical pain is gone once it's gone, but mental anguish never goes away, it keeps coming back, and "dope" is the only way to temporarily escape it. Of course there are a multitude of other reasons why people use dope, I just gave the reason that almost guarantees a dope addict. Incredible musicians and "dope" is just a coincidence, or what ever drives them to use dope also drives them to become incredible musicians, but it's for sure "dope" doesn't help them play better. Since I have that album, I'll get back to you about the music after I've listened to it again. |
Dee Dee is so creative; here she is Paris France with an African twist;I love it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfzn0bSObFk |
Schubert, one of the strangest experiences I've ever had is related to Vietnam. This was at a New Years Eve party, 68 or 69, and a fellow sitting across from me struck up a conversation. He was about 24, well dressed, soft spoken, good looking, had a soft smile on his face. As he spoke, I began to look into his eyes, and shivers went all through my body. That's when I began to talk to myself; "It's early, I haven't had anything to drink yet, I just looked into that guys eyes and my blood froze." There was nothing outwardly intimidating about this person, but when I looked into his eyes again, the same thing happened all over again; it was like looking at the face of death. After I discovered he was just back from Vietnam, I put two and two together; the eyes are the window to the soul, there was no telling what he had experienced in Nam, and it was still with him. I've never been to Nam, and I know a lot more about it than I would ever want to talk about, that guy experienced more than anyone would ever want to talk about. |
Rok, that's "real jazz", not imitation jazz. Imitation jazz is when some dude who's been to "julee yard" hears real jazz and says "I can play that". Sure enough, he can play it. and to the uninitiated, it sounds like the real thing. But just like a jeweler can tell the difference between a fake diamond and the real thing, so can a true blue "aficionado" tell the difference between the sound alike and the real deal. The "real deal" comes from within, not without, and if you ain't got it within, it can not come out; but if you been to "Julee Yard" you can probably play the notes off your instrument, and therefore come up with the best fake jazz anyone has ever heard. I have two different albums of this music; one that showcases Jackie McLean, and another with different musicians except for Freddie Redd. Both albums have the same cuts, but different musicians. Right now I'm listening to the one with Jackie Mac. I assume you also want to know how the other album with different musicians sounds. The album with the musicians listed at the bottom is the other album. I'll get back to you tomorrow with a full review. Freddie Redd - Piano Howard McGhee - Trumpet Tina Brooks - Tenor Sax Milt Hinton - Bass Osie Johnson - Drums |
Rok, like you pointed out Chuck Mangione, there is another artist that had his time in the Sun at about that same time, and that's Eumir Deodato. I have a number of his cuts on my "play list". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRPzvgugShI&list=PLG9jLl6Ldd_gJ8vwZKDPOmudIuLp-EMiS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boXD-tsBuOA |
I'm hearing more albums better than KOB by accident; here is a candidate; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrqb0373cVs |
The best sax solo ever, is the one by "Joe Henderson" on Grant Green's "Idle Moments". The cut "Idle Moments" was supposed to have been only 7 minutes long, but when Joe Henderson got in his groove, and it was apparent the cut was going to go over, Rudy Van Gelder, the recording engineer, who was also in the groove, decided that there was no way he was going to stop this, so he let Joe blow until Joe stopped. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq0m0hbCjFQ |
Sometime when I hear Grant Green, I almost break out in tears. I knew Grant Green, I can't say I was a friend, but his best friend and fellow musician was a close friend of mine. Some of the reasons I break out in tears are too personal to reveal, but one of the reasons is how tragic his personal life was, and the fact that he should have been rich. Grant Green was a man of the streets, and as such, that was the way he lived. I knew and heard him even before he made his first record. He was a star in and around St. Louis before "Blue Note" came and got him. Grant's music that I heard isn't even recorded, except in my mind, I heard Grant Green play for Grant Green; it sounded like he was crying on the inside and trying to soothe his tears. |
When I was in the Air Force, in 1960, my room mate brought KOB for us to share for the first time. I liked it, and he thought it was spectacular; he was the first of the KOB breed. It's been a long time since 1960, and so many boss LP's have gone past these ears since that time; it would stand to mathematical reason that one of them would be better than KOB. Rok, when you hear people talking about how many special LP's they have of KOB, you know what conclusion to come to when it comes to jazz. I rest my case. |
In high school, I took physics, chemistry and Algebra III. In algebra III you had to solve several different complex problems before you could even begin to answer the question. That meant you had to set up the equation at each step of the game. In each one of those subjects there was only "one" answer to the question. This is not physics, chemistry, or algebra III; this is jazz, the answer to the question has to be provided by "you", not me but "you". Nothing is more comical to me, than the fact that others look to a resident "Guru", who has musical knowledge comparable to those who have graduated from "Julee- Yard", for answers. If this was chemistry, physics, or algebra III, that would make all the sense in the world, but this is not an absolute science; jazz is abstract music created by musicians who may not even know where or what "Julee - Yard" is; they create music from the soul. Our resident "Guru" and myself are on opposite ends of the musical spectrum, that's well known. There are a multitude of questions he can answer in regard to the mechanics of music, but he can not answer questions that fall into the "metaphysical" realm of music. This post might seem to indicate an element of envy regarding our resident "Guru", but I consider it to be a statement of fact. You draw your conclusions from that, and whatever conclusions you draw are correct. |
“I never even thought about whether or not they understand what I'm doing . . . the emotional reaction is all that matters as long as there's some feeling of communication, it isn't necessary that it be understood.” John Coltrane That's what John Coltrane said, and now some one posted this thread; Help me understand John Coltrane .... seriously. That thread has 113 posts. Can you guess why I have not posted on that thread? |
Pjw, thanks for alerting me to that LP, which is how I'll get it; the soul of the horn and the musician is best on vinyl, but CD is good too. Those artists have jelled so well together that each one of them is a star, although Dexter Gordon and Donald Byrd's solos stands out; that makes them a star among stars. Every aficionado I talked to who knew Dexter, told me he was playing himself in the movie "Round Midnight"; there was no acting involved, we were watching Dexter being Dexter. I will get that ASAP, probably CD, and shop for the LP. |
Not the best albums ever, but one of the best cuts ever; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbaGDDbpcQ4 |
Modern jazz, while being music, is also a form of communication above and beyond all spoken languages; that's why Bobby Timmons "Moanin" can communicate with people everywhere around the world, no need to speak English, this tune is communicated in the language of music, it's universally understood around the world. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNjRQo-zpKA This "music" is communicating "down and out". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv9NSR-2DwM Modern jazz communicates a range of thoughts and emotions that can not be communicated by the best linguist in whatever language; all you gotta do is listen. |
Rok, I don't mean to belittle others taste in music, but there ain't no gravel roads in St. Louis. I think this is where you're coming from. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgnnrZfoZS0 |
