Forget about the 60 wpc rating. In fact, it will also easily eclipse those figures running EL34 output tubes. As the literature says, the numbers are incredibly conservative. Think of the traditional Rolls Royce answer in regards to their horsepower figures, which was given with a most confident smile, "Adequate."
The Jadis DA60 is a beast. The proverbial iron fist in a velvet glove. It's truly one of the finest audio amplifiers from the standpoint of both build and sound, and will go toe to toe against anything.
Another thing, you have to remember the amplifier operates in Class A, which normally looks half as powerful as Class AB on paper even if that totally goes against real world seat of the pants power.
As an example, I've also owned the Orchestra Reference and DA30. The JOR is rated at 40 wpc (or, I was told via e-mail with the company, 52 wpc with the KT90 tubes I had) in Class AB, while the DA30 is rated at 30 wpc in pure Class A. Regardless of the numbers, the DA30 walks away from the JOR ala its superior transformers, power supply, and circuit.
Currently, I own the DA30 and DA60. In direct comparison, I feel the DA30 is probably a bit more sweet. So far, I cannot totally put my finger as to why. It could be because it's an older vintage, and like most audio components, the direction of things has been more resolution, clarity, refinement, etc., and sometimes, less romance and musicality. Or, it could be that the midrange of the DA30 stands out more simply because the DA60 offers such absolutely incredible low frequency performance.
Compare it to ANY 2 6550/KT88/KT90 tube per channel amp, and all of your skepticism will immediately vanish. |
I own a DA50Signature rated at "only" 30 watts, it is a pure class A design using four KT88 output tubes - it handles my power hungry Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage at easy, just as my previous Gryphon pre/power combo with the virtues of tubes.
The DA60 is a very powerfull amp, I understand it does not run all times at Class A (but I might be wrong here) and power should not be any issue with it for a medium listening area.
Hope this helps. |
Thanks guys, PS I wasn't being skeptical was really just curious about the 8 tubes versus 4 tubes. Trelja, may Iask what speakers you drive with these amps? I have Tyler Linbrook System 2s 89db 8 ohm |
Facten, I apologize for giving the impression that you were skeptical.
My own speakers are pretty efficient, they're older Coincidents. That being said, it helps to have some power to get the 10" woofers not just playing, but flapping around and pumping out some serious bass. To that end, I've yet to have another tube amplifier outclass the DA60. Even one that is rated for 75+ wpc in pure Class A that a well experienced reviewer felt were twice as strong as that.
After hearing the new Wilson Sashas two weeks ago, and being truly blown away by them, the question after how I could afford them was that owning them would pretty much necessitate me moving away from the type of amplification (low-moderately powered transformer coupled tube) I feel is the best for me, and how would I handle that. Then, my buddy turned to me, and said, "Hey, that DA60 should suit the bill perfectly." Indeed!
A friend of mine, The Doctor (Mechans), uses his DA60 with a pair of JMlabs. He basically sought out a DA60 because he was so impressed that a tube amp could put out that kind of low end performance and smooth, clean, composed, beautiful power.
Trust me, when you see the DA60 in person, its massive transformers will make you take notice. Then, when you go to pick the amp up, you'll know it's got it where it counts. |
I don't want to hijack this thread, but can anyone comment on the differences between the DA60 and the DA88. Both have similar specs. |
Trelja - no need to apologize, and thanks for the added insights. |
Phaelon - The design pholosphy behind both of them is quite different, The DA60 is a Class A/AB design where power is key in the decision process, the DA88S (or my own DA50S) are pure class A designs (more recent models in the Jadis line) where the benefits of class A is important (more liquidity, better textured and relaxed presentation).
I am not saying that the DA88S sounds better than the DA60, it is just a matter of deciding the balance you are looking for in power and delicacy variables, any of them will serve you well in any system configuration and are great amps in the market by all means. |
Thank you Flg2001. Not wanting to oversimplify things, but are you saying that the DA60 is the more dynamic of the two while the Da88 is more nuanced and refined? |
Flg2001, where are you getting your information about the DA60 operating in Class A/B?
Jadis has always advertised the DA30 and DA60 as operating in pure Class A. The power consumption figures are listed as being the same as their respective counterparts, the DA50S and DA88S. I can't speak to the DA60 or DA88S in terms of bias with any authority as I've not measured them on the bench, but from getting my Defy DA30 together, it's Class A. Indeed, I was told by a fellow I correspond with at the factory that the Defy DA30 that I own (built in 1990), which is the original Jadis integrated, is biased the most heavily into Class A of all of the integrated iterations, and more reflective of earlier Jadis philosophy if you know what I mean. Overall, the DA60 seems to be mostly of the same mind (there surely are differences, circuitwise, some of which more meaningful than others), apart from doubling the tube count and upping the transformers considerably.
I'm not necessarily refuting you, but I was told the newer generation represents some tidy improvements in both circuit and implementation (for example, a more elegant and efficient selector control) as well as details which provide more optimization with the focus on using KT88 (and 6550/KT90) output tubes, whereas the older variety run very well (I would say optimally) with EL34/6CA7/KT77 tube types. The newer amps supposedly also run the smaller tubes, but for whatever reason, the larger ones are recommended. Anyway, I'm told these things result in what they like to call a more "black and white", as opposed to "grey", kind of sound - see my more clarity, detail, etc., and perhaps bit less romance and sweetness ala the general trend in high-end audio through the past decade. In general, as you said, more reflective of how Jadis thinking has evolved towards the current time.
Why do they offer both old and new product lines? Though I've asked several people, I've never gotten what I consider a good answer from anyone on that. |
Phaelon - I have had the opportunity to hear them all - either in my own systems, or at friend's installations, and some at the local dealer show rooms. Both the DA60 and the DA88s produce a very dynamic presentation and handle almost all kind of speaker load and sensitivities with easy, to my ears the DA88s is more refined and textured, which might seem apealing to some since others would lean towards a more solid articulation of notes and a tad better attack of the DA60 - again - both are excellent and would not stand on the one-is-better-than-the-other camp at all.
Trejla - My appologies for the confusion I created on the A/AB design - reading again and checking with the Jadis dealer he confirmed, as you also said, that both are pure class A implementations and the difference in design reside in some better parts selection on transformers and shortest signal paths of the more expensive Signature desgins.
Finaly - I decided for the DA50S over the DA88S because of the additional purity I got from just two tubes per side against 4 per side which was noticable at least for me for the kind of material I listen the most (Jazz, Early Music and Blues).
Fernando |
Thanks for the clarification, Fernando.
As I put in my first post, I hear the same thing you did in the DA50S versus DA88S comparison in my DA30 versus DA60. The DA30 does sound more sweet and probably more natural, though for the reasons I already stated, I cannot totally say as to why. |
Trelja - After 30 years in this hobby, one clear lesson I have received is that system matching is far more critical than independently picking the "best" component at each link of the chain - there is surely a better balance with your sources and speakers with the DA30 than with the DA60.
It took me almost 3 years to return to a well-balanced system since I left a nice Pass/Avalon/Wadia/VPI combination until now with the Jadis/Reimyo/Sonus Faber/Avid based system, expensive lesson for sure. :-)
Take care, |
Wound up purchasing an Ayon Spirit 2 , couldn't work the finances for a DA60. The Spirit 2 is very well built, and although I only have about 15 hours on it, very musical, good separation and decay, etc. most of all it is very enjoyable listening to music driven by this amp -looking forward to it breaking in. Came with new production Gold Lion KT88s and I passed on installing the new stock EH 12au7s - amp takes 4 - instead I am trying NOS Sylvania's - 5814s and ECC82s - one of each on each side - so far so good. Will try some RFTs after awhile. Outstanding customer service from the folks at USA Tube Audio. |
DA60! My first 'real' amp! Believe it or not, I had it during my college years! I had a Wadia 6i CD Player, DA60 and B&W Silver Signature. What a very memorable setup. |
Which of these integrated amps would mate best with Quad 57s? Of course,
the Quads do not need more than 30 watts so I'm also intersted in knowing
whether the JA 30 mono blocks would be an even better choice. |
Lula - In my case, I have had in my system two Jadis amps so far with the Sounus Faber Guarneri's - the DA50S and a pair of JA30. Both handle the speakers very well in my mid-sized room.
Class A amps deliver more than its rated output (I can't explain why) but my late amp was an Acoustic Plan Sitar (which was great with my Avantgarde speakers) but too polite on the Guarneris, it was rated at 40 Watts per channel. |
Trelja, with a 89db speaker with a very smooth impedance curve and only a 6 1/2" woofer, do you think the DA30 might be a better sounding amp the DA60 simply on the basis of simplicity with 1/2 the tubes? |
Hope things are well, Pubul57. I presume the speakers your speakers are still Merlins?
Presuming the speakers are Merlins, either of the two amplifiers will be fine, though they will sound different. The DA30 will be a touch sweeter, with subtly better midrange. Aside from your having ever used a solid state muscle amp, the DA60 will likely produce the best low end you've heard with them, though quite different than that of an OTL design, and still retain that beautiful midrange and overall sound you buy a tube amplifier for.
It's really a question of where your tastes lie. As for me, I ALWAYS prefer to hear two components next to each other myself. I don't care who they are, no other person can really provide If you're within driving distance, feel free to get together for the purpose of evaluating which amp you prefer with your loudspeakers. |
Yup. Still (will always be?) using the Merlins. I currently have Atma M60s and the Music Reference RM9SE becuase I like them both. I've wanting to have an integrated amp and I have been thinking of the Jadis for a while, since I tried the Ars Sonum. I'm looking for the best mid-powered (30-40 watts) 4 power tube amps I can find. For some reason (maybe some of you older threads)it sounded like Jadis was the direction to go in. I live in Baltimore - is that driving distance? |
Yes, it's driving distance. I'm in the Philadelphia area, if you're up for it, we'd just have to hammer out the details.
I also have a pair of Atma M60s, and for what it's worth, am comfortable in laying out all the differences between them and the two Jadis integrateds for you. At a high level, it comes down to the classic differences between OTL and transformer coupled tube amps, kind of a vanilla versus chocolate thing, and my mantra is, "That's why they make both of them." |
That sounds like an excellent idea, great that you have the OTLs to compare with. And then there is also the Jadis da-50src and one wonders what that might bring to the table - a move to KT88 I guess. I could also bring the Music Referenc RM9 Special Edition which I think is one of the better "high-powered" (162 watts) P/P ultralinear tube amps. I'll contact you via e-mail. |
Am planning to buy the da 50 signature edition . Could anybody let me know if it can drive my Salk song towers 84 db 4 ohm speaker
any suggestions regarding the matching
thank you |
