@erik_squires
look up Paradigm CC-290. That’s what he is talking about.
look up Paradigm CC-290. That’s what he is talking about.
It is not you, the sound really is getting worse
Showing 7 responses by spenav
Dialogues in movies soundtracks on discs have issues. It’s a well known fact. Most people setting up their home theater systems raise the center channel by 4 to 6 dB. Even regular channels like CNN etc have to be raised accordingly. Added to the problem is the design of a lot of center channel speakers. The two midrange drivers with the tweeter in the middle is not a good design in terms of dialogue clarity. If you are into movies, you need to up the budget for the center channel speaker. I used three identical speakers for left, right and center to good effect in addition to raising the level of the center by 4 dB. |
@erik_squires Hi E My experiences with this design have been negative. Dr Toole seems to agree. I am glad it has worked for you. I will try to attach a quote from him below from his excellent book, Sound Reproduction. If you have the book, he talks about it extensively in chapter 18. I have two AR4c in my closet eating dust if you are interested in buying. I usually feel bad selling things that don’t work well for me Stay safe. Thanks. “The simple one, often called the “midrange-tweeter-midrange” or MTM, arrangement is usually found in entry-level products but also, occasionally, in some expensive products. In its basic configuration of both woofers operating in parallel, crossing over to a tweeter—a two-way design—it is not optimum because of off-axis acoustical interference.” — Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms (Audio Engineering Society Presents) by Floyd Toole https://a.co/90gpvoL |
@erik_squires Hi E I have used several iterations of that design in my system with little success. The last time I tried using two speakers in a kind of horizontal array with two AR4c. It was better but still not totally free of distortion. From time to time I was still left wondering what was the actor saying. And my speaker was not in a cabinet by the way. In that quote I referred to, Toole was talking specifically of center channels. I am glad that yours sounds fine. I thought about designing my own too but got discouraged at the end. Then I realized the solution was in front of my eyes all along. My front speakers are Audience 1+1, they have zero crossover distortion due to the fact that they have no crossover to start with and they are clear as a bell. They use a single full range driver that can go down to about 100 hertz in my system where they crossover to my four ML subs. So I got one more and now the center channel intelligibility is a solved problem in my system. Here are some more quotes from Toole about a design solution for the MTM design. “These designs also show up in vertical arrangements, in which case the acoustical interference is heard after reflection from the floor and ceiling. An intermediate configuration, sometimes called the 2 ½-way, rolls off one of the woofers at a low frequency, allowing the second unit to function as a midrange. The result is a slight improvement in overall performance, but the horizontal-plane interference pattern is then asymmetrical and still not what is needed. The real solution is to add a midrange loudspeaker allowing both woofers to be crossed over at a frequency sufficiently low that the acoustical interference is avoided. The explanation is in the caption.” I cannot copy the caption but it shows the design with the midrange driver in the middle with the tweeter on top of it. I will find a way to include a picture later. Hope that helps. |
Sorry for the confusion about my use of the word distortion. I am talking about it in generic terms. You and Toole are using it in a more polished way than I am. I talked about it as whatever changes the original signal. I know you are kidding about creating the perfect center but you just might have. If the dialogue is clear and intelligible then you have accomplished the goal. Problem solved. I went a different way but am very happy with the results. I have always have an aversion to passive crossover. I am ok with active. I am familiar with the D’Appolito design and while it has solved a lot of the problems with TM and MT configurations, it introduces its own difficulties in regards to crossover and drivers distances and sizes. Guess nothing is easy and implementation does count for something 😊. Glad you pulled it off. Stay safe. |