Isolation vs. Absorbtion

"Ringing" is a myth.
Unless you plan to practice drumming on your stand during listening sessions, "ringing" DOES NOT OCCUR in a metal framed stand.What a rigid,spiked metal framed rack does do is to lower vibrational amplitude via the small points of contact with high energy sources providing an energy/vibration bottleneck.The natural resonant characteristic of steels will filter the energy into relatively high, primarily even order frequency bands that the shelf material and component "suspension" can more easily damp.Adding mass and damping material only provides the energy a storage medium where those energies are re-released back into the system at unpredicatable low frequency rates and over a longer timeframe, thus imposing itself into the music for a longer period before decaying and having greater power to disrupt component operation and the musical signal.Low frequencies have enormous power and cannot be stopped regardless of the amount of mass or type of damping material used.The remedy is to have structure that does not couple well to those frequency rates, hence the need for low mass design.
Stands from reputable manufacturers such as Standesign, Apollo,Mana, Audiotech, Sound Organisation, Target,etc., all accomplish the task very well. Their primary disadvantage has always stemed from the relatively simple shelving required to meet a broad market pricepoint rather than any imagined "ringing' problem.
Best,
Ken
GreaterRanges/Neuance

Hi Dekay,
Mana Acoustics,argueably the best built traditional style ferrous stand on the market(glass shelf character notwithstanding) uses an open L construction as well.There is an advantage to using open constructions rather than tubular and that is in reduction of "chamber" resonances.I consider this type of energy transfer relatively benign but they do impact on the ultimate effectivenss of the stand to a small degree(Somewhere recently Redkiwi stated his own findings that would seem to support this).Your approach should mostly be concerned for structural rigidity(particularly in the lateral/diagonal and a relatively low overall mass.
A little damping goes a very long ways to controlling any frequency related spikes by the strategic application of a small blob of blu tac to the legs/crossmembers or an inch or so of non clumping kitty litter/sand in a tubular construction stand.
Best,
Ken

Dr A,
I keep hearing mention of these fabulous technologies and for some curious reason,they are always linked to Systrum/Audiopoint products.
Would you explain what is new or radical about the principles involved or even just the basic concepts behind the product?
The Systrum looks like a decent rapid evacuation device but I see absolutely nothing to indicate any major advancement or breakthru technology.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
I would LOVE to discuss isolation theory with you.
;^)
Best,
Ken
GreaterRanges/Neuance

Dr.A,
While I had some time to wander away from my suite at T.H.E.Show on Saturday,I stopped by Starsounds room and gave the Systrum a look and listen in rm #1506.I found it interesting, even promising, considering the variables of doing these shows.
For the sake of the good people that are the real audiogon forum members, please expand on your previous statements that extoll on the virtues of the Systrum stand.
Why don't you tell us about the technology,since that seems to be the whole thrust of these testimonials?
Does it have something to do with the cute "Clef" design?
Better yet and more importantly,what do you think the Systrum does in your own system?
What are it's primary musical contributions and character?
What is the "difference" you heard? Why would someone want or need the device?
Please be specific. I rather not hear the pseudo scientific or commercial tripe that has been bandied about so freely to date.Just an honest assesment is all I ask.
Also ,do you have commercial ties to the company? I notice that you are currently selling an awful lot of JMLabs speakers ,Transparent and Straightwire cables,etc for being a typical hobbyist. Could it be that you have a Starsound/Systrum/Audiopoints dealership as well?

-Having a great time.
Best,
Ken Lyon
GreaterRanges/Neuance
www.neuanceaudio.com/

DrA,
Perhaps a simple "tag" at the end of a post would suffice when speaking on topics and products where those that might have a commercial interest are involved?
That has been my own approach and it seems to be an easy way for folks to weight my opinions.
My concern is that this forum not loose its value to its readers because of encroaching commercialism.I consider it a valuable, informative and entertaining resource for AG's community of audio hobbyists.
When I can assist or inform without actively promoting my business I often do so.
I also blather for my personal entertainment about non business related topics as any hobbyist would do without necessarily feeling the need to announce my background.
If my joining into a topic would result in actions that might be considered commercial activism, I will refrain from entering the thread.
In addition, I believe it would be acceptable to speak of my product/business ONLY if I respond to direct questions or to correct misstatements and always and only ON POINT.
Another area that should be acceptable is offering opinion and advice in the areas of general principles,applications and technologies in our given area(s) of expertice, again provided that we not advocate our own products specifically.
With honesty, respect and openness, I think that industry participation can be a positive thing for Audiogon but unrestrained commercialism would be a negative and even destructive element.
I hope you agree with me.
Best,
Ken Lyon
(caterham1700)
GreaterRanges/Neuance

Rcm,
Thank you most kindly for posting the Inner Ear report.
I find your Coulomb based model intriguing.
I am,however,*as yet* unconvinced that my own assessment of the mechanisms at work differs to any significant degree in the actual application(ie-rapid evacuation/selective broadband filtering/damping within the leg structure/rigid grounding to earth).
In the development of my own product, I use a model which aligns itself quite closely in philosophy with that which you propose tho the approach is signifcantly different.The main thing is that those models work consistantly and predictably for each of us.
I found conceptual agreement in your T.H.E. Show sample and wish you much success.I believe that we have far more in common than would be indicated by the unforunate turn that this thread has taken.
As I view your product, it is also one of the very few concerned with the preservation of temporal, dynamic and microdynamic qualities of music reproduction as opposed to the preponderance of devices on the market that ulitize the bludgeon approach to isolation or tune for special effects to the detriment of the vitality and communicative qualities of the music.

Regards,
Ken Lyon
GreaterRanges/Neuance

Dr A,
Re:
>>>I didnt know just how many how many sales reps and manufactures work this site to promote.<<<
The only people *working* this site seems to be Starsound.In the months that I have been contributing here,I have let threads regarding my products to develop on their own, without intervention, even when it was being used in ways for which it was never intended.Unlike you, I use the forum for my own entertainment and post on topics unrelated to business.---

>>>"The real issue at hand is that you have questioned my personal credibility and that of the product I belive in..."<<<
The issue is that you have been behaving as a shill for Starsound.I have gone out of my way to avoid commenting on the Systrum's effectiveness,only the manner in which it is being promoted.---

>>>"...what i have discoverd and shared on this site seams to contradict conventional ideas..."<<<
What have you shared?I have asked directly for specific or experiental information pertaining to the sonic character,benefits and theory behind the Systrum device and have yet to receive a reply or answers to my questions from you.By doing so,I have given you the opportunity to share in detail the reasons for your enthusiasm and promote the product in a responsible manner, yet you resort to odd tactics to change to direction of the thread.Maybe you are confusing your "Dr Audio personna" for one of your other pseudonyms?Nowhere do I recall "Dr Audio" offering any explanation of the principles claimed nor even a reply that would indicate that you are familiar with its sonic or musical benefit.---

>>>"I am changing carrers and hope to work directly for starsound..."<<<
Finally, an admission of your commercial ties to the product.See, that wasn't so hard was it? If you had stated so with your first entry, this thread would not have taken the unfortunate course it has.I wish you success in your new endevour.---

>>>"You have said you were in the starsound room, you then being an expert in the feild know it works."<<<
I was not given a full demonstration and as you are aware , the uncertainty of show conditions can be most unfair to even the best of products.I heard a decent sounding room but could not make value judgement or pinpoint the contribution of the Systrum.---

>>>"... am I right, am I studied on this topic, am I honest,and does this systrum rack really work so well."(?)"<<<
Hmmm....perhaps it would be best if I refrain and leave it for others to decide for themselves.

Regards,
Ken Lyon
GreaterRanges/Neuance