2. amps-preamps
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Is too much power in an amp really a problem?

As recently as 8-10 yrs. ago, I maintained my card carrying residence in the ‘lots o’ watts’ camp’ regularly. I’ve since held only a casual attendance to that group, and since departed with the acquisition of higher eff speakers, and lower powered tube amps.

Now I’m debating the future and appropriateness, of that perception and considering another SS, or a non tube amp. This time a digital amp… such as a class D or ICE configuration… as in a Bel Canto, PS Audio, Spectron, Wyred 4 S, etc., to use for both music and HT with my current Silverline speakers.

Several of these amps profess IMO rather high ratings for output power. 250, 300, and 500 wpc into 8 ohms, as your ‘oh by the way’ choices, and then doubling up should the impedance drop off to 4 ohms!

1000 wats per!

E frekin' Gad!

Truth be told, I’ve never put together a high eff speaker & high powered amp combo, nor felt the need, so I’m in a whole new ball game now, or am I?

I understand immense power reservoirs on tap, (like with my former BAT vk500) is a good thing, as well as are other attributes like a good input impedance, and control or damping figures. that amp ran VR4 JRs though, and both have since departed la casa Sunburn.

Additionally, my current tube mono blocks (120wpc) handle my 93db Sonata IIIs quite well IMO. My Odyssey Stratos SE also does a good enough job too rated at about 160 wpc. Between the two amps, the Dodds are the better sounding, and appear to have better control and more ease with the Silverliness.

In making a choice on one of these Digital or ICE amps, should the power numbers be regarded as something other than what they are? I mean more likely, do 250 wpc into 8 ohm rated ICE amps provide likewise results or the same feel, of an SS amp having the same output? Ie., control, power reserves, etc?

I do feel a good match between the speakers and amp is a prime consideration now, and do not wish to buy far too much or too little an amp, given these thoughts.

There too is the thought of the amps actual 'voice' itself to consider.

I sure wouldn’t want to smoke the speaks with too little or too much power on tap. Or have the amp ()s) always loafing. Or is that loafing bit just nonsense?

Any experiences and insights here on the digi power front is more than appreciated as I'm trying to get a 'feel' for this 'new to me' amp topology and not over or under buy.

Thanks much.
blindjim

Showing 7 responses by dcstep

dcstep
1,518 posts
 
Blindjim seemed to be exploring an interesting question and Guido, mentioning several brands other than Rowland, joined in talking, on point, about the issue. Next thing we know, Ill-Will-Bill-Feil comes along to slam Guido and me in one fell swoop.

BTW, in order to save others any need to research me, I own a Rowland Continuum 500 which I use to drive speakers presenting a nominal 4 ohm load, such that the amp has a potential of 1,000 wpc. Maybe poor ole Bill anticipated what I'm going to say next.

I moved up from a C-J putting out around 200 wpc and I've heard the various powered Rowland amps driving the same speakers and noticed a very clear improvement in bass control, in particular, as the power went up. I don't claim to fully understand why, but the best sounding amplifiers to me were the ones delivering more power.

Dave
dcstep
1,518 posts
 
Jim, I think that positive impact of more power is very dependent on the speakers' efficiency and response to damping and power. The first watts loses no importance, but the extra watts are not going to make much difference except with medium and low sensitivity speakers that respond positively to high damping. The extra watts are not there to add volume, but rather to add control. IME, it's pretty easy to hear the positive impact when it's there.

Dave
dcstep
1,518 posts
 
Raquel seems to question Guido's motives, yet he has purchased the very same equipment. Is that an endorsement of Guido or of Ill-Will-Bill??

I suspect, like me, Guido likes his Rowland/VA equipment very much. He also wrote about it. Like the rest of us, Guido invested in his own equipment. I personally know that he had no financial interest in Rowland when he wrote those reviews, other than the cost of buying the equipment, which he actually owns.

He's since reviewed Bel Canto and others on loan, but, like most reviewers, he owns his reference equipment and makes comparative reviews in order to provide some value to the reader. I also personally know that he spends a lot of time seeking out other systems to compare with his and listens to other equipment every chance that he gets.

I value his contributions here. Like any contributor, we come to know his likes and dislikes and take them into account when we read his writings. Whether I'm reading Stereophile, Audio Critic, A'gon or TAS, I take those preferences into account when evaluating the information for my own use. Conflict is unavoidable, othewise all reviewers wouldn't love music enough to own their own systems and would switch from one loaner to another month after month in a dismal pursuit of musical nothingness. I want my reviewers to love music, own their own systems and tell me what's in those systems so that I can then consider that as I read their writings.

Dave
dcstep
1,518 posts
 
I've heard the JRDG Capri/102 driving speakers with "only" 92 dB sensitivity and there was some trouble with too much bloom in the bass. That went away when we upped the power to 500 watts. With 108dB sensitivity I would imagine this combination to be exceptional.

Blindjim was inquiring about lots of power with sensitivity around 93dB. That's a totally different issue vs. speakers with 108dB sensitivity. Yes, I suppose that you could drive them with 1000 watts, but why? It may do no harm, but since watts cost money, all other things being equal, it makes sense to not go overboard with power, once the speakers' needs have been made.

All that said, IME, 93dB sensitivity speakers benefit from 1000 watt amplification. Would 700 watts be sufficient? Maybe so, but after you get past the first 250W, amps seem to come in 250 and 500 watt increments.

Dave
dcstep
1,518 posts
 
Bill, my first post in this thread answers your question.

Dave
dcstep
1,518 posts
 
Bill said:

"Truly one of the dumbest statements you'll ever read here."

Hi Bill, I'm glad to see that you crawled back out of your hole. One day you'll remember how to contribute something positive to a discussion. Right now you seem focused on trying to manufacture something negative.

Dave
dcstep
1,518 posts
 
Blindjim said:

"...ICE AMPS and their similarities & relationships with real world speakers, mainly in the moderate to high eff arena... 91-93db or greater.

Can a 'lots o watts ICE amp make beautiful music with reasonably high eff loudspeakers?

or should the two never meet?"

Myself and several others that I know really like the Rowland Continuum 500 and/or 312 combined with speakers in this sensitivity range. The 91 to 93 range can actually be quite demanding if you enjoy peak sound pressure levels over 100 dB (think Mahler, etc.).

I think when you get sensitivity of 97dB and above, then I'm wondering if the power is of any use or could it even harm. I haven't tried that so I can't comment directly, but I'm very confident that there is a place for high power with 91-93dB sensitivity.

Dave
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