Newbee,
I was wrong, but it's your lucky day. I've got a Phase Linear 4000 in the basement. Wanna swap? ;-) |
Hi NGeorge,
(Yes, I hang out here too!)
I agree with all the above, although certain cartridges mentioned by Pcosta are probably unsuitable for your arm. I also like the sound of the Denon 103's, Shelters(!) and Koetsus. But I'd never put one on an RS-A1. (Remember the "moving mass" issue we discussed?)
Lyra (also recommended by someone on VA) and Dynavector are both likely to be more suitable compliance matches for an undamped, unstabilized unipivot. Even the damped and stabilized Graham 2.2 cannot get the most out of low compliance cartridges like a Shelter or Denon. |
Hi Raul,
Thanks for helping George with your experience. Good to know his Benz and RS-A1 are (or should be) capable performers.
I totally agree he should check/test all setup parameters (especially VTF and VTA) and certainly try higher loading before buying a new component.
I'm also not sure why you say tube electronics have a top end problem. Mine certainly don't. Obviously one needs to use the right tubes and load/match things properly. But judging by my system and others I've heard, tubes per se are unlikely to be the problem. |
George,
A year or so ago I was just where you are, and I still learn something new and fascinating here every day. I've made some good friends and also have some great music to show for it.
Of course my bank account is a wreck. If anyone had told me a year ago that we'd be spending what we've spent on an analog rig I'd have said they were insane. They weren't of course, but I may be!
Let us know when you get that Miyabi. <:~) |
No flame, but like Raul I'd be interested in some further explanation. I don't own and haven't heard a Basis TT, but I've never heard much of anything bad about the 2000 and higher models. ??? |
Quite a fascinating conversation, George is certainly getting an earful. If I were in his position, I would certainly explore all reasonable no-cost or low-cost solutions before dumping my whole rig and starting over.
I'm not saying Ken is wrong about the Basis. I've never heard one as I mentioned, but I'm no fan of acrylic tables and I have no trouble believing that adding the suspension could impair clean, strong bass response. I've written about the theoretical danger of that several times. OTOH, I've never heard anyone call the Basis bearing "loose". I thought it had a rep for being one of the best. ??
Ken,
You didn't say why you'd avoid Clearaudio or Teres or make any model distinctions. Why the blanket slams? How about some specifics. What have you heard?
In the case of Clearaudio I suppose it might be the acrylic thing again, but what are your objections to Teres? With the exception of the one person already mentioned by Dan_ed, the response of every Teres hearer has been positive. In side-by-sides with Linn, Basis, Clearaudio and Nottingham a comparably priced Teres has usually come out on top. I don't know of anyone who's A/B'd a Linn vs. a Teres and preferred the Linn.
I can tell you for certain that the two Teres rigs I've heard have snapping dynamics, unlimited HF response and clarity, and clean bass to well below 20Hz. (Mine plays cleanly down to at least 16Hz, the lowest I can hear, and I suspect larger models would do even better.) As Dan_Ed said, proper support is vital, as are a suitably matched arm, cartridge and phono stage.
Which gets us back to George's problem... |
Yourmama,
Very LF signals are easy to find on vinyl. Just break out your HFN test record and play the resonance measurement tracks. Paul and I both hear clean test signals down to 16Hz on our Teres 265/Tri-Planar VII/Shelter 901. On actual music the bass is tight down to low organ and string bass notes. Those aren't at 16 Hz of course, but 32 is not a problem - 'Zarathustra' and Bach's 'Pasacaglia' come to mind.
FWIW, before we added the Tri-Planar we had a modded OL Silver. Nothing was audible below 24Hz on the HFN record IIRC, and even 32Hz tones were both rolled off and muddy. The Tri-Planar seems bottomless, which I suppose it should be for the price.
I'm not sure why you think the N803's can't go below 60-70Hz, they're specified as flat to 33. Of course those 24/18/16 Hz test signals become progressively less loud, but they seem pretty clean to our ears. If someone else's N803's are boomy or absent from 33-70Hz then there's definitely something wrong with their system or their room.
In addition to our tonearm change here's another firsthand example: my old SAE amp, though it had nearly as many wpc as my c-j, couldn't take the N803's anywhere near as low without losing control. In fact one of my first A'gon threads was about finding for a cure for boomy bass. The amp was the answer.
Also, I've heard Cello's very nice system, which includes a Rel Storm. Obviously that goes lower and stronger than my N803's, but the difference is only in the 32Hz and below range. The N803's are just as full and tight as his system from there up.
Newbee,
I trust George gave up and bought concert tickets long ago! Or at least I hope so. |
So what are we hearing then? |
Yourmama,
I forgot to remark about one of your points: some Teres tables include acrylic and some don't. Mine doesn't. Check my system. |
Dear Raul,
Which harmonic of a 16Hz test tone is lower than the 32Hz organ tone at the beginning of 'Zarathustra', which we hear quite easily?
On the HFN lateral resonance track Paul and I both hear pitch-differentiated test tones at 24, 22, 20, 18 and 16Hz. On the vertical resonance track we hear and distinguish 25, 23, 21, 19 and 17 Hz. I do not claim our system can reproduce these tones with flat frequency response. But reproduce them it can and does.
This is the physical reality on our rig in our home, which you admit you've never heard. When theories don't explain observed realities then it's time to revise the theories. I am fully aware that this process can be uncomfortable.
You have often urged me to listen before passing judgement. That was good advice.
Regards,
Doug |
Yourmama,
We are talking at cross purposes and very much OT of course. My apologies to NGeorge.
I merely mentioned that a Teres 265 can reproduce sub-20Hz notes when properly equipped with a suitable arm and cartridge. I made that remark only to demonstrate one of the capabilities of the Teres brand, which you had previously dismissed out of hand without explanation.
I'd still like to hear your reasons for that dismissal, which might get us back to the topic of this thread.
Cheers,
Doug |
Ken,
Thank you for elaborating on your advice to George re: Clearaudio and Teres. That's all I was asking for, something specific to fill in your original statement, which you must admit was rather terse.
As for what I'm enamoured with or how sensitive I may be, you hardly know me well enough to offer a useful opinion.
Regards,
Doug |
Caterham1700,
I asked:
"You didn't say why you'd avoid Clearaudio or Teres or make any model distinctions. Why the blanket slams? How about some specifics. What have you heard?"
You responded:
"Slam? How did you get that and Do you REALLY want me to elaborate?"
I got that from your third post on this thread (8/12), where you said, "Don't even think about a Clearaudio or Teres.", without further explanation.
If that wasn't a blanket slam then what was it? And yes, I REALLY want you to elaborate. That is why I asked. I'm asking again.
Doug |
