Is this the END of DAYS for the high end CD player

It is over. RIP CD players and CDs. You served us well in the end.

Did anyone actually try the original CD destruction tests? I seem to remember the adverts smearing CDs with jam or hitting them with a hammer then playing them. Oh the 1980s... Must have had great error correction back then!

I guess the next test will be to see how many thousand years in landfill sites it will take to decompose.

Hi Fplanner2010,

what differences do you hear in your transport versus your server?

I have yet to hear a laser reading data from a cd sounding better than data from cache. In every case I found the laser in real time sounding a bit masked or vague in comparison. Not dissimilar to the addition of a really good clock.

I know Esoteric make great transports, but it is so out of date now as a way to transfer data. Surely what you are hearing is an issue with the computer set up or interface to your DAC?

Hi Wayneker2176,Fplanner2010,

I find it hard to believe you are finding better texture, spacial info and especially dynamics from a CD in real time than by a well set up computer server. But I am sure you hear what you hear.

I have had 2 generations of DCS stacks. Elgar plus up to the Scarlatti stack. Even though with my Scarlatti rig I used the older transport. The addition of the computer was awesome. I dont miss CDs/transport at all.

What is always difficult in these audiophile conversations is to know what people perceive as better. Also maybe any happy coincidence of euphonic attributes in the system can alter an opinion of what is better.

From my perspective after many years of highend CD playback, I found direct from memory via firewire with Amarra from a mac into my DAC to perform beyond anything I have had before. All the qualities you mention are there. Amazing clarity, dynamics,purity, and all the texture that is in the recording is there.(Some recordings I have are direct from the studio. I was in the session. All exported in the digital domain from the DAW. Bounced to stereo Aiffs or WAVS files at the native sample rate)

This talk of CD drives in computers is nonsense. If they could not transfer the data properly none of our computers would work. Obviously all data imported to my HD via CD is in Read until write mode with various software non compressed. Nothing added or taken away. All cables and power supplies are as good as they can reasonably be.

Fplanner2010 you mention the use of coaxial (I assume the jittery s/pdif) which is a consumer digital in/out. Isnt that 75ohm system only capable of 24/96k in stereo if that? I am a bit confused as you mention 24/192. Sorry it has been a while and I have only really used AES/EBU 110 ohm digital ins/outs in the past.

Hi Wayneker2176,

It is possible you just like something in the presentation of your 069. Job done.

But I would suggest for your Mac there are a few ripping softwares you could try. MAX is free and can convert to anything you like too. If you are a Mac guy then use Aiffs. It keeps all the artwork/metadata together unlike WAVs. Which makes looking through your library a pleasant experience.

Itunes sound is not as good as say Armarra, or pure vinyl, but maybe even that will change. Some of this may well be lost on you though if you are using a jittery optical or s/pdif to your DAC. On a DAC like yours it may not have that last bit of refinement from these inputs.

I doubt very much an optical or s/pdif could compete with FW.

What I meant by the price issue is that the software makes the hardware less important in your transport. Spend what you like, but I would save it for the DAC. The data being read from HD is just easier to process and all the errors have been dealt with by your nice new and hopefully free ripping software!

I would have a look at Weiss line and see how you get on. There are a few DACs starting to pop up now. A friend of mine swears by the expensive but good MSB diamond USB DAC. Its not a "looker" but it did sound very nice.

Wayneker2176,

Daniel Weiss makes exceptional digital kit. He also makes the MAN202 a network transport. Since you seem to be caught up in spending $50,000 on a CD player I would have a listen to his more modest but still very expensive approach.

In the price range you are discussing there are a few manufacturers to look at, but I still say for all out assault, a modified computer with every aspect looked at will do all you need and cost peanuts. This is why it is the END of DAYS for the high end CD player. I would not go back personally.

There are guys modifying Mac minis which seem to be the best Mac option for audio playback. Use FW into a mega DAC. After all most of the music recorded today is recorded and mastered on these same computers...

Hi Wayneker,

I think it is fairly simple. A Mac mini, but replace the internal HD with a SSD. I have my mac on a separate isolated electrical spur to my Hifi system and I use a passive mains filter (Audio Magic Stealth XXX) and a nice power cable (VD Master 3.0) on the Mac.

The FW cable is quite a nice one. At the moment I am using the Oyaide FW cable although you can go crazy if you want with the FW cables. I have noticed very slight differences. Not sure its worth going for insanely expensive ones. Better to put the cash in other areas. You can put in extra shielding and damping to go a step further.

Put it on a isolation platform and install whichever software you fancy. I have not experimented with network drives vs USB HDs yet, but I have an external WD 4 TB USB HD. I have this HD and its cables suspended too.

There is a Mac2 Music which is a modified Mac mini and for a sum of money they do most of this and say they modify the operating system and set up.

Have a look around for a DAC that can connect straight to the computer via FW or USB. Most people make one now. If you cant face that then the Weiss int202 is an excellent but expensive interface that plugs into the mac via FW then outputs AES/EBU single/or dual wire and also S/pdif. It can also act as a digital volume control. I used one with my DCS for some time. It was excellent.

I am sure there are others out there that will help. But I have excellent sound and I replaced my DCS transport without any pain apart from the loss of the odd SACD. I put the left over thousands of $ in my bank!

Wayneker2176,

I think your sonic issues are more to do with your computer set up and the type of digital connection you use. Dont use the CD ROM as a transport(!). Use the computer as a library playing from memory.

I know of no modern hard drives that sound bad! If you are worried then get SSD with no moving parts. Forget S/pdif and toslink. Jittery crap by comparison to FW or a good USB protocol.

You need to forget the Hifi hype. Which part of you really believes that some small hifi manufacturer can compete with giant highly resourced "real" tech companies? You are paying for 20mm think face plates and small production runs.

Rip your CDs in a non compressed format (i.e Aiff or WAV) with a read until right software. Try some playback software like Pure vinyl or Amarra or whatever. Get a decent interface if you want to keep your current DAC, but you may well be better off getting a new generation DAC which takes firewire or USB straight. Weiss make some great ones which are expensive, but there are cheaper ones made by others that use USB. I myself use the new Weiss.

The rest is BS. It is just pure data storage and number crunching. The transport as you use it is a thing of the past. All you want is the data to be passed to a brilliant number cruncher which then has a nice output section to your amp.

There is no way your transport sounds better. The old expensive guard will be forgotten ($15,000 transports!) unless you just want it for designer style. I am sure there are many on the GON who can help guide you with the right bits.

Sorry for the rant, but I have been there. I got rid of all that expensive stuff because it could not compete or was no better. No other reason. Get rid of it before you are stuck with it.

Aplhifi,
you have taken some of my statements out of context. What I was getting at was the CD/DVD drives when used with specific ripping software can produce amazing results and make a nonsense of expensive transports. Not that any old CD/DVD drive on its own will compete.

Take it as read that there will always be someone doing something to sell you a product that may work better. But compared to many, computer audio is the way to go. There is just some set up. Just like every other piece of equipment.

Thank you for clearing up the limit of s/pdif, but this is not true of all s/pdif.

Most people here, unless using very new equipment, will not be able to pass 24/192k via their s/pdif. Hence my question about the limit. I mention jittery as he was using optical & s/spdif from his laptop. I feel FW gets you past all this.

It is clear that as usual people have made all this sound complex. But in Waynekers case a few adjustments to his computer and software I am sure will do the trick. But he seems happy to play 1 CD at a time and likes his sound.

I used to do it that way, but I could never go back to such a limited way of playing back music. Having your library available at the press or slide of a finger means I listen to way more music, and I dont fall into the pattern of reaching for the same old CDs at the front of the pile.

Waynekers if you have already ripped lots of your library to WAVs no worries. You can easily convert them to Aiffs and get the benefit of the metadata on the Mac. You may even be able to remove some errors too if you didnt rip them well the 1st time around. I am not sure how they do it, but I saw someone using software on a PC that did it! But thats another story...