Is there an alternate to Martin Logans?

Oh the Aerius "Do I love them, do I not?" I would suspect that you have come to the same conclusion that most have concerning those speakers, dynamics and bass are missing in action. Regardless of how many times you listen the conclusion is the same. Yes there are dynamic systems that do that pinpoint imaging, transparency AND have excellent dynamics and good bass as well. Try listening to Merlins VSM-SE with BAM unit. Used 3K. Read the reviews from owners in AudioReview and from Reviewers on Merlinmusic.com website. You should get a good picture of what they can do. They are extraordinary dynamic loudspeakers for sure. Good luck. Will

Oh how right you are Phil. So far as telling anyone you have something called a BAM or if you like bam, as part of an audio system, I see your concern. God forbid that a Flinstone character could be in any way connected to a high end audio system, what would one’s non-audiophile friends think if they knew? So in answer to that, don't tell or better yet don't use the acronym call it what it is, a Bass Augumentation Module. So far as the ML Requests over the Merlins, to each his own. I am not a big ML fan but am quite familiar with their early to their present products. If you really think the Request would smoke the Merlins might I suggest that 1) You have NEVER heard the Merlins period. 2)You have never heard the Merlins properly set-up or 3) You have never done an AB (I haven't either, don't need to). The ML's DO NOT integrate the bass well with the electrostatic panels, that is a real problem for me. I didn't like the Sequels which was their first attempt at integrating the two and I still don't. The Request has the same problem as the others, it doesn't sound right and brings attention to itself every time I listen. The Merlins IMHO have a midrange and highs that are as NATURAL and coherent as I have heard from any dynamic speaker system, no exaggeration or emphasis of any of the frequencies AND they are seamless at ALL frequencies unlike the planer designs that attempt to integrate a dynamic driver. The real problem with the Merlin’s is that they have such amazing resolution that they reveal all the deficiencies of everything upstream. Bass is deep and very well defined, they just can't defy the laws of physics but work quite well in a small to medium size room (especially with that BAM). And last but far from least is the DYNAMIC capability of the Merlin's, it is life like when properly set-up and with the ideal matching components. The ML don’t even come close. I have not heard ANY speaker system which will SMOKE them. Sound more spectacular? maybe on some recordings. Sound more pleasing on certain recordings? surely. Sound more accurate? Not yet. It is once again a matter of “What is your preference Sir”? Maybe your Avante-Garde Duo's are better, I haven't heard them, but certainly have read many mixed comments on them. I suspect their shortcomings are similar, trying to integrate two different technologies in a seamless coherent manner is a very challenging problem that hasn’t been solved.

Phil I agree that we disagree OK? I have heard ML's 50 times if I've heard them once. You are not being kind you are just being presumptuous. Let the guy listen for himself, I'm just offering an alternative. What in the hell is the dealer doing selling a product he doesn't believe in? I guess it was a trade in, right? Come on Phil "mediocre Hi-Fi over musicality", be specific in your criticisms and get off the high horse, I can take it. When there is a speaker for everyman, we won't need this forum will we? Will

Phil I still find it remarkable that a dealer would carry a product he doesn't believe in. There are certainly other speakers that can be driven by tubes that he likes, right? I can’t believe that he only carries tube electronics. Indeed he is a poor businessman and if he were so honest as you say, he wouldn’t carry a product he doesn’t like, that isn't honest it is stupid. He sounds like the most obsequious dealer I have ever heard of, can’t say no and can’t say yes. Well you still haven't offered me specific criticisms. Your remarks are interesting to me since I have NEVER heard those characterizations of the Merlins. I have heard too accurate, too much detail, ruthlessly revealing, but mediocre and HI-FI? especially for a system that has been so widely regarded by reviewers and won so many Best of Show awards. I can't possibly believe that you heard the same speakers I currently own and am amazed by every time I listen even though I know my system is far from optimum, the speakers reveal that fact. These speakers are the antithesis of Hi-Fi more like music. I just think they get closer to the truth of the recording without adding the artifacts so typical in virtually all speakers I have heard. In any event Tbonephile listen with your own ears, and read the reviews, the Merlins are exceptional speakers to this listener.

The early CLS could be described as ruthlessly revealing, etched with no bass. Would you categorize those speakers as HI-FI Watson? Maybe you don’t get the fact that any system with ultra resolution is going to present problems unless all matters regarding matching ancillary components and set-up issues are properly dealt with. It takes time and commitment but you KNOW it is worth it, everything is there, they have it. Does that automatically make it HI-FI? Tonal balance and spectral balance dude, you just did’t get it, that’s all. THAT IS WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT. Real and live, they have it. And "Honest Abe" the audio dealer, I don't know about you Phil, you still haven't offered specific criticisms, I'm still waiting. SHERLOCK

Ok Phil we're getting some where now. Why don't you tell me the difference between HI-FI and music other than the obvious absolute which is live vs. recorded music. Sherlock

Joe Who says that the Merlins' don't sound good out of the gate? First of all I don't need to go down to 25hz or rock the walls to enjoy music, been there done that, it is hard to get it right in a room my size. I've got no qualms with the Silverline Sonatas, but I don't think they are nearly as coherent as the Merlin's, since they are a 3-way but hey, that isn't to say they aren't great speakers. The Merlins don't have any boom, I like that. They are after all only a 2-way but they do have some hair on their balls, pretty impressive for a 2-way. What da ya expect from a 7" driver in the way of bass? I'm happy for you in that you like music over Hi-Fi, me too. Well Joe you know how it is in Audiophilia, things aren't always as obvious as you simply put it. Maybe I should go listen to more live concerts say 20-30 a year instead of 10 or so. Maybe that would give me a better FEEL for music over Hi-Fi. What da ya think? And on a final note don’t worry about me too much, I’m not about to throw in the towel just yet. Thanks anyway for your concern. Will

Thank you Bigcigarman I concur. To me a speaker is a transducer. It's sole purpose is to accurately reproduce what is on the recording. Being quite familiar with live music as well, as both a participant and a listener it is true. Live music has a quality that I have NEVER heard quite captured by an audio system, close but no cigar. There are too many variables. The recording if well engineered will represent what was captured by the microphones, hopefully it will capture the ambience of the recording venue as one might hear it if there but it will never sound like the live experience. And I, like you wish more people would go to concerts and experience it live and really know that experience. Many do for sure but it is obvious to me that many don’t and it is too bad, they would love it. Listening to live music and listening to recorded are in reality two completely separate experiences and never the twain shall meet. Thanks again for your post, you have put things in well needed perspective. Will