Is There An "Absolute" Best Cartridge?


Dear friends: We can read through different threads/posts in this forum that people always want/ask to know for the " best " " audio item " that IMHO and till today does not exist in " absolute " meaning.
Well I already have and I'm " living " a unique experience that makes me to share with all of you what IMHO could be in Absolute terms " the best cartridge ever ".

Please read this Technics EPC-P100C-MK4 information that could help you for you can share with us your experiences/thoughts on the subject of this thread:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1200430667&openflup&1827&4#1827

Thank you in advance.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.
rauliruegas

Showing 7 responses by nandric

Dear Pedrillo, I think that we all care about 'the truth'.
The problem is : truth by induction or deduction? Then we
have 'individual statements' (say from Raul,Dertonarm,etc)and we all have 'some' limitations regarding :information,knowledge,experience,etc that we
actualy posses.
Aaccording to my interpretation Raul should stated his 'universal statement' in this manner:' I am familiar with (say) 100 different carts of both kinds (MC& MM). I tested,etc, all of them onder the 'optimal conditions' and
according to me the EPC 100 KK 4 ist the best cart of them
all.'
So obviously the quantifier 'all' in this statement applys to those 100 carts. If there are 150 carts produced since
1980 then 50 carts are not included in this statement.
Then obviously Rauls conclusion is made by induction.
For the sake of argument I can state that I am familiar with only 4 carts one of wich have the best technical spec.
that I know of. My argument (Tarskis theory of truth) is
based on 'conditions' that an cart must fulfil in order to
get an qualification like 'very good','excelent',etc.
So look,for example, at spec. of Allaerts MC Formula I:

Channel sep. 70 dB at 100Hz
60 dB at 1 Khz
70 dB at 20 Khz
Total THD 0,01 %

There is a sence by wich I can state that those are the best spec. that I have ever seen. If I can afford this cart
then I surely can afford the tonearm ('variable' at the moment) that will form a 'perfect cobo' with this cart.
But it is also possible that we can reach some consensus in
this technical sence and judge that this cart is 'the best' at present time in,eh,technical sence.
Ie one of my 4 carts has 'beaten' one of 100 Rauls carts.
That is the problem of induction.
From what I have stated follows that 'absolute best' is an
wrong expression in the given context and I must also add: I like Raul very much.

Regards,
Dear Raul, your 'Sommelier example' is illustrative of our
'misunderstanding'. He can only compare 'some wines' and
state that 'a' is the best of the sequence:'a,b,..n'. But
to state that 'a' is 'absolute the best' we need some added
conditions. I don't intend to involve you in 'academic' or
'scientific debate'. But everyone of us can only put in the
discussion what he knows or think that he knows. So I think
that I know something about the 'quantifiers' and their use
in statemets,sentences or propositions ( choose your preference). I learned this by study of Frege in more then
10 yeas time. To my mind the greatest mind of Europe. So I
am of course biased by my,say, education. But even so the
most I have learned in my intellectual development is from
Frege. His 'compatriot' Dertonarm I admire particulary for
his 'enlightenment inclination' . He is to my mind an 'homo
universalis' but I am not always in agreement with his statements. His attempt to handle both 'variables' (the cart and the tonearm)at the same time are not convincing to
me. He should start with,eh, one 'known' entity and procide
with the 'unknown'. Like he deed in Sweden by looking for
'someone' there. The peculiar 'reason' is that 'someone' is
not a name. Obvious to all of them who ever have coplained:
'someone has stolen my car'. The problem is obvious: varaibles are not names even if we put them in 'subject-predicat' sentence form. Then we all know that he prefers the FR-66 S tonearm. But even if we think that he is 'unlimited ' regarding his 'potentials' we also know that he is (very) limited regarding the choice of an cart
for his FR-66. So that is whay I 'presupposed' that Allaerts MC 2 Formla 1 is the 'best' cart at present. Ie if
you want 'the best cart' you should look for an tonearm after that.
So Raul our 'disagreement' is not about the carts but about
the statements about the carts.
Regards,
Dear Timeltel, My point was only that, sorry, 'unrestricted
use' of the quantifier 'all' causes many problems. In fundation of mathematics we all know, I assume, the set-theoretic paradoxes. So the mathematicians are very careful with,eh,quantification. But you already mentioned the paradoxes.I don't realy understand why Raul is so persistent with this 'absolute'. We get in this way some Kantian 'a priory truths' and I don't belive in any a priori truth. But I am sure that Raul will announce at once to his friends in his thread about the MM carts if he
discover some cart that is even better then EPC 100.
So he obviously have some other understanding of 'the best'
then some other have. One can pursuit the complete understanding with the other but why should we think that
this is possible?
Regards,
Dear Dgob, Glad to see that there are still persons interested in,eh, philosophy of science and logic. But Kant
was convinced that Aristotelian logic was 'perfect'. He was still 'captive' in 'subject-predicate' sentence form.
But Frege was the first to explain 4 different logical facts 'included' in 'S-P' sentence form. Kant of course asked many important questions but he was not able to answer them. He had no clue about 'quatifiers' nor
the quantification theory. He was still working with 'concepts' while Frege was also the first to state that 'sentence','proposition' or 'statement' should be the
basic of any logical or linquistic investiation. So to be
honest I am still wondering why is Kant known to every German and only few have ever heard of Frege. BTW there are onbelivable more studens of Frege in the USA then in Germanny.
Regarding Raul. I admire this guy very much and he knows what I think of him as person and intellectual. But I was
confused about his statements or the way he put his convictions in words. Nothing to do with English but with
his thougts. My questions ,particulary, with his use of the
quantifier 'all' was an attemt to understand what he 'realy meant'. Alas I discovered that is not always possible to underatand each other complete.
Regards,
Dear Dertonarm, You are very provocative and 'terrible' to
argue with. So apart from the fun intended, the 'Sith' is
a name without an bearer ( an non existent entity) so the question is how he can deal in anything ,except, of course in absolutes...?

Regards,
Dear Raul,There is this German aphorism:'Gedanken sind Zollfrei' (the thoughts are duty free). Provided that they
are not loudly annunciated. We all have the same rights you know,the right to sleep under an bridge included.
You already got many appraisals from us so no need to do this yourself.
Regards,
Dear Downunder, Munich is an splendid idea . For me a piece of cake to get there from Holland. There is however a
problem. This Dertonarm guy seems to be very strong and he
is,besides, an descendant from very dengerous German warriors. Ie I would like to come back to Holland a live.
I have no horses for the competioon but intend to bring my
ears with me. But my proviso is twofold:
1. the winning horse should be decided by secret vote,
2. Dertonarm should promise in advance not to cause eny harm to me .
Ragrds,