@millercarbon
I would be scared to bend the wire. It's silver and I am not wholly certain how they crimped or soldered the connectors.
Would foam pads inserted between the connectors absorb some of the vibration? I did a small experiment with a foam pad I had laying around. I cut a few squares and placed them between the connectors. Now those foam pads vibrate along with the connectors. So, I can't really tell if I offloaded any vibration or made it worse. :)
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@millercarbon
I be darned! Getting the cables as close to a 45 degree angle from its connector certainly diminishes the vibration and stops the vibration from continuing down the cable! O_O.
Thanks!
The power cable was the easiest to orient at 45 degrees and wa-la, no vibration whatsoever.
Going to have to rethink how things are wired on desk......
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@tomic601
I have discovered it also happens on the Passive speaker as well. So it seems to me more indicative of the driver. However, the amp plate is what is vibrating and not the entire cabinet, which is interesting.
@ghasley
I hadn't considered dismantling the speaker, although that makes sense. I would have to be super careful as the design of the box is situated to take the air generated and use it to cool the amp. I seem to recall in a different group where people dismantled the Audioquest Nighthawk to remove paper and cotton dampening that was used to roll off high frequencies. If I add dampening, would it threaten the speaker's ability to produce high frequencies?
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@millercarbon
I had these on "risers" on the desk. Are you saying that if I suspend the cables on a stretched rubberband, it will absorb the vibration? I think I accomplish that.
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@tomic601
"
is that better or just different?
"
I am not following the context here. Are you referring to the change in angle?
@ghasley
Where does one obtain this putty? And yes, the Audioengine A2+ are extremely well engineered. :) I think they're worth far more than they charge for them.
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@ghasley
Ordered, should be here tomorrow.
Can you give me some insight on where to apply and how much?
Is this applied externally? Such as on the screw hole from the outside, then insert the screw. Or is it internal, put the putty behind the plate and insert the screw?
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@ghasley
Ok, I will try that out when I get the putty in.
Correct, one speaker has the amp, the other is passive. The vibration also occurs on the passive, but very minimal.
I have the volume on the speaker set to 2/3s and half-way on the subwoofer. I control the volume through Windows. Since I am going through the Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt, it is also amplifying the signal, which could account for additional loudness. The thing that does impress me the most about these speakers is their ability to resolve detailed and heavy sound at high volumes. All other speakers I have ever owned or listened to had a peak point where they would distort at that volume. These speakers can cross over that and keep going O_O. No, I don't casually listen at those volumes. If max volume (100) is unbearable, I listen at level 30 max and it's plenty loud. If the track was recorded at low volume, I have increased to level 60 before, but never any higher.
I might also add that I have $4000+ in cables and power equipment behind these.
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@millercarbon
I wonder if there are different qualities to the use of rubber bands. Whilst awaiting my bag of rubber bands, I had two wide rubber bands from a bunch of asparagus. I tried using those and they not only didn't impact the vibrations, they took on no vibration. It didn't seem to matter what the tension or lack of tension was. I began to consider that there maybe something in those bands that makes them food-safe and therefore not adapted to vibration absorption? The typical rubber bands are rather "squishy" and these food rubber bands are stiff and relatively unyielding.
I also was thinking about how Shunyata's "Dark Field" risers are designed. They seem to have something of a larger component with a stretch of rubber. It could be that the structure has internal filler or shock absorbing material?
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@Millercarbon
Indeed. I should move along..... ;)
@ghasley
Well, the interesting thing is, folks would say that my spending 10 times the value of the speaker system on cables and power distributors was ill-advisable, but these speakers wouldn't sound as good without them. *shrug*
So the only time diminishing returns are a factor is when spending money on tweaks that don't work.
Therefore, I am prone to determine whether or not rubber bands and putty make a difference for school-lunch money amounts, versus investing in $300+ in premium risers. :)
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@millercarbon
Yup. I lucked out in that I had the financial option to explore my idea. I used to be relegated to only being able to afford a $300 dollar cable, maximum. Which did improve sound, but only by small steps, but a step none the less. I finally decided to go as big as I could and for this application, Kimber Kable's Summit Palladian was as high as one can go with a C7 connection. The return on investment was immediate and light years what I had been using before, Audioquest NRG Z2.
I have since spoken to Synergistic Research, who claim they can make a cable as high up as they can go with a C7 connection, but since I am unable to find any example of a C7 connector on any of their cables, I am left a bit skeptical. Even Shunyata won't go very far in their cable line with a C7 connection.
It's eventually going to give me trouble in the future because I do plan on upgrading to Audioengine's HD6 speaker system, which still uses C7 connection, albeit directly and not through a power brick. The Kimber Kable Palladian likely won't do well dangling from any height. It was clearly designed to remain horizontal. If I want to maintain this level of power clarity, I am going to have to test Synergistic's claim of using a C7 connection at a higher tier.
I had looked into Nordost, but it's confusing. Some power cables have a C7 option and some don't. The Cable Company's list of options for some of those cables are contradictory. They offer the Frey 2 with a C7 connection, but Nordost's website does not. *Shrug*
The struggle continues....:)
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UPDATE:
I found a successful solution!
Remember those foam pads? They came from some electrical component shipping packing. They're like EVA craft foam sheets.
Anyway, I discovered that if I sandwiched the cables between two sheets and used a rubber band to tightly apply pressure to the sheets, the cable that comes after that had significantly reduced vibration. You could touch the cable before it and the cable after it and easily sense the loss of vibration.
I am going to experiment further :)
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@Millercarbon
I would need to get more foam sheets. At present I have sandwiched about a foot, just before the cables go off the desk.
@ghasley
The sound got better. It seemed as though there was more "depth" to the sound added. Like the sound was thicker; if that makes any sense.
To be honest, I thought bunching them together would be detrimental to the sound. That the frequencies from each cable would somehow interact. After all, the higher tier Synergistic Research speaker cables, all the conductors are separated by a carbon fiber disk.
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@ghasley
I would say mitigated. The vibrations are not 100% gone. The deep bass vibrations are still felt all the way down the line, but the higher frequency vibrations are gone.
Right now the technique I used is very ugly and looks down right cavemanish. What I think I will do is track down larger sheets of this foam and make a full blanket. Also, I found that zip-ties are better for applying the necessary force. Also, you need to put additional strips of foam between the cables.
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@ghasley
True, but it seems less risky to offload the vibrations from the cables than it is to dismantle a powered speaker. The vibrations begin with the speaker drivers and how they interact with the cabinet and sockets. I suppose that is the trade off for making small speakers that have a ton of power. There simply isn't a lot of space and room to contain the vibrations.
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@ghasley
It isn't that I cannot unscrew, it's a temperature issue. The amp gets hot and the putty melts very quickly. My fear is, leaving the putty will melt and get onto the electronics and cause damage.
I am researching heat resistant foam pads that I might be able to use to cover the entire amp panel. If I can stop the reverberation from the actual inputs themselves, it won't transmit to the cable.
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FINAL UPDATE: I solved the problem. Not mitigated, solved. The EVA foam only did a minimal job. I found the solution in Neoprene rubber sheets. Just one thin sheet made a difference. Eventually, I used the entire roll and wrapped it around the cables. Vibration gone. The only thing I need to look out for is heat. The Neoprene can handle extreme temperatures, but it insulates and keeps heat trapped. So if heat is generated by the cables, it could build up. But...vibrations solved. :) This is what I bought in case others are interested: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CJFQ6F9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 |
@ghasley
It’s a class a/b push pull amp.
In about two years I will upgrade to their HD6 speaker system, so for now, getting inside the plate might be a step too far for me. I have thought about cutting some strips of Neoprene and placing them along the inside of the amp’s internal ridge where the screws go, but I am not confident that it will work.
Without opening it, I surmise the issue will be whatever harness or frame the speaker drivers are attached to. The drivers are obviously the source of vibration. So the harness they are attached to is not decoupling the vibration. If I add material to that, there is a strong chance of harming the actual acoustics of the speakers, which I do happen to like.
In my mind, I have formulated a much better solution to the symptom. Two pieces of heavy steel, with Neoprene on one side of each. Then sandwich the cable. The blocks shouldn’t need to be more than 3 or 4 inches in width. I say that because, adding a little of the rubber and gripping it hard, also stopped the vibration. So one needs pressure, but spread across a larger area than zip ties were offering.
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ANOTHER UPDATE:
Well, I may have solved the cable vibration, but in doing so, I smeared the holographic dynamics of the sound.
So either the Neoprene Rubber was acting as a signal dampener or bundling interconnects and speaker cable so close together under a blanket interacted with the cable's geometry.
So, for now, I have uncovered them. I need to research more about the properties of Neoprene and see if covering each individual cable is a better solution.
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