And a Lenco/Home Depot, also a very impressive turntable ;-)
I have to say that this focus on the importance of PRaT is music to my "ears"! I would have to side with 4yanx on the issue of whether PRaT is colouration or not: the PRaT is inherent in the music, obviously, as timing is the heart of the music, as any musician and all audiophiles should know. The piece of equipment which filters PRaT out of the recording is the coloured piece. Since there are so many variables from turntable design to turntable design - belt or thread or idler wheel or direct-drive; suspended vs unsuspended; high-mass or low-mass; acrylic or metal or wood; damped or undamped; skeletal or massive; high-torque or low-torque; coupled or decoupled - humans and their ears are still the best way to judge the presence or absence of PRaT. Of course, maintaining as perfect-as-possible speed stability in the face of stylus drag (the Great Enemy) is the way to preserve the PRaT of the original performance.
If it ain't got that swing, it don't mean a thing...
Cheers,
Jean |
Forget about "correct" PRaT, and just concentrate on whether or not any PRaT is there. Humans react to rhythm in a way no machine will ever do (and consequently will never be reliably measured), as we are tapped into the rhythms which are found in nature all around us, such as our own regulated heartbeats. PRaT is what makes you want to dance, or nod your head, or tap your feet, or wave your arms: it is biological and this is why it is distrusted by many, who feel a need to have everything measurable by scientific equipment before they trust it. Of course, after our biological response has identified relative levels of PRaT which scientific equipment fails to detect, we can then devise or further develop the instruments which will more reliably indicate its existence or non-existence in playback equipment. Only a truly awful musical ensemble of any sort will fail to get the rhythm, and the equipment which fails to retrieve it from a recording is, quite simply, a failure. Of course, PRaT can be retrieved in varying degrees (or lost in varying degrees), and the equipment which makes arm-waving, head-nodding and foot-tapping an IMPERATIVE (assuming a system capable of transmitting this), is therefore at the top of the pile in this very fundamental aspect of music reproduction. Music, after all, is in very large part a biological and emotional experience, as well as intellectual. We have to place our reactions to music ahead of our scientific analyses.
Now, back to my IMPERATIVE Lenco! ;-) |
Hi Doug, while ALL instruments, including the human voice, require perfect speed stability to be reproduced correctly, I find speed instablities are most clearly heard (a different issue) in the decay/resonance of instruments, which being but the resonance of a note already struck, simply decay unwavering until vanished, and nothing decays/resonates audibly like piano. The piano keys are hit, the strings vibrate, the box resonates, and any speed variation is CLEARLY audible and exposed, as decay/resonance CANNOT waver in pitch. Bells are good too, as are acoustic guitars, echoes of various sorts, and so on. I don't get my musical enjoyment from hearing evidence of perfect speed, but if I hear a perfect decay, then I know my playback system is spot-on. Besides, hearing a wavering resonation/decay of any sort is annoying and worrying. All that said, a 'table which gets the speed spot on, and sustains perfect speed in real-world conditions - i.e. while playing a record - not only captures the PRaT which should exist in every recording regardless of quality, but also does a better job of retrieving detail, imaging information, energy (dynamics) and frequency extension.
As to whether or not the Linn shows evidence of better speed stability than a well-made and massive unsuspended deck, this is a complex issue. The Roksan turntable has a motor laterally mounted to a spring which allows the motor to rotate with the belt to prevent belt-stretching, thus pulling off the trick of having greater snap and speed, traditionally, than a Linn. On the other hand, these high-mass decks, if they use a rubber belt of some sort, have no such compensation. Regardless of the mass of the platter, the belts will stretch, and the greater mass of the platter ends up not overcoming stylus drag totally so much as reducing it in frequency, as the belt simply cannot react as quickly while dragging such a large mass. It will, however, react at some frequency. But the rhythm lies in the lower frequencies, and if the belt-reaction to stylus drag is lowered to this frequency, then PRaT will suffer, and the Linn, with a lower-mass platter, come out sounding like it has superior PRaT. Thread-drives are a different matter, as it is difficult to predict exactly what is going on here: they are not stretching, but are they slipping? And in what way are they slipping? Perhaps, like rubber belts, they slip precisely when stylus drag is at its worst, which is logical, which in the end means they have some of the same problems rubber belts have, in racing at precisely the point there is greatest energy in the music. Finally, the Linns are suspended, and the subchassis does react to stylus drag and belt reaction in a way similar to the Roksan's motor's lateral freedom: the Linn's entire subchassis twists in reaction to the stylus drag, thus mitigating belt-reaction, and reducing damage to the PRaT. But, while the Linn saves the Prat, it sacrifices the detail higher-mass decks, which have more stable speed overall (above the low frequencies), traditionally excel at. Of course, all this is mere theorizing, in the wake of my experiences comparing the sound of various high-end and classic decks to such high-torque designs as the big idler-wheel decks (like, of course, the Lencos) and the Technics SP10 MKII (which is discussed at length recently on VA).
In the end, it's what makes you happy that makes you happy - providing you are not deluding yourself as so many in fact do (I have a detail-freak friend up here who always goes for detail, and upgrades at least once a month at great cost, indicating deep-rooted dissatisfaction). So good to see the vinyl industry doing so well and generating so much interest! I hope the music-fest goes well for all, Vive la Vinyl! |
Thanks, Psychic, and thanks Doug: I may try Mylar tape on my Ariston RD11S, which like the Linn majors on PRaT while sacrifing information. But with excellent PRaT and a gorgeous sound (Grado-esque midrange), and let's face it, quite good detail retrieval when not compared directly to the rising stars, I could easily live with it as my sole choice. I keep it because when it plays, I forget about audio (blessed relief!). I may even retire to it when I tire of the astonishing information-retrieval and dynamics and bass of my Lencos ;-) Then, I will try that mylar...
Again, sweet music to my ears to read so much about the importance of PRaT, which is what drew me into this discussion. Long life to Art Dudley to keep focussing our attention on it, sloppy set-up or no!
Happy listening! |
Well gee, at least I notice that some are paying attention! I would point out that nowhere have I ever written that PRaT is the ONLY factor to consider in reviewing or evaluating a turntable, but it IS the Prime one. I also write often about detail, dynamics, tonal accuracy and imaging. Extrapoplating I would assume that Art Diudley has never done so either. PRaT is the MOST important factor, since the sense of musicality arises from PRaT, or timing or whichever facet of correct speed you want to talk about. By this I mean, if one has to accept less than perfection and sacrifices must be made, where does one make the sacrifices? I submit that musicality (PRaT) is the one thing that must NEVER be sacrificed. I would also point out that correct timing (PRaT), IS "speed stability, wow and flutter" and the more stable the speed the better the PRaT will be. This is my whole point in my Lenco Experiment, and yes, the Lencos are far superior to the Linns even in my beloved PRaT, though if I didn't have a Lenco which in addition to PRaT also produces world-class detail, dynamics and all the other audiophile paraphernalia which is wrongly placed ahead of PRaT, I would live with a Linn, Roksan or other 'table which places musicality (not simple "smoothness" and information) and thus timing at the top of the heap. The better the speed stability, in addition, the better the information-retrieval, imaging, cartridge tracking (and thus improved sonic performance), "gestalt (musical piece being presented as a piece/whole and not a collection of disparate parts).
Atar1 also assures us that since he cannot afford the top-of-the-line pieces he is in no position to judge - "All of these turntables, including the Quattro, are so far beyond my budget it would be like asking me which exotic sports car is the best in the world by having me read reviews about them" - but then goes on to sing their praises. Based on what, their enormous price tags? Let us bow before these Mighty Creations as they have ludicrous price tags far beyond our reach. These 'tables have all been criticized in various ways, many of them for lack of musical involvement - the SME 30 for one - and whatever strengths they might have, it means nothing if they don't draw you into the musical magic (and not simple HiFi special effects). The reason the Linn still has such a strong following after all these years, even at its inflated price tag when fully tricked-out, is because it is first and foremost a musical turntable, as all turntables should be (but sadly aren't).
I believe that many want to ignore or wish away the issue of musicality, since it can't be designed-for except by the sort of talent we cannot understand or explain (and often by simple accident, or "discovery" which, however, should be recognized and imitated), and which must be recognized. It is far more difficult to trust our instincts and senses and biological and emotional responses (which is what music is all about), than to sit in front of speakers with a check-list: "trumpet clearly audible in left-hand corner, check; echo audible around viola, check; harpsichord audible in right-hand corner, check..." I've said it before and I'll say it again: musicality is not an entirely subjective experience, much as the pundits would have us believe this (so they can sell their over-priced a-musical monstrosities), accurate speed (and by this I mean truly accurate speed, in practice and playing a real LP) being seminal in this regard. If these Big Heavyweight turntables fail to recover PRaT (as any do, I had the Maplenoll Ariadne with 40-pound platter which was less musical than the Athena with the lighter 15-pound platter it replaced), it is because their speed stability is in fact not stable. The heavier platters simply reduce the belt-reaction time (caused by stylus drag which is VERY audible) due to increased inertia, lowering it into the lower frequencies where the timing - or PRaT - resides. The lighter turntables move the speed instabilities up into the higher frequencies, and so lose detail relative to the big turntables, which is why so many audiophiles, trained by the largely detail-oriented audiophile press (easy to describe and look like experts), assume they are superior in every way. The culprit in all these speed instabilities is the belt, being rubber stretches and contracts at frequencies as already described, which is audible. This is why thread drives sound better than rubber-belt drives. But better than these weak little cogging motors and threads aided by expensive band-aid electronics is a well-designed idler-wheel drive with a monstrous but designed exactly and precisely and solely for turntables. Try the experiment to verify my assertions, I've thrown this particular gauntlet down several times over the last year with a 100% success rate so far (even my enemies admitted the Lenco's great sonic prowess and musical power), all are welcome to join and report on the results. Based on my own experience of heavy/massy belt-drives vs lighter belt-drives, I'd hazard a guess that Art Dudley was right in his review, but he committed two crimes: he spoke of musicality as if it were important, and he placed a cheaper product ahead of a more expensive one on musical grounds. I would describe him as a man of courage and integrity, it just happens that only the English still produce classic 3-point suspension turntables which major in PRaT, the 3-point suspension tunrtable being an invention of the American company Acoustic Research. Ironic, eh? |
Excellent summary Tom. I've been fighting this battle for the importance of speed stability for a year now! And yes, the two - PRaT and speed stability - are intimately connected. The Roksan mounts their motor so that it can revolve around its vertical axis, so the motor will turn instead of the belt stretching, thus preventing the belt from stretching and leading to better attack and information retrieval. This solution placed them ahead of the then-reigning LP12 and by doing this practically started the whole high-end 'table challenge to the classic Linn formula. I have heard again and again the great PRaT (which by the way isn't a hazy notion, only being so by our habit of saying/writing PRaT rather than Pace, Rhythm and Timing, which is quite precise) of classic 3-point suspensions, and believe that this PRaT is there because the suspension accidentaly (it wasn't intended) mimics the Roksan trick to a certain extent, revolving in the direction of the tension on the belt to mitigate belt-stretch and thus speed instabilities. This discussion of PRaT and speed stability is very refreshing, especially as it relates to music! Just in case somebody misinterprets me (somebody always does), I'm not against expensive state-of-the-art assaults on what is possible in music reproduction, what I'm against is design specifically aimed at justifying high price tags, which is certainly a problem in the high end, and I'm also against placing such things as detail and imaging above musicality and PRaT, by the age-old trick of claiming these things are subjective and therefore unimportant. The state-of-the-art 'table that is also musical is a triumph, but let's not pretend that all such assaults are musically successful, and so indeed successful at all. Vive la music! |
Artar1, you want to talk about windbags and pompousness? "There are a number of really fine turntables on the market today from Galibier, Teres, Redpoint, Verdier, Pluto, La Luce, Transrotor (their high-end models), and Kuzma Stabi, just to name a few. I would even include the Clearaudio Maximum Solution with the Clearaudio TQ-1 Tonearm among these aesthetically pleasing and sonically talented over-achievers." When you've done defending the indefensible - competing with the Joneses and admiring the Joneses for the simple fact the Joneses have a helluva lot of money to spend - then get back to me. Over-achieving means performing well beyond the design, materials and attached price-tags, and this is evidently not true of the 'tables you listed, we are expected to pay dearly for their performance, and as I pointed out earlier, many of these 'tables have been criticized for a lack of musicality/involvement (and not only by Art Dudley), which at their respective price-points is inexcusable, in my world anyway. This means the resources to build these expensive turntables exists, but there is a lack of talent behind them (not all, but some). I have no intention of intimidating anyone, but I will not stand by while people misrepresent what I have clearly written for all to see, invent things I have not written, and unfortunately, I am simply set off by people lauding items simply because they are expensive, without using their heads. Pay attention to the criticisms as well as the strong points discussed in reviews, and try to relate them to design. Boiling it down: use your head, trust your senses, decide for yourself, do not let price-tags rule your perceptions, as this leads to the multiplication of no-talent hacks in the high-end who justify high precie-tags by the use of fashionable ideas, materials and simple excess. Ultimately, this does more damage to the high-end, which consequently creates less new converts (who remain unconverted) and shrinks the market. I have no great quarrel with you, but a combination of the above set me off, I wish now I hadn't had my attention drawn to it by the two replies which followed your writings. My apologies if I was too harsh, sometimes I see red before the smoke clears.
Raul, I entirely agree with you with respect to a testing method, but the current one is evidently faulty. My Lenco challenge is entirely empirical and hence scientific: I invite people to re-build it and test it in the context of the systems they know best, their own. I admire science and have faith in the process. But unfortunately, too many scientists and engineers do not obey science's own process: if there is physical evidence which contradicts their cherished theories (in the loss of timing, for instance), then they simply deny the evidence. I believe a new reliable test must be devised, that the current one does not measure true speed deviations. By true, I mean in practice, say with a current "generic" representative of the cartridge world and tonearm world - say a Shelter 501 mounted on the ubiquitous Regas and their clones - and playing a variety of actual records. Even this test would have all kinds of loopholes, but it would be a truer one than that currently concocted. I don't know what the current testing system is, but it is evident to me that it does not reflect the reality: lower-mass turntables almost universally are said to have excellent PRaT (in the press, in my own experinece, in forums such as these) while generally having lesss accurate speed measurements, while higher-mass tunrtables are almost universally said to lack it, while having generally higher published specs. Please note the "almost" I inserted, as I have not heard ALL high-mass turntables. But when I hear others' systems, or indeed play one of my classic 3-point suspensions, I hear that extra PRaT, whcih indeed is lacking in many heavier 'tables. While some want to say this is a distortion, I don't think so. My own heavy idler-wheels also have incredible PRaT, but they don't use belts, and are not classic 3-point suspensions. I believe the speed variations audible in various belt-drives are due to insufficient torque, and that depending on the mass the speed variations occur at lower frequencies in the case of high-mass turntables (and thus affect timing) or higher frequencies (and thus affect information-retrieval, detail). I may be wrong, but if I am right, or if it is some other thing, while these speed variations are entirely audible, they are not being meaured by the tests. The human ear and the human mind and yes, the human heart (emotions unfortunately definitely a part of listening to music) is thus still the best measuring instrument we have, if only we learn to trust our senses/reactions. Based on these senses/reactions, we should develop a new test which reflects our experience. Empirical science at work, senses/evidence show old test unreliable, new test devised which reflects our senses/evidence. This would lead to better designs. Anyway, up for your consideration. |
Hi George, there was a typo there, the word "motor" being excluded from "well-designed idler-wheel drive with a monstrous but designed exactly and precisely and solely for turntables motor", meaning a motor designed specifically for use on a turntable, and specifically to combat stylus drag. A similar but less impressive motor (and not specifically built for use in record players) was used in the design of the Versa Dynamics (or Rockport) turntable at some point, and reportedly cost upwards of $300 from the manufacturer. Unfortunately the adjustments and measurements to make this idler-wheel system work as well as it does are quite stringent, so the only practicable way to try the experiment is to buy a Lenco L75 or L78 (in North America, in Europe the armless versions are available), remove and replace the tonearm, use the entire Lenco motor/platter/top-plate and construct or have constructed for you a new heavy, non-resonant plinth, making it an unsuspended deck (which is simpler anyway, but does have sonic dividends). The Lenco motor is unsurpassed, its drive system superb, as is its platter, its bearing of high-quality, and its idler wheel the best ever designed. It's all explained in the very lengthy "Building high-end 'tables cheap at Home Despot" thread on this very forum, which is a lengthy process. For a briefer apercu, click on my "system" and also visit the following pithy website: http://members.home.nl/fmunniksma/Lencotdl.htm The cheapest way yet devised for blindingly good vinyl playback performance, an experiment on just how audible stylus drag is, and fun too! I'm an ornery critter ;-) So far the Mighty Lenco has defeated a Well Tempered Classic, a Nottingham Spacedeck, various Maplenolls, an Audiomeca, various Linn LP12s, and others reported to me via private e-mails. Cost is roughly $200 plus tonearm and cartridge of your choice, and to get the true measure of the 'table, don't short-change it with an el-cheapo tonearm, use at the very least some Rega or variant, 4yanx first bravely tried his with a Graham 2.2! And to continue the PRaT discussion, PRaT comes in various strengths, like alcohol. A 'table can have PRaT, but how much PRaT does it have? Below a certain level, it's the same as having none, and it can reach heights undreamed-of, as the Lenco Experiment shows. Anyway, bear in mind the design/advice/guidance is all free, the Lencos themselves are cheap, the experiment both fun and instructive, and I let the results speak for themselves. |
Thanks for clearing up matters 4yanx, I wouldn't say we disagree about the issue of PRaT, or more precisely the "word" PRaT or even its meaning, what it comes down to is that PRaT is a politically-charged word, a leftover from the Linny vs High-Mass American 'table wars of the '80s. So you're right, in order to open some eyes. In fact, many eyes already are open, even on the part of manufacturers, as high-mass turntables of all sorts are resorting to more and more ways to increase speed stability from their high-mass platters, (by the use of thread and mylar in lieu of rubber belts to the use of multiple motors and flywheels), another term might have to be adopted, such is politics.
And Artar1, you continue to misquote and perform your own kind of reductionism to my own writings: to say that PRaT, or to use a less politically-charged word, speed stability, is the most important quality in vinyl playback is something that has always been conventional wisdom, from quartz-locked direct-drive systems to the Lingo on the Linn and the use of several motors on the large Clearaudios, all these things were an admission that speed was not perfect, and needed more help. The use of several motors by Clearaudio on their already-massive platter is an admission that mass alone is not sufficient in a belt-drive system to achieve true speed stability (yes, I read the high-end analogue reviews as well and can name a list of expensive items as well as anyone in this forum, I just don't automatically covet them). And while measurements show one thing, my point has always been that despite these measurements, as you helpfully point out with respect to cheap DDs, these speed instabilities still exist and are clearly audible. The same applies to the large price-no-object turntables that come with very impressive measurements, but that in many cases lack musical involvement. This means there is a speed instability, and this instability is occurring at a lower frequency due to the high mass and thus inertia of the platter. Picture a loaded tractor-trailer vs a Toyota Corrolla: the truck has to start braking long before the light, and start up is euqally slow, due to its mass/inertia. The Toyota stops on a dime and starts equally quickly. Only a very high-torque system overcomes this, with a superb drive system and correctly-calculated flywheel system.
You continue your pandering of high-priced turntables by defending what you haven't heard, and raising accusations of jealousy. If you weren't so evidently in the status game from the beginning, you would know from my many posts - I admit fellows like 4yanx with his previous use of the expensive Graham 2.2 are more to your liking and so probably pay no attention to my posts except to defend high-price items for the sake of their price-tags - you would know that I own and have owned some quite expensive belt-drive turntables, two Maplenolls (Athena and Ariadne) and an Audiomeca, and so had nothing to gain from promotong Lencos. Until I accidentally tripped over idler-wheel drives (I didn't even know they existed) more than 10 years ago I had fully intended continuing on the high-end treadmill with more and more expensive pieces (at the end of the eighties I already owned MCs which cost roughly $2000).
Which brings me to the accusation that I am simply biased: I have guided many to rebuilding Lencos under their own steam, and to test them in their own systems to come to their own conclusions far away from my influence, and to report on it honestly on my thread if possible, or at the very least in e-mails. There is no more objective test possible in this world, so your accusation falls utterly flat. As to enemies, unfortunately this is no exaggeration, and is on record on my Home Despot thread (you should check into actual evidence before jumping to conclusions and making accusations), objective proof, not misinterpretation. One lied repeatedly and misrepresented both the experiment (evidence) and claimed I had written what I had never written, the other, perhaps like you, was simply jealous at the amount of atention I was getting, and sent me a personal e-mail entitled "You are a pussy", and tried to discredit my effort by various means. Again, if you had paid attention, I use the Lenco simply to demonstrate the enormous potential in idler-wheel-drive systems, which I believe to be the best approach, I confess (but again, I lead people to conduct the experiment in the laboratory of their own homes and systems and risk negative feedback, which has never occcurred). This is because the Lenco can still be had very cheaply, because of fellows like you who respect only price-tags and believe they will somehow be more respected if they fight to defend the status-quo (fellows like you also permeate science, which develops more slowly because of it...Galileo's greatest enemies were his colleagues, not the Church). I learned long ago that a lot of very expensive equipment sounds like crap, is utterly unmusical (some are even a-musical), a lesson you should learn as well by listening and trusting your reactions. In fact, this is becoming a theme in more and more high-end reviews, which is a definite sign of hope. As to the importance of PRaT, many manufacturers have always stressed its importance (Linn, Naim, Rega), and since the lack of it was clearly audible in certain over-priced items, a faction developed which claimed that PRaT was an illusion, which named the proponents Flat Earthers (thus implying they were being unscientific, though in fact the reverse was true), and stood by the expensive status-enhancing equipment. We dance to music, this is rhythm, the sheet-music is built on timing, the musicians have to keep perfect time, our breathing and heartbeats develop according to timing, and this is the biological root of our response to music. The harmonies depend on timing (destroyed by audible wow), the actual physical tracking of a cartridge improves the better the timing is. It bothers me not a whit if fellows like you are not impressed by my "diatribes", and please feel free to ignore any further posts, or if you feel you must address them, then please inform yourself first, and refrain from misrepresenting me.
As to those others who are watching, sorry for hijacking this thread in this way, but there is nothing I hate more than being misquoted and misrepresented. I personally believe that the best physical system so far developed for vinyl playback is the idler-wheel drive system, which I discovered all unawares more than 10 years ago in a flea market in Helsinki, which amounted to an instant conversion (and several there who actually heard it, as opposed to arguing what they had no experience of, had asked me to adapt the system to their extremely expensive record-playing systems). It was my hope when I started the Home Depot thread that I could get the world to test this theory in the laboratories of their own systems and thus provide the empirical testing and thus proof. So far, this is a 100% success. It is not a promotion of the Lenco, it is the use of the excellent but cheap Lenco to make the point, which by its very cheapness encourages nmany to make the attempt. So far even my enemies, who showed honour in this instance (something about Audiogon brings out the best in people, even when behaving badly), have admitted the Lenco was superb, even if they didn't accept the Lenco's version of events (tremendous bass, incredible air, astounding imaging, etc.) and claimed it was manufactured. It was my hope that some manufacturer out there would once again pick up the idler-weel technology and begin to manufacturer a new idler-wheel drive at a reasonable price (Loricraft/Garrard makes them, but at astronomical prices), so that all audiophiles could enjoy the benefits. I'm nothing if not an idealist, and probably incredibly naive to boot. I see now that it would be extremely expensive to produce something equivalent to the Lenco (but I would love to be proved wrong on this count), so I guess we're stuck with recycling the old technology. As Dougdeacon wrote, manufacturers ARE paying attention to the issue of PRaT (or whatever they want to call it), and are making decisions based on its presence or absence in their designs. They are also discovering that when true speed stability is achieved (not according to some evidently faulty test but in actually playing an album with real actual music on it and depending on visceral reaction as well as in terms of information), all else falls into place, given a good design to begin with. I applaud the developers of the Teres project for paying attention to these more musical less-easily pinned-down facets of vinyl reproduction, as I indeed applaud all who do so, and like-minded consumers as well. Audiogon is indeed my favourite forum, after all, glad I tripped over it by accident, as I tripped over the idler-wheel principle years ago ;-) |
Hi Raul, just a couple of notes to add. I will re-iterate that I never said or wrote that PRaT (or timing, or whatever...;-)) was the ONLY consideration, but the prime one, or "critical" one as you wrote. We differ, or divide on the following issue: while you seem to trust the measurements being offered by the various manufacturers, I don't, I think there is something wrong with the testing method, rendering the measurements moot. Which is to say that the 'tables in practice, playing real records with actual music, cartridges and so on (a dramatic stylus profile will cause more stylus drag and thus speed deviation than an easy conical one, to name but one possibility) suffer far larger speed deviations than they do in the lab, whose measurements do not reflect reality. Apart from that pretty fundamental issue, I agree with most of what you have to say, materials do their share in highlighting or damaging timing. And in the DD sweepstakes, I have found that I prefer the sound of the older big servo-controlled DDs like my Sony 2250 and a Technics SL1100 I have, both of which approximate the sound of a Linn LP12 (full of PRaT and flow) to the drier and more precise, but less rhythmic sound of the SP10 MKII. This too, I attribute to a speed instability which is falling below the radar of the testing method, which I believe to be as full of holes as a corporate document or a politcal speech.
Speaking of LP12s, I love the sound of classic 3-point suspensions, Pat, and when they play (I keep a modded AR-XA and Ariston RD11S around), I get immersed in the music and take a vacation from audio neurosis. They are, however, very agile, smooth and lush and extract an astonishing amount of information, and one could get neurotic if one was really determined ;-). In fact, ALL vinyl spinners blow my mind when I get them to perform properly, including my humble Connoisseur BD2 with Pickering cartridge (a total mind-blowing blast, cheap fun for an afternoon). After all these years, I still can't quite believe that a rock dragged through a squiggle can reproduce all those beautiful instruments and singers in my room. Awe. |
