Is the Teres a

Doug: Nice to hear someone else point out the critical nature of speed control/stability. Too often overlooked among talk of materials.

As far as PRAT goes, everyone seems to have their own definition. I would think that if anyone is referring to PRAT in the context of a table, they are referring to the table's ability to convey the "PRAT" as exhibited by the musicians in their work (as you mention), and not wishing for same conveyance to be "colored". Then again, I could be wrong. ;-)

Thom:
I very much appreciated your post, both in message and in tone. I was not planning to attend the "Rocky Mountain High" but if the comparison seesion to which you refer can be realized, I'm there. It is something I'd PAY to hear!

Voice (that's an instrument, right?), especially sustained female notes. Keyboard tremolo comes to mind, too. The kind that gives you a real "visceral" feel when it's reproduced correctly. Jean mentions the speed stability of his Lenco. I tried some newly acquired Tito Puente LP's (ones with a lot of vibraphone) on one of my Lenco projects and damned if that solid speed stability didn't let that sound come through in spades.

Sorry, though, this is waaaaay off topic.

I would like to see many of the tables mentioned in this thread, if not all, in the audition. I'd also like to see them shielded from view, in the sense that those passing their sonic judgments do not know which table is coming next! OK, I'm dreaming even beyond the likelihood that such an audition would come off at all. :-)

Whether some folks would admit it or not, or whether they'd actually try to disprove it or not, there is a great deal of merit in what Jean has to say. I will not attempt to compare the object of his challenge to any super high-end tables (e.g. a Walker or the like) because I have not done such a comparison myself. But, hey, Albert has a mighty fine Walker and he took the challenge, with a pretty damn favorable overall report, I might add (but not in direct comparison to the Walker, though). I have personally compared a couple of my own creations to a number of what are considered here to be mid-priced tables. Yes, I recognize that PRICE is not an absolute indicator of quality (as I have sadly found out on more than one occasion). However, anyone who has, say, a $2000-$5000 table and is still searching for the MUSIC, you would be well served to give his challenge, well, a challenge before spending another grand on that utopian cartridge or arm. Might not beat EVERY table in this class, but it won't cost you much to find out and I'm wagering you will at least get close, if you let your EARS do the deciding. Of course, it does take a modicum of skills to accomplish and, lacking that, maybe find someone to help. Else, feel free to over spend in comparison to several otherwise well regarded tables! :-)

I will agree that there are a variety of factors that combine to make a turntable PLEASING. I also do not particularly like the term PRAT, because it means different things to different people. It is kinda like some art. You know the old sating - I don't know what it is, but I know what I like. I also know that MUSIC is about MUSICALITY, and I know it when I hear it. Search for it, find it, and enjoy it, regardless of the package! :-)

Of course, this has nothing really to do with a Teres (a fine table) and the subject of the thread, or Art Dudley, a sidetrack in this thread, other than I think his focus on musicality is a good thing (while not agreeing wholly on his reviewing methods).

I like your half and half motto, Tom!

Well, I’m kinda hoping that, rather than argue, it can be realized that we are all after the same thing here with respect to turntable performance. Whether it’s called PRaT, or whatever, aren’t we all looking for the visceral, emotion-filled, faithful reproduction of the stuff in those grooves? You know, the music that makes you REALLY “dig it” for jazz fans, makes your foot stomp for rockers, makes your spirit soar for classic lovers, makes you feel down and stinkin’ for blues brothers, etc. Slam without being thumpy, mids without being colored, detail without being lifeless. How one “gets there” is somewhat irrelevant so long as the journey has a satisfying end for YOU, the only important listener.

The idea of speed stability and its effects of vinyl reproduction are not new, nor are they the creation of Jean. There are MANY, and several in this very thread, who espouse that as one of the ultimate objectives. Doug has noticed the effects in his iterations with different “beltings”. Tom recognizes and stresses its importance and I must say that I very much agree with his "I don't care if there is a hamster in an exercise wheel in that box, if it sounds good, I'm for it." That, after all, is the bottom line.

Jean, to his credit, brought to light the performance of the Lenco after having owned and, more importantly, worked on and constructed a good many different types of tables. Not to put words in his mouth, but Jean came to the conclusion that speed stability was a very crucial aspect of performance, if not the most important, and that the Lenco “got it right” – and at a bargain price. I always got the feeling that Jean, and others, believe that while the speed stability issues is crucial, it is not the only factor necessary to achieve satisfaction, with overall results being the ultimate measure of success. Jean describes this ultimate satisfaction as PRaT, but I do not think he would argue that speed stability is the only issue involved. Looking at the long Lenco thread, one sees discussions of a high-mass plinth, constrained layer damping, electrical wiring issues, tonearm positioning, headshells, platter mats, etc., etc. So, resonance control, wow and flutter, RF, tonearm/cartridge combos, and a host of other factors combine to “make the music” – not JUST speed stability.

As such, I believe that Jean’s assertion that PRaT (as he defines it) IS the ultimate goal and that it is what we all seek, whether we call it PRaT or something else. Again, and perhaps this is something on which Jean and I disagree, I do not like the PRaT label because it seems sometimes to be a crutch for proponents of many different reproduction approaches and evoking that word seems to set up false and resistive barriers. I know what I like, you know what you like, and we know it when we hear it. I took the Lenco plunge because I was interested in the challenge and I was looking for a relatively modestly priced audio-related project as a vehicle for teaching my son some basic engineering, electrical, physical, and woodworking principals. We were truly shocked at the performance realized for less than the cost of the tonearm cables many here use. So, we proved to ourselves that one does not HAVE to spend huge money to get huge sound. In that sense our efforts were a huge success.

Still, this really strays from the thread topic of Teres tables. I have heard several now and they are fine performing tables. But, whatever vehicle we use to spin those discs, I hope we are all absorbed in the results!

Patrick, I'm surprised some folks weren't then clamoring for a shoot-out betweeen R2R decks as a basis for deciding which to pit against the Linn. :-) I am beginning to agree with others who are souring on the whole shoot-out notion. May be kinda fun as exercise in listening for musical differences, but as long as your happy with what you have....

No, you've taken me all wrong, Pat, or I wasn't clear. What I meant was that with all this talk of shoot-outs between TABLES, it's the wonder folks weren't clamoring for a shoot-out between R2R decks before using one to compare to the Linn table - meaning that if the Linn equaled the R2R being used SOMEONE would be bound to say, "but if you used this other R2R.... :-O

I agree with what your saying in the a comparison to the master would be revealing.