Gbmcleod,
I have used both these and their lastest incarnations.
I found both outlet are very good, almost a yin and yang kind of difference.
There both do things very well but have a sound in a different polar directions.
Simply put, the Furutech beat the Blacks in the mid regions texture and sound much more organic. The blacks have better frequency extremes and a drier mid region and sound more technical.
Depending on how one's systems sounds, choosing incorrectly the use of either of these plugs and one could be missing out sonically in an important way, though both will sound very very good. |
Gbmcleod,
I havent been auditioning equipment so am not in a position to comment how these 2 outlets synergise with certain charateristic of particular brands of equipment each given there particlar sonic footprints.
I have a teslaplex se feeding a psaudio p300(with red fuse) which has a Ncf and black outlet.
The black feeds my esoteric k01x and clock and the ncf feeds a bsgt qol, w4s/sonos streamer and FMC switch(with black fuses) and i find it just rightly balanced now although i have another black outlet and gtx to introduce.
I have tried adding the gtx elsewhere, but now leads to a slightly warmer, mid centric balance which is more musically pleasing to the ear but not as extended in the extremes over the mix of outlets i am using now.
I do however find both outlets have a very distinct sonic footprint even when used on another power line feeding my router and internet. But dont discount both as the very best overall soynding outlets.
I have used all incarnations of oyaide (now totally removed), wattages and some earlier furutech outlets and used and still using all incarnations of synergistic outlets.
Of interest is that my red fuse has intentionally been installed in the p300 in the wrong direction. This gives a slight less upfront, vivid and detailed presentation as the "added clarity and forward focus" sounds less relaxing and musical to me. The black fuse in this location upstream again adds another small meaningful stepup up in clarity and detail, again seems too much. I am thus hesistant to replace the Teslaplex se with the black outlet upstream before the ps regenerator.
The trick is that there is no clear winner between with the blacks and gtx/ncf or the red and black fuses and find they complement each strengths of outlets and fuses as they have different sonic character and excels in different areas.
The time i have spent comparing the Red and Black fuse and also had used the SR20 many year back is that the red fuse went the way of a softer more musical presentation. Now the black fuse has added clarity, definition and frequency extremes, but also a less musicall saturated tonality which i find as a slight washout sonically(but allows a better perception of depth as the details are nit upfront compwting wirh one another) and takes a step back in time towards the presentation of the SR20 fuse.
My summary is that the black outlet will most certainly work in a warmer less upfront sounding system and the gtx in systems wanting more fullness and richer musicality in a less technical fashion.
Again, introducing a number of both these outlets might still be the best compromise to acheive the best sonic balance when used synergistically together in whichever mix and number in any given system where one has carefully strived to achieve a more sonically balanced presentation.
I am unfortuantely not familiar wirh the current cj gear, but have owned the 12monos and 14 pre years back. Then intending to upgrade to the 17 and 16 pre lead me to finding a different setup. When auditiing the cheaper 17, the gains in dynamics, clarity was a jump improvement purely on technical aspects as the comparing the 16 again took away from this technical presentation with a new level of musicality lead me to stratch my head and seek out an overall more balanced soumding equipment that is more acceptable over a larger genres of music.
I have gone though my share of phases of upgrading or so called changing the setup and tweak towards a particular sonic presentation where clearly direction of tweak or cables away made an distinct improvement and relate back where i would have solely and clearly chosen the black outlet/fuse presentation. They have voice their tweak in a certain direction similarly and will appeal to a larger audience, who doeant like added definity, clarity, tighter bass etc. All sound great, but there is no free lunch where one should carefully assess areas where these gains may cause detraction in other area, much like a see saw i must say.
Overtime, i understood that is was purely a result of my earlier system not being balanced enough and overly skewed in 1 sonic direction and found adding certain tweaks giving tigher bass, clarity etc to compensate for this difficiency. |
The black outlet is a $5 item and it IS magnetic, tested and confirmed. No special or audiophile approved strap used. Period. |
Gbmcleod,
The teslaplex se will not fit together with a GTX, but the narrow Black (of Non SE) which combo i was using previously could. 2 GTX or 2 Teslaplex SE's will not fit the P300 in this combination.
I especially value the cleanwave of the p300 which does clear the sound a bit, much like running a demag disc.
It's been a pleasure engaging in meaningful discussions with you and it very constructive in our tweaking quest.
My other black outlet is installed, yes, a calmer or organised sound with a tad more rigid sound, still good and does better slightly the SE it replaces.
This control of sounds appears to also limit the high frequency brilliance and any residual bloom in the mid regions and bass, though it does go deeper. Please read brilliance that this is not glare, harshness , hardness or tinnitus effect. I may be fortunate to not have any traces of these negative artifiacts in my system now.
As from a fresh memory. this brilliance in treble and high frequencies even compared to the SE and even more so to the GTX or GTX(NCF) could be considered as a downfall, though still sound good and pleasing.
The changes introducing another black outlet and fuse does not make for a large change, it's improvements now, i would consider more a change sonically. Do not that this is 2nd black outlet including fuses.
I would not fret over leaving the SE or have any real preference over the black now.
It goes for the fuses and the red fuse can and will probably stay. Incidentally, i have intentionally compared these 2 fuse in the wrong orientation (which i prefer actually sound more musical over the hyped up sound i was getting in the "correct" position which though technically better in audiophile terms was fatiguing and less musical to me.
As with equipment, the voicing or match has now to be determined by the user and tedious comparisions of various equipment and tweaks.
i do look forward to your further findings, so as that may provide me with a 2nd opinion with these outlets and also re-evaluate which areas may be lacking and re-optimize the combinations of outlets.
To hasten the burn-in process and settling time in the systems, i have found using the cleanwave of the p300 (Multiwave set) together with a burn in disc afther reintroducing any component does seem to normalise the sound thereafter rather quickly especially set to repeat overnight or even a shorter time frame. |
Gbmcleod,
Yes and yes, we have the similar conclusion with the fuse in the p300 (btw, mine has multive II , so there will be the cleanwave function, sort of like a degausser and helping giving details and clarity a little boost after a period of time. I also prefer the red fuse in the wrong direction in the p300 which is less hard and direct sounding, topped of with a WA quantum chip. No descernable improvements with the black (also in the wrong direction) and still dont prefer it over the red here. black at all.
The gtx-d ncf does smooth things a little more than the black and finding it has more pastel shadings, richer tones and not as revealing as the black outlet. The black does have an edge organising all the sound in the stage enabling for a better revealing of details and inflectiona of voices and intruments, not that the gtx ncf is missing any details over the black outlet.
Yes, you can fit a black outlet and gtx together in the p300 or 2 black outlets.
I did detect intially that the black has noticeably less brilliance or sparkle in the highs, and not surprised that the rhodium has likely allowed for better high frequencies typical of silver or rhodium platings. It was a bit detracting for me that the black outlet sounded more monochromatic with especially with cymbals and wonder if you also detected this.
Not surprising that now addng the black fuse in the p300 did amolerate this duller high frequencies encountered with the black oulet over the teslaplex se used for other dedicated line for my router, modem and fmc for streaming tidal. This charteristic also shows when comparing the gtx ncf directly with the black outlet at the p300 outputs.
I have 3 dedicated line used.
1. Teslaplex se wall to p300 then 1 black and 1 gtx ncf for cd, pre
2. Teslaplex se at wall feeding mono amps
3. Ps audio power port at wall to Black (most recently from the Teslaplex se) which powere the modem, router and fmc for streaming Tidal.
I dont feel the need to upgrade the other SE’s as i think they currently provide an overall balanced enough quality sound. I still have the old gtx r but it could possibly steer towards a warmer balance i dont seem to need. Replacing the Se’s with another black could possibly steer the overall balance a little cooler than i may want based on what experience i have gained with these testing these outlets. That’s why i then tried adding another black fuse i the p300 which did not work out well.
Currently my conclusion seems to steer to the fact the the last black outlet replacing the SE hasnt made much of a further improvement or change sonically and would be hard to tell either outlet if took a week of listening to the system.
The extra black fuse which i am not using actually makes for a more appearent change sonically which i felt was over the top by adding too much clarity along with some hardness which i dont care for or prefer. On the objective side of evaluation tells me it is adding change and improvements, but musically feel less connected and ultimately finding the extra clarity tiring.
So it seems the red fuse and used in the wrong direction makes for a much more enduring listening sesions for me on a wide range of different music.
|
gmbcleod,
The red fuse runs from the side of the p300 (SR) in the same direction of lettering on the fuse. Please note what i meant that i reversed installed based on listening, the other direction from R to S is what i feel "IS" the correct direction with slightly more focus and upfront details, but just didnt like it here. All my other fuse, i think is wiring in the correct direction offered a more solidity and focus to the sound. Strange but that was how it ended up.
I have tried Audiopoints and SR M.I.G, thought again offering more focus, tightening of the bass etc, i now use is sideways(due to space constrants) on a 5 inch block of Massacar ebony. i havent really further experimented. I also find the most balanced sound is using sinewave at 60hz.
Position of the outlets i feel do offer possibly better synergy in the correct location, but it a bit more work than i want to do, unless i find that particular installation not at all to my liking and would be compelled to perform more test and swapping locations. I do think from the instals of these outlets is that there signature will somehow permeate though no matter where they are installed! I have pick up a reference from another forumer in the fuse thread has even installed these outlets in not audio connected location and experienced an improvement. I believe it does have some impact!
I think it would be worthwhile having a black instead of SE at the back of the p300.
I used to be a tubehead, Cj's, jadis's but gone from tubes to solid state (not those with a typical clean, SS sound) but one i could still identify with tubes and yet have all the bass slam i could want). But that musical connection is still very much important to me.
Jea, i might add that from the early days of the Teslaplex, SR20 fuse, i am most certain that there is something from Quantum tunneling and use my audiodharma religiously because it does offer an improvement.
What would be interesting is that does the tunneling SR does retain this character over an extended period of time, or will it revert over time to sound like that exact $3 outlet.
As proponents of cable cookers do state periodic 6 monthly recharges of 1-2 days is required as the burn in effects are not permanent.
It is of interest that i had a conversation with a designer and manufacturer of a burn-in device which was to be offered with a few thousand dollars worth of Duelund silver/copper caps in the PSU or circuit as somehow, the characteristic sonic properties of these capacitors somehow find their signature being passed on into whatever is being conditioned with their burn in equipment. |
My additional black outlet is settled and with tweaking room acoustics, i use quite a fair bit but have equalised the highs that was a tad dull, inluding a touch od silve paste walker esst, after the addition of the 2nd black outlet. It sound fine, but knowing that brilliance which allows that silvery sheen to emerge which allows cymbals to take on a more realistic metallic edge is still not comparable with the T. SE and gtx r which is in the upper midrange up "presence"region, but other than that i like how it sounds in orher areas.
This is almist exactly like 2 same photographs, one with saturated colours in which colourful objects pops upfront and the very same photo with more neutral tones allowing you to see more deeply as if you took a step back as there are no catchy colours pushing and competing for your eyes attention.
I going to allow myself more listening time not focussing on this to see if i still feel shortchanged after which i will then have no choice but to reintroduce the T. SE or Gtx R in to the chain.
Possibly introducing the GtxR elsewhere or even in an unused socket might be the ticket in restoring that last bit of brilliance. I intentionally use brilliance as opposed to terms like sharp or glary, because it is not.
As for the p300, 1hz below adda a tad more warm, maybe bit much sometimes and 61hz shows more dynamic contrast and tightness, but also less presence and a whitish tonality accross the board. |
Gbm,
I am not looking for the perfect outlet nor really find the "One" that promises to be the last in outlets.
I merely try my best to find the strengths and weaknesses in the outlet.
I agree and find the black still a very good outlet, but knowing the upper midrange doesnt come alive, without comparisons it actually will sound very good and most will feel nothing ever was lacking.
I did'nt have a choice but to reintroduce the GTX (non-ncf) connected to the p300 and as with my previous conclusion and what your impressions mirrors, sound a not as clear, open overall and slightly warmer than i would like. This certainly would suit a dull system or one that needs more upfront clarity. The black would be e best bet on a tube or warmer system even better.
However, the areas which the black lacks, the GTX shines.
The GTX however remains in my distributor but now connected a non audio chain equipment (Telos Q Noise Reducer), in doing so, it has reintroduced that slight bit of upper midrange onwards brilliance and presence back in the system while not sounding a bit fuller or warm , which is also not my preference. Just for example, if the black was a 5 on the warmness scale, the GTX would be a 7.5 to 8 where my preference would be a 6.5 on this scale.
To highlight, the Furutech's are pure copper, you will get a purer, clear, organic and warmer sound which are traits of copper over brass, period. The brass contacts of the black outlet will never provide sonically what a pure copper plated connectors bring sonically to the table.
I also find that the SE is still a good outlet overall and and has many good qualities which might also be easier to fit into the majority of systems over the black outlet, which may sway too much leaning out the sound.
The black outlet does sound thinner and on certain few recordings, bass weight can also seem to vanish.
Moving away slightly from this topic, i did also purchase a NCF inlet, but it is slightly wider than the standard iec inlet and was not installed as enlarging the casing is required. As NCF is made of nano crystalline and carbon in the mix and affect emf, it now sits between the heads of 2 cables come out from the p300. Holy, it affects the sound using it this way, it adds a wholesome organic and further delicate smoothness to the sound, this complements what the black outlet does'nt provide in it's sonic presentation.
Strangely used, but the inlet stays sitting there between the 2 connectors!
There is something to further experiment with the NCF mixture, it is actually very potent sonically, with or without the copper rhodium contacts. |
Allan,
If you read the sonic traits i have listed, i would call all 3 outlets i use together, NCF, Black and SE all top contenders.
They each sound different and i would call any worst or better, top notch sound from each but due to their different sonic traits and presentations, each could synergise better that the other in any given system.
I would list it as:
1)NCF - most detailed, organic, rich, full, with best high frequencies tad leaning towards a warmer, calmer mid-centric presentation. Bass does not go as low as the black.
2)Black - Very detailed, more laid back, quiet organised sound at an expense of finer and more present HF information, less midrange energy but deepest bass of the lot. Think of it as a NCF but subtracting from the fuller midrange (and leanng out this region) so as to stretch and kneading this region down toward the low regions of the frequencies.
3)Detailed, overall most balanced but less high end brilliance, micro detail and organic sound than the NCF. Not as organised and distant presentation as the black so you get more midrange energy but can be a little harder sounding and a notch below than the other 2 contenders. There seems to be less of a sonic trait bias of the lot. |
Thank for the update.
I am glad my ears are not failing me and no other users had this impression on what i was hearing or impressions.
Though system dependent, these characteristics do somehow manifest in any systems, especially given the experience and similar outlets we have used before provides a good base.
The NCF has an uncanny naturalness that imparts to the sound, if overdone or used incorrectly, can start sounding somewhat very slightly mellow and less attack when required, yet retain a superb organic rightness over ANY outlet i have used before.
I attribute this to the NCF composition, there is a uber NCF wall plate now which i am certain can have a HUGH impact sonically towards this all natural sound.
So please i am not looking forward to a $399 Purple outlet in future! The Tesla was their best effort at a reasonable price too. A well combined use of different outlets will gain the best results! |
