Is the EMM DAC6e or DCC2 /CDSD the best out there?

as my system includes both Oneobgyn's emmlabs gear and SOTA vinyl i do this comparison every day.

if comparing very good (top 30% of 6000 lps) vinyl (of the same recording) to the very best digital (redbook or SACD) the vinyl is at a higher level of musical performance.

weekly i have various audio friends over for this comparison. the result is ALWAYS the same.

the system is full range; the room is good; the associated gear is all competent.

another thing. as my system has improved over this last year the gap between vinyl and digital has increased. digital has a relative performance ceiling since resolution is limited; vinyl continues to reveal more and more as the system gets more out of the way.

anyone who needs convincing; just show up any Saturday afternoon about 4:00pm (Alex, come on up!....bring your new toy).

that said; the digital performance is staggeringly good and fully satisfying. i completely understand how one might feel that the top digital performance that they are hearing must be equal or better than where they feel vinyl is. all can say to those sensible people is......until you hear them side by side (as i do for about 4 hours daily)......you won't believe.

Guido;

"I am quite sure even old Ludwig Wittgenstein would find it problematic on purely logical or epistemological grounds."

if you're going to kick my ass please speak English.

:^)

but seriously......my comments about my SODA (i assume you mean SOTA--state of the art) vinyl setup performance being musically superior to digital is my perspective......my opinion......my feelings.

to be more specific; the emmlabs represents an acknowledged reference of the best digital performance. not to say there are not others; but for sure the emmlabs is in that very top level of digital performance.

if then, my vinyl setup consistently delivers a more satisfying musical performance then it is completely valid for me to say that. yes, i am specifically saying that at the very top of both formats vinyl is superior in reproducing music according to my and 100% of many others musical judgements visiting my room (25-30 listeners) in the recent months.

if we are judgeing the performance potential of two formats; and at least one setup represents the best of that format; and the other format is judged consistently better......then it is valid logically to say that one format is musically better. that is not the whole story; but it is not invalid.

now, this is only a subjective opinion shared by myself and other visitors to my room. and for sure; YMMV. certainly, there may be some/many that may not reach the same conclusion......which wouldn't invalidate their perspectives.

to call my perspective 'invalid' is quite pompous and unsupportable. this is not science but art which we are judging; which calls for subjective opinions; not scientific method.

have a nice day.

actually, as i was born in 1951......i may have been him in my past life.

OB my friend;

sorry if my comment is not clear enough. i will try to expand on it.

when i say "vinyl continues to reveal more and more as the system gets more out of the way" i am describing my audio philosophy......which is......as one's system improves there is less and less between the content of the software (the music) and your listening experience.

in the last year i have changed everything in my system except my sources. when i first moved into my new room there were components that made their character and limitations known; you were here to listen at that time.

the speakers simply could not energize the room and low bass (under 40hz) was not evidant.

the new room was much more 'live'......as opposed to the slightly over-damped character of the old room. the Kharma Exquisites were still slightly soft on top and the tonal balance was not bad. but, the new VR9 speakers added even more high frequency energy. the additional bass energy of the new speakers combined with the additional high frequency energy really took the whole system out of balance. combine all that with my learning curve on all the adjustability of the speakers and i had taken 2 steps forward but one step back.

i was hearing way more information from my system but this additional info was causing problems.

my 3 year reference phono cartridge, the vdH Colibri, is the most explosive and life-like piece of audio gear i have ever heard. in my old room and old system; the Colibri was happy with the system. the 'old' system 'hid' the problems the new system exposed.

for a few months i was not sure what was causing what. did the Colibri have a problem? was it my phono stage or preamp? maybe the amps? i was not sure. maybe the room was too live......or i didn't have the speakers adjusted properly.

as i lived with the new speakers and tried to get the Colibri to blend into the new room and system i started to make some progress.

first, a friend brought over the Grand Prix amp stands.....WOW......everything got more natural, more detail, better more solid and articulate bass. i bought GP amp stands and racks......big improvement.

next, i bought some Jena Labs Fundamental 1 power cords for the subwoofer amps...WOW......the bass improved a ton in every way....tighter, deeper, and more articulate. in addition, the whole frequency range cleaned up.

i had been using both the Tenors and darTZeel amps with the Placette passive. i was still getting some edge with the Colibri. i finally assumed the issue was the Colibri and bought a Dynavector XV-1s to try. the edge went away but so did the vividness and dynamic explosiveness. i liked the XV-1s but missed the Colibri.

all along the digital had been 'happy'......there was no problem and i had felt that the emmlabs had somehow crept closer to the vinyl performance......especially with the XV-1s.

then the new battery powered darTZeel preamp arrived. this turned out to be the 'missing link'. to make a long story short; i was able to get the Colibri back into the system and now all that information that the Colibri had been killing me with became 'music'......the vinyl performance has leapt to a few levels beyond anything i have yet heard.

yes, the digital was also improved but not nearly to the degree. the potential of the vinyl format simply allows a much larger upside. if your vinyl system is capable of exposing enough information the comparison is no contest.

but to live at that level of information all must be right. when the rest of your system gets the hell out of the way......in other words......your speakers, amps, racks, cables, and room are synergistic, neutral and not limiting......then the most revealing vinyl components will reveal more musical information and deliver more musical satisfaction than any digital i have heard.

the improvements to my system did improve the digital; but the degree was considerably less and the final performance level was also less.

if you play around with vinyl for awhile at a fairly high level you will soon come to the conclusion that anything you do makes large differences.....sometimes amazingly large differences. why? IMHO it's because there simply is so much info in those grooves.

take 5 digital players at $5000 increments from $1000 to $26,000......the best one's at each price point. compare.

tweak them all. listen again.

do the same for vinyl.

at each commitment level for vinyl there will be clear improvements. and if you continue up the scale past $26k for vinyl there will continue to be clear improvements on up for awhile.

much past $10k all digital will be similar....and it will be more issues of difference as opposed to improvement. this is not a bad thing but speaks to limits of resolution.

as you continue to lower the noise floor of vinyl playback with more and more sophisticated gear more and more info is exposed. i don't think we are thru yet in this direction.

my digital and vinyl experience of the last 10 years is exactly that comparison.

i rest my case.

sorry to go on but the answer to your question is not simple.

"Well I had assumed that when you say "get out of the way of the music" you were referring to the invisibility of your speakers."

it is not possible to isolate issues to one factor.....and more than a few speakers 'disappear'. in addition there is more than one version of 'getting out of the way of the music'.....i'm sure many systems do that.

i'm referring to an overall ability of a 'system' to 'meld' together and allow the source and speakers to be optimized.....maximum info from the source....and the listener then recieves the 'whole'.

i am most definitly referring to more, better and closer......as opposed to different.

that is the beauty of my Colibri cartridge......it tells you so much that if the delivery system for that info is not 'just right' it sounds like garbage. there is no different...there is only right and wrong.

which is not to say that my or anyone's system is totally without colorations......but that they are fairly insignificant IMHO to my ears.

Alex; you will be welcome here any time it might work out.

as far as your generous suggestion; unfortunately my current setup for vinyl utilizes a pre-production darTZeel preamp with only BNC outputs operational. therefore i have no way to input the phono signal into a CD burner from my phono stage/pre. even if your burner had a RIAA chip that would accept the direct signal from the tt; that would miss the 'magic' that the darTZeel phono/pre is doing.

my own dart pre is due 'yesterday' (the hope is before the new year); it will have multiple outputs that will work fine.

i have not burned CD's from Lp's in the past; what level of A to D is sufficient? and is that level resident in your burner?

i am currently in the market for a standalone CD burner (focused on improving redbook, not on burning CD's from Lp's......why would i want to dumb-down my Lp's anyway?) and have read all the current buzz on the Reality Check and other approaches as well as different CDR's. i am looking for some clarity on which direction is best and then plan to jump into that.

in any case; i'm not sure the timing for CES will work with this scheme......but i am game for it however soon it can be worked out.

i do look forward to hearing your latest at CES.