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My London Decca cartridge on OTOH does staging I would describe as 'other worldly' in comparison to any other cartridge or digital I've ever heard. I used to think it was artificial but I can't see a cartridge having the ability to rearrange the sound stage. The only conclusion I can come to is that analog does in fact provide a much more defined and accurate as engineered sound stage. This has been my overall experience. |
For me 'better' is simply more defined. The Decca cartridges have the ability to produce very sharply defined point source imaging. Should this be considered artificial because it does not follow general design convention? 30 years ago I bought an Audio Quest cartridge for $75.00 that had no mags or coils but only a tiny circuit board to which the cantilever was attached. This thing was rejected by the audio community as an inferior design. Funny thing is it performed similar to the Decca and one of the best I've ever heard. Ime, cartridges in general produce a relatively vague sound stage. The very reason why their are so many different camps trying to capture a semblance of reality in their systems. Before digital hit the scene, there was not the sharp division between the tube guys and the rest. Interesting. |
I'm not sure you can call the Decca a cantilevered cartridge. They do make short cantilevered conventionally designed cartridges but I was referring to the original Decca Blue, Red, or Gold type. In the original versions, a line contact stylus is mounted in the end of a verticle post which is quite long and then bent to horizontally engage the coils. Said post is then damped/secured by a 'rope' which is tied around it near the stylus and attached under tension at the rear. There is no suspension. I think it's the positive downward impact of the stylus and subsequent resonance of the rope that yields this result.
We already have hybrid components but referring to analog/digital, I wonder what cartridge manufacturers would have come up with by now had digital remained a phenomenon or an anomaly. |
Ralph, you made a very good point about tone-arm oscillation. All my records have a pencil line on the label of each side which serves as an alignment tool to precisely center the record before play. I've been doing this since my first system. The salesman who sold it to me threw in a Sure test record with a pencil line drawn out perpendicular to the spindle. It took a little while but it did dawn on me. Otherwise, only half the record is being accurately tracked. I know you were referring to something else but I think this is much more relevant. |
Engineers are very well aware of what can be expected at the outcome. Hence their title. They are compensating for every limitation they are aware of in the play back system. Their goal is the same as ours, ie: those who care about accuracy. They do after all listen to playback before production. So the onus is on the gear to replicate what was intended, is it not? Variations in the performance of the gear is what this pursuit is all about. If this is not the case, then what is the purpose of the sound engineer? |
Wow, that sucks. I'm shattered. Does it matter? mmmmm..nope. Still a lot of great stuff out there I haven't heard yet. |
You're kidding yourself if you think you're hearing frequencies coming from areas or the plane they're not being produced except for diffraction and room reflections which are by no means precisely directed. The best you can hope for is a coincidence. Drivers are typically placed on the plane where their specific frequency band coincides with roughly where you would expect to hear those specific frequencies for a natural production of sound. Sound engineers may be manipulators but not magicians (in the real sense anyway). Speaker design itself I think plays a much bigger role in the height of the sound stage than does the recording. I think that's true for the other components too. Does it not follow that there should be a relatively consistent outcome? |
I'm from the camp who's position is 'been there, done that' regarding original music production. Not much if any new stuff is worth while anyway. There's so much original vinyl out there I haven't heard that I'd need at least two more lifetimes to sample it all. |
Who the hell cares? If there is a sound stage, why do I care if it's faithful to the original? I'm far more occupied with replicating the final version 'accurately'. That's what I care about. Because along with that goes the entire sphere of the performance issues of my gear. My goodness! Who of you have systems so perfect so as to have the need to focus on outside parameters? We only have control over decisions we make about our gear. |
It seems you've answered your own question. Room geometry and speaker placement are clearly responsible for the effects we hear. A sphere is the ideal cabinet so any diffraction caused by a 'box' is an artifact. If you fastened your speakers to a wall as if it were the floor, what do you think you'd hear? |
I really think our subconscious expectations play a major role in the construction of the sound stage. Add to that the engineer's ability to inject the correct sonic cues, ie: tone, distance, decay, and viola, things are just where they should be. |
Looking forward to receiving mine:) And the others too!
Thanks, Rodman.
BTW, I was going to word it a little differently, Al;) You certainly didn't take the words out of my mouth. |
The verdict is in. I just listened to Roger Waters' Amused To Death. I must say I'm definitely not amused. Sound engineers definitely 'are' magicians! I'm hearing point source information as far to the left and right of my speakers as they are apart. Truly amazing. |
Geoff, it's interesting you would consider Newbee's comment ie: 'soundstage capabilities optimized', absolute. According to who? Him? You? Were you there? Are Newbee's ears perfect? Are instruments perfect?
Doesn't change what Al said one iota.
Oh, but it does dismiss your comment.
Exactamundo!
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Thank you, Ralph. My experience is consistent in that regard but I wasn't kidding about just how far from the speakers I'm hearing this effect on that particular recording. I mentioned it because it blows away my earlier premise and confirms Al's and Rodman's evidence. I wasn't aware that was possible. I still can't get my head around it. It's incredible. Like surround sound without the side speakers. I have a Bedini B.A.S.E. processor but it's effect is not that strong. |
