Is revealing always good?

Newbee: Thanks!

I have a tubed pre-amp. Earlier I had a tubed Ayon CD player and the digititus then was not a problem (as much). I got rid of that unit for other reasons. I will ask others about the tube buffer.

So... a theoretical question for all... do tubes (in a pre-amp or the CD player) color and obscure the digititus that is on the disk and thereby give a smoother more listenable presentation? If so, is this an example of positive coloration? Is it an example of a less "true" yet better presentation of the recording? Finally, are tubes so often preferred because we like the coloration --- the sonic contributions they ADD to the sound? All this goes back to the contention that revealing is not always good and coloration not always bad.

I listen to many 50's & 60's Ruby Van Gelder era Redbook CDs --- some 130 or so of them in rotation because i love that era of jazz. many of these CD's have rather tizzy, grating piano and clarinet --- much digititus. When using a 4K revealing CD player in a 20K system about 1/2 these CDs were too grating to enjoy --- and many of the rest were modestly irritating. On a Creek 1.5K CD player in the same system this darker (presumably colored) CD player rounded off the vast majority of the digititus and the CDs that were unlistenable on the revealing CD player were enjoyable on this more colored, darker player. Admittedly, with reference-level recordings the revealing player was much better. But for lesser recording --- especially redbook CDs with digititus --- a colored, less revealing CD player is much preferable.

My point, counter to Mapman is that revealing is by no means always better --- not if what is revealed is poorly recorded (albeit outstanding) music. Also, sometimes coloration --- if it masks the problems --- is a good thing.

I do not want to give up listening to great music just because of modest to poor recording quality. Revealing bad sonics is not a good thing and masking (at least some of the bad attributes) is better.

Newbee:

What do think of perhaps using an external tube output stage after the CD player but before the preamp?

my speakers are PBN Montana EPS2's. My pre-amp is a tubed AVA unit and my amp is a SS AVA amp.

ahh... Maplegrove, only one variable was manipulated. The system, the room and the CD's remained constant and the only variable modified was changing the CD players one for another. And yes, when the sonic signature changes when only one variable is modified the change is due to that variable.

You used the term "narrow minded" incorrectly and out of context. Further, complete sentences are a nice thing in posts. Finally, I have received much very valuable advise on this board.

for clarification, the system sounds fantastic with well recorded CDs --- better with the more revealing CD player but still excellent with the less revealing player. With CDs that have typical recording quality again the system approaches sounding excellent with either CD player (slightly better with the more expensive revealing player.. but quite close and still very, very nice sounding) The issue arises when the CD is recorded with digititus, brightness --- typical of a good subset of the CDs i like to listen to. With these CDs the revealing player sounds biting, harsh and "lets through everything." Through the less revealing player, these CDs sound much better. Seemingly, the Creek (the less revealing player) presumably "rounds off" (adds coloration?) makes more smooth the digititus and makes quite listenable these CDs. The more revealing (less colored... more neutral?) CD player renders these CDs as they are... harsh and biting. So... yes it is the nature of these recordings to be harsh. This is largely why so many prefer analog over digital --- because much redbook digital is poorly recorded.

Based on this, I assert that coloration --- a component asserting its own character --- is not always bad and that neutrality is not always the best.

Thus, for digital playback... revealing may not be that desirable.

Sgordon1:

Thanks. I do have the original feet on the CD player & have not tried vibration control on the CD player (I do have footers and vibration control on my amp and pre-amp though. The shelf... is a wooden shelf set on carpet and itself has no intrinsic vibration control (though it is designed for audio equipment.. but of the cheap variety).

I am not cleaning the CDs. Do you have some suggestions in this area?

Finally no CD mat (by this you mean on top of the CD as it spins.. right? --- If so, since the Creek is a slot loader, no such mat could be accommodated). Or, are to talking a weight placed upon the CD player to eleviate vibrations.

Zd542:

You are spot on --- it is incredibly important to hear a component in your system before you buy. That said, more often than not (by a wide margin) we cannot do so. If, like me, you live over 500 miles from the nearest high-end dealer and cannot get a component "on loan" and because buying used here at Agon rarely accommodates "testing out prior to purchase," and moreover, because most dealers on the internet make you purchase w/o audition and if they do allow return they charge restocking (or give only store credit)... well we are relegated to purchasing and hoping it works out... and selling on Agon if it does not.

But i agree... hearing first is the ideal.

Jafreeman:

i am very much open to the notion of a tube change out. I am using the stock tubes. No... I am in boondocks Idaho very near Yellowstone --- wonderful area, beautiful... but remote from ... well everything.

My preamp is an AVA transcendence 9 with 2 6CG7 tubes in the line section. Do you have suggestions for replacement tubes (and a vendor of choice)?

Audioengr:

I doubtless have a ground-loop hum issue. I have tried to resolve this with cheater plugs w/o success. Perhaps i am not using the cheater plugs rightly in the isolation of the hum issue. But I have ground loop issues (or, at least what I think are ground loop issues) that i do not know how to resolve. Any help would be appreciated.

Your contention is that this could be the culprit. I'd love some counsel. Thanks Audioengr (Steve)

JaFreeman --- THANK YOU!

I replaced my 6CG7 tubes that came with my AVA preamp (a Transcendence 8+) --- which were new Russian tubes --- with NOS Sov Tec tubes and all the etch and grain went away and the difference is rather amazing! Many CD's I could not enjoy before I can now enjoy. Why does AVA put crap tubes in their gear?

Again... thanks JaFreeman, your counsel helped a great deal.