Is Rap a valid musical form?


This has been way more than the progression away from tubes to SS!

Believe the world of Hip Hop has been around and evolving for around 5 decades.

And for most of that time I have dismissed and avoided that world and its “music”.

So angry, offensive and abrasive. Just a bunch of rhythmic yelling.

I believe my former thread was titled “Why Rap?”.  Through that discussion and somewhat of an understanding that this must be a new art form that engages and entertains millions if not billions. That and a long standing belief that if a type of music or a particular artist attracts many, many fans there must be substance and quality there. Even if I personally don’t particularly like it there must be something there.

Rap and the Hip Hop world was always so foreign and culturally untouchable.

Then my Rap thread and several others at that time got me rethinking my perspective and I watched a video of a group of student performance musicians at Juilliard all exclaiming their fascination with a Rap artist named Kendrick Lemar and his “masterpiece” “To Pimp a Butterfly”. I bought the double LP. Trying to listen to it turned out to be difficult because of my old view of Rap and that of the world of Hip Hop. But it was also becoming clear that this was truly something of significant interest. However, I just listened to the two discs only once-with some difficulty.

Today, after several weeks, I hesitatingly pulled the album out again. And to my surprise and actually delight hearing it with fresh ears it grabbed me and would not let go. I immediately heard the brilliance of a multi faceted, and to me, all new experience in sound. Not unlike great 20th century or progressive Jazz it evolved from section to section with a plethora of fascinating, yes musical, experiences. Tonal, atonal, percussive, rhythmic, breathing combined with incredible, energetic tongue twisting strings of mostly unintelligible words. And not merely angry yelling.

Sure, a ton of F bombs but words that don’t flow over you like lovely other genres but invade the psyche and don’t let go. Not particularly pleasant but gripping and interesting in its complexity. Words delivered with such power and drive which acted as a rhythmic counterpoint. It was impossible to turn away or turn off. 
And speaking of turned off, the experience was the opposite of that. Stories of life undeniable human. Yes, driven by bitterness, anger and raw emotion. Impossible to  dismiss it as not deeply felt.

I do think “To Pimp a Butterfly” is unique. But I also believe that there must be much more in this Hip Hop world that has deep musical interest. Some time ago I heard Drake on SNL perform a song that was amazing though not really Rap. Rather an advanced and unconventional musical form. I hear similar musical threads throughout “Pimp”. I did get a CD of Drake. “Scorpion”. I also could not absorb it in my first listen. I look forward to the next, fresh listen. I did try to hear several YouTubes of some very successful Rap artists. They mostly lacked the interesting musical themes threaded through. “Pure Rap” with just the rhythmic words-not my cup of tea. But a musically valid form none the less.

 

 

mglik

Showing 10 responses by holmz

This list turned out to be not very "musical" and therefore not very listenable.

  • Slick Rick - The Great Adventures Of Slick Rick (Children's Story is a masterpiece)
  • NAS - Illmatic
  • Outkast - Stankonia
  • Beastie Boys - Licensed to Ill

The Kanye, Jay Z, Ludicrus, Missy Eliot, etc are full of musical themes and counterpoint rap that make them interesting.

"Without sounding like I am beating a dead horse, though, my only complaint with rap is of a musical nature. For the most part, it is too simple, poorly played, repetitive, musically trite for my tastes.

The problem I see, for my tastes, is if there ever was a subgenre of rap that fit my criteria for the music I like (high level of musicianship, complexity, nonrepetitive, deep and broad emotional and intellectual content, it would probably not even be identifiable as rap any longer."

No longer identifiable as Rap any longer? I do think the genre is pretty broad. Some cuts are actually sung!

IMHO - Rap sounds better with a philharmonic orchestra playing the music.

https://youtu.be/Uyc0Lnxf95M

@asvjerry there are not many groups that do the rap songs about retired (pensioners) protecting pole dancers… like the example I posted earlier.

@rixthetrick that esso is good,.. ta

@mglik 

But hey, I too am happy that this thread has not devolved into some quasi political diatribe. This is what happened to my several past attempts to start a thread about my desire to understand and enjoy Rap.

It took me a long time to abide it.
If I may make a few suggestions.

  1. There is a wide swath of what maybe considered rap.

 

Here are some things I enjoy:

  • “The Streets” album “A Grand Don’t Come for Free”. The album is laid out like an opera where each song are the parts of a whole story. And in that sense it is very good. The last song is brilliant with a rewind to offer two ways to end the story.
  • “Immortal Technic” “Mistakes” is a song worth a listen to (IMO).
  • I think group “House of Pain” may be considered rap. And I suspect that a bunch of Irishmen out of Boston also somewhat brought rap towards a larger following

A more recent finding was this: Whether it is spoken word, or rap… well… I am not too sure.
 

 

Well likely flying through SFO soon, so it seemed good to ask.

I don’t think I will be packing up a TT as luggage though. ;)

@larsman you know he meant the first rap song that was snuck onto the mainstream… (by a blond crackeress.)

@holmz - Hah! I see so much weird stuff on these forums that I DON'T know that!  🤔  I have no doubt that there are people who think that was the first rap song....I love 'Rapture' - such a haunting melody, and I like Debbie's rap, too! 

There is a channel in Australia called SBS (“Special Broadcasting Service”), which airs all the foreign news, and does translation services. It’s sort of like a combination of PBS and NetFlix. The news shows run most of the day, and the evenings are foreign films. Tour deFrance, Dakar, etc.

They have a sub channel called NITV (“National Indigenous TV”) and show a lot of Canadian and US indigenous and African-American programs.
It was only because I saw the show “The Evolution of HipHop” that I knew that.

She was actually a fan of G.M.Flash and I think some of the other groups in NY, like the Fabulous Five (and Fab 5 Freddy).

@holmz - More than just ’she’ - as the saying goes, ’Blondie is a group’!

Wow, I only saw one person all this time. 😁

I guess the “They” and “them” in this case is noun-verb coherence or agreement, and not political.

@holmz - No seriously, in the earlier days, the band got so tired of everybody equating ’Blondie’ with Debbie that they made up buttons saying ’Blondie Is A Group’....

When the lead singer is a stunner, it is hard to see that there is a group…

 

Old boss was telling me about his first date with his wife. They were in Santa Barbara and roller blading on the sidewalk. They passed a woman and fellow going the other way, and he said he just about fell over seeing the woman.
The (now) Mrs said, “You don’t see that every day!”
And he said, “I agree.”
She then said, “In fact I have never seen a one legged guy on skate(s).”
He said that he was surprized when he turned around and “shu-nuf” the guy was on one leg.