Is it possible to have Good Imaging close to wall


I keep looking for the best speakers to stand flush against the front wall and end up looking at the usual suspects: North Creek Kitty Kat Revelators, Allisons (now old), Von Schweikert VR-35, NHT Classic 4s, Audio Note AN/K, and other sealed or front ported speakers. But I have never understood how, even though the bass is controlled, they can defy the law of physics and image as well as, say, my great actually owned other speakers, Joseph Audio Pulsars, far out in the room? Is it physically possible for these flush mounted speakers to image as well?
springbok10

Showing 6 responses by o_holter

Nvp - my experience seems very different.
You critisise Mapman for thinking speakers should get a grip on the room.
>What you are saying is equivalent to saying that in order to >have good bass one needs to excite the modes of his/her room
and you go on to say this is not right.
Good speakers play together with the room. Simple as that.
First - Nvp and Mapman - sorry for using the critique word, possibly leading to a misunderstanding. We share the basic ideals and I agree with most of what you write. Indeed I want to hear the recording venue, not my room. My point is just, we can't avoid the room (at least not, with more volume, bigger speakers etc), so we must make it play along. The Audiokinesis Dream Maker speakers I got last year do it better than others I've owned (Dynaudio Consequence, Abrahamsen Fs401, Aurum Cantus, Proac clones, even Bose 901 in the 1970s) in my fairly large 20 x 27 feet room. But it is not exactly up against the wall. The best close-to-the wall imaging I have achieved, is with smaller bookshelf or desktop speakers, sounding best if "clamped" (from above + below) but I have given up on that in my main rig. Speakers have to stand 4-5 feet from the wall, or more, to sound their best. For a while, I used the Aurum Cantus L2SE - great nearfield listening (esp for the money), although not a serious contender in the main rig, but even these small speakers sounded best 5 feet or so from the wall (now, a good fit for my Ming Da integrated amp at the cottage). The Dream Makers perform the trick of creating, both, the room energy and the "big" music making - *and* intimate images, but they are best almost six feet from the wall, so this is somewhat OT.
Nvp:
"minimise the first order reflections and create a symmetric listening environment."
I agree. But James Romeyn, co-designer of new Audiokinesis speakers, has suggested one should try a bit of offset from full symmetry, like 1.5 inch (moving the whole "axis" of the system a bit towards one of the side walls). My room is a bit asymmetrical anyway, so it may not be needed in my case. He also suggested my sub (which I have to place close to the wall) would sound best with 90 degrees phase, which turned out to be right.
Mapman - sounds like a good conclusion.
I am not going to sell my Dream Makers anywhere soon. I have no commercial connections. I suggest you try to get the chance to listen. It is the best I have heard so far. I have not heard MBLs but I have heard lively Bang Olufsen speakers trying the same, Martin Logans, etc. I can only say, in my system, I was lucky to get the Audiokinesis speakers.
Mapman: I have heard Avantgarde two times at audio events, not in my room. The first was bad and not properly adjusted I think. The second was great, all my preconceptions about horns just fell flat. So I don't know, these may work even better in your context, than Audiokinesis speakers. But for me, in my context, I like these speakers better, they are not so totally horny if you forgive a phrase, there is more conventional driver action, which I like. They are more mainstream so to speak. So I feel no need to change.
I had some success with Daad3 bass traps. They dont catch much bass but help with lower mid and vocal - in my case - if placed three feet or so behind the main speakers.